SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ugh I am so sorry. I know the feeling of hoping that maybe this time you will get the reaction, the love that is deserved in this shitstorm.

In the end it is up to you to keep trying or to give up.

I do really hope that in the end of it you find peace in all of this mess.

Please listen to me when I tell you this...

She rolled her eyes, huffed, turned off the TV and said what do you want. It hurt badly.

THIS IS WHO SHE IS.

There is no treatment for this unless she sees that she is actually the problem. Even then, I wouldn't be hopeful.

I spent YEARS waiting, hoping that my wife would see the light, that there was something I could say or do, or I could change myself enough to make it work. She will keep taking forever and doing what she wants sexually and emotionally.

I'm sorry but.Your wife sounds like a sociopath to me.

You and you girls need to get out.

Here are the seven tell-tale signs of narcissistic abusers.

1) No Empathy

These people truly don’t have the capacity for empathy. They do not have the ability to authentically embrace the experiential world of another person unless for selfish gain. In other words, these people can put on a good “caring” show in their effort to manipulate others for their own personal benefit. But they won’t and can’t stand in the shoes of another, genuinely.

2) No Remorse

These people don’t feel bad about any wrongdoing of theirs. Why? There is no conscience, no compassion, no concern about the impact of their behavior on others, even those they love. From the narcissistic abuser’s point of view, the other person deserves what they got because the narcissistic abuser is...

3) Entitled

These people hold rights—in their perverted thinking—that others would never assume. They live in a world in which they have privilege to that which is beyond your imagination. Whether they are objectifying you, raping you or ruling your life, they believe that they deserve what they seek, when and where they seek it because it is already theirs—before the ask.

4) Deceptive

They will tell you whatever they believe you need to know in order to get what they are attempting to extract from you. To these people, a lie is not a lie; it’s a mechanism to leverage outcome. A misrepresentation of information is the twisting of facts designed to convert another into compliance with respect to that which they pursue.

5) Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde

These people will project a persona that is 180 degrees from who and what they really are. Whether priest, doctor or politician, they are not as they wish to have you believe. For example, they can be an attorney allegedly protecting an elderly woman from financial exploitation; all while emotionally manipulating/exploiting her, by using her as a flying monkey/agent in a mission to influence the behavior of her daughter.

6) Emotionally Dependent

These people require the emotional support and admiration of their narcissistic supply as oxygen to sustain them. They truly cannot function naturally and normally without the object of their narcissistic abuse serving as the foundation for their existence.

7) Uses Battering for Control

And when their narcissistic supply is in question, battering becomes the way to level the playing field. It is their means to shift the power and control within the relationship. It’s their way to tip the scale, so they gain the advantage they need to feel on top again.

This battering may present as verbal abuse, emotional abuse, financial abuse, sexual abuse or physical abuse. It’s the striking/maneuvering intended to diminish and dis-empower so as to nourish the deficiency in oneself.

^^^^^ please read 1faith's post

One thing I have seen in a handful of NPD and one other sociopathic BPD, the truth does not apply to them. The truth is flexible, depending on their needs. They expect unwavering truth from others, even become militant about it, and then turn around and live double, deceptive lives for themselves. They are masters at creating their own version of what they want the truth to look like. They take self help books, blogs, and podcasts reccomended and use them like a weapon against others, further inflating their position of superiority. They often latch on to one catch phrase and make it their mantra to absolve any self reflection and try to prove they are not responsible for the chaos and pain they bring into a marriage, family or friendship. Even those with personality disorders who seek IC, often turns that "success" in therapy back on their partners. The blame shifting becomes legitimate because they hear what they want to hear from the therapist and what they want to hear is "it's all somebody else's fault". A phrase such as "you are responsible for your own feelings" becomes a dagger to use every time you react to being hurt. Instead of focusing on their actions that cause destruction and pain, they can now shame you for recoiling.

We had to cut out some toxic people from our lives, including my NPD FIL. The release of that burden feels like you can stand up straight and not be bent to their demands, lies, and selfish parallel lives. Living with a NPD in your life can change who you were meant to be. Wouldn't that be a shame to find out at 50 rather than 39?

One thing I have seen in a handful of NPD and one other sociopathic BPD, the truth does not apply to them. The truth is flexible, depending on their needs. They expect unwavering truth from others, even become militant about it, and then turn around and live double, deceptive lives for themselves. They are masters at creating their own version of what they want the truth to look like. They take self help books, blogs, and podcasts