SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

For some AP, they accept the love they think they deserve. They have such low self esteems they accept something they shouldn't.

For some AP, it's a competition. Even jealousy?

For some AP, it's about taking something that isn't theirs. So damaged and broken that they have no moral compass.

I actually feel sorry for the OW in my situation, he is living with her. She now has the prize she chased for years and finally 'won' him. I know for a fact he has hit her, he emotionally abuses her, he manipulates everyone around him including his own children. She has now quit her job and depends on him. Don't think she really knew what she was chasing for so many years. She has it now, she won a prize I don't want.

[This message edited by Bluebird26 at 1:16 AM, May 26th (Sunday)]

I agree with Bluebird26. They are "okay" with being the OW for many different reasons, but the competition factor, hoping to "win" the man away from his wife is one that stands out to me. Of course this is usually fueled by the man stringing them along, giving them hope he will leave his wife. And of course sometimes they do leave their wife for the whore on the side.

Other times it is a feeling of insecurity, low self-esteem, belief they will be alone for the rest of life, etc., and a woman (or man) will settle for a relationship where they have to share, where they may be second best, or whatever. But this also applies to the BS who is married to someone who continues to have someone on the side. While I have far more understanding for a BS that hangs on to a marriage when there is "someone else" involved, also hoping they will be the one to "win" the spouse away from the OP, I do think some of the same psychology comes into play.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 5:59 AM, May 26th (Sunday)]

I recently found out that my H's main OW actually told him she could never have a relationship with him because she could never trust him. That got me thinking about what she really wanted, why she was ok with being the sex on the side. I also know that they exchanged ily's. She was raging mad when they got discovered, but not because he quit talking to her (though she fished for about a month after). She was mad because I told her what she did with him was wrong and hurtful and NOT the way a friend should behave. That even if my H had started every advance, her responsibility as my friend was to refuse at the very least. The others, I understand. They were lied to. They were desperate. They thought he wanted them. But, I'm not sure I will ever be able to understand her mentality except to say that she was selfish. She wanted a dick and someone to fix things around her house. He had those things without the 'messiness' she associates with relationships.

Someone I know is an OW. She doesn't want a full time commitment from a man. She loves that he can't be in her face all the time. She and the man are in their 70's. She has a full, active life, and he's the icing on the cake.

Ironically, he wants more than she does. She will be horrified if he leaves his wife for her because she doesn't want him like that, and won't have him like that. I think he knows it and is terrified of being alone, so he'll stay married and believe his wife won't be hurt at all.

whensenough,

I'm wondering why so many people close to ME are ok with it. I'm talking about immediate family members and friends. I don't know one that hasn't been a knowing OW at one point In Their lives. It's hard for me to understand being surrounded by person OW, OM, WW , WH. It's scary.

Have you considered the possibility of mental illnesses? People with personality disorders (narcissistic, borderline) are more likely to lack the morality you have. People with bipolar disorder in a manic state are more likely to cheat. I mention it because these problems can be genetic, so sometimes multiple family members are affected.

If your family is like this, you may unconsciously choose friends that have similar traits. WH has mental illness in his FOO and it's given him bad boundaries for similar people.

WH's OW most likely has borderline personality disorder. Sex for her is not about intimacy at all--she runs from intimacy. Her emotions are always more intense and more important than anyone else's. She had no concern for me or even for WH--her sexual impulses come first.

Good for you for having integrity despite your surroundings. You must be a loyal and caring friend--can you look for more people who deserve you?

[This message edited by sailorgirl at 9:05 AM, May 26th (Sunday)]

I just wanted to comment on what Jrazz has said about the OW not knowing the hurt they were causing. The OW in my case was a BS, her WH left her for his OW. She had only been divorced for a couple months when she went after my WH knowing full well he was M to me with three kids. When I spoke to her when I just thought it was a EA ( before I found out I had an STD) she was so nice telling me they were just friends and she understood why i wouldn't want them talking and she had no problem cutting off contact, telling me what she had went through with her WH. It's so sick to me now that I know the whole truth. She was using her kids in the A and wanted my WH to be a father figure to her 11 yr old D. The second time I talked to her once I knew about the PA she told me she wouldn't stop talking to him as long as he would talk to her, and how she wished I could be a fly on the wall to hear the things he said to her Anyway to get back to my point this sick , delusional, pathetic, pos did know the pain and decided she was ok with causing it to any other family.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who are:

-weak

-stupid

-have no self esteem

-selfish

Stupid, because they believe something told to them by a know liar. Meaning, look, if a man came up to me and said that he was going to leave his wife, he has a terrible sexless marriage, and was Harding an affair from his wife, I wouldn't believe a damn word out of his mouth. Why? Because I already know he is lying to his wife. Why would I think someone who lies to others around him is going to be honest with me? Some people don't think that way. They just believe whatever is told to them, unfortunately.

Weak, because they are afraid of being alone. Weak because they continue to go back even though they want more.

Low self esteem is really what I think the root is. Lots of women don't feel pretty, and use sex as a way to try and feel better about themselves. "I must be all that and a bag of chips, I can get any man I want to. This man is MARRIED and he will sleep with me. I'm gorgeous." But really, if the woman felt pretty, worthwhile, and good about herself, she wouldn't allow herself to be used. And she wouldn't need to prove it by having meaningless sex.

And finally, the selfish factor: unfortunately, there are a lot of people with a messed up mentality of, "hey, I don't even know the BS, so why should I care about them?" Or even better, "I do know the BS/am "friends" with the BS, but these are my needs and they re more important."

Connect the dots, you have an OW.

Ow (and om) are broken people who either: a) genuinely believe what is said at face value and are just idiots who are very deep in a fog, or b) have such low self esteem that they don't think they can do any better

Further, the statement that you teach people how to treat you is so SO true about ow/om

To Whensenough's original question about a longtime OW.

1. Women get so caught up in "time investments" in a relationship, and OW do this out of fear they screwed up and wasted two to five years or their lives on stupidity, that they refuse to leave when faced with the worst crap and treatment. It HAD to have been worth it. it HAD to have been fate and soul-mate in order to have justified damage done, their own kids and lives ignored and put on hold.

2. You need to remind your friend, the OW, that at this point she's prostituting herself if she gets home-repair work from him for sex later. She could probably get better quality carpentry and plumbing from professionals if she just made the offer straight out in Craigslist - "Blow jobs in return for new crown molding in the living room."

Sadandempty,

And, of course, WS'es who continue contact after D-Day, are also the kind of delusional people "who did know the pain" and decided it was OK with causing it. Worse, even, what a WS does to his/her own family since they are hurting a spouse who has sacrificed for them in ways large or small (how many times did you stay up all night with a sick kid so HE could get some sleep, even though you had to work the next day, too? - or something similar?)

I'm only bringing this up because sometimes, a BS who over focuses on an OW with anger and outrage is doing so to not look more closely at the WS or at himself/herself and whether marriage can be better with self-improvement or if focusing wrath entirely on an OP can be a dodge.

What made me write this is knowing a BS, and while being in empathy with BS side of things, also realize this woman was a raging, judgmental, materialistic witch to others. Her husband should have separated first rather than do what he did. But her beauty and charm had worn thin on him over the years, and his obsession with her had cooled when he met kind of a normal woman whose kindness rather knocked him for a loop, and he realized life didn't have to be the way it was with his wife.

It would have done no good for her to demonize the OW when the issues in their marriage were as much about her own behavior as it was her WS'es choice to have an affair while in the marriage rather than have the decency to leave and divorce first, or to stand up to her first and demand she change and insist on counseling or he would leave.

[This message edited by Heavy Sigh at 10:57 AM, May 26th (Sunday)]

If your family is like this, you may unconsciously choose friends that have similar traits. WH has mental illness in his FOO and it's given him bad boundaries for similar people.

Sailorgirl,

I think your on to something. My mom and WS are both npd. And ive come to realize that i have been subconsciously surrounding myself with these types of people...for a long time. How lonely my life is now that ive come to realize that most of the people i thought were close to me are selfish and not very loving or dependable.

Heavy Sigh

1. Women get so caught up in "time investments" in a relationship, and OW do this out of fear they screwed up and wasted two to five years or their lives on stupidity, that they refuse to leave when faced with the worst crap and treatment.

I sometimes wonder how much of time-invested is my reason for the lil hope i have that we will work out. There are other things mainly the young kids that make me want us to work. and probably some deep rooted foo issues. but i am guilty of being that person at least in the past. In highschool i had a horrible relationship for 5 yrs but didnt want to leave because i had spent my "whole life" with him lol. funny when i look back my only regret is that i continued to waste more time on him. lol

All this feedback is really helpful. Understanding helps heal to a certain extent and I think there are some of us that dont understand WS OR OP thinking or have been trying to rationalize irrational thinking.

I dont judge anyone I dont know so if you are a FOW please feel free to add your input as well.

I just wanted to comment on what Jrazz has said about the OW not knowing the hurt they were causing.

I just wanted to clarify that I don't think is was so much "not knowing" the hurt they caused as not taking the time to think about it.

I mean, I was right there, APOLOGIZING and realizing that it was wrong, and then just went ahead.

I think there's a big difference between having no clue that what you are doing could hurt someone, and taking your brain to a space where you are intentionally oblivious.

Unless a WS has completely and effectively lied to an AP and kept their married life hidden (which I think is super duper rare), the AP doesn't ever get to be off the hook for "not knowing" what they were doing was wrong and hurtful.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 11:48 AM, May 26th (Sunday)]

For the same reasons that so many men are okay with being the OM.

People are people. Women have no special virtue just because they're female, that enables them to be superior to men in avoiding infidelity. As more and more obstacles to infidelity have been removed from women's lives (more mobility and job opportunity, increased ease of communication, less inequity in parenting time) their rates of infidelity have risen, and are now approaching the rate of male infidelity.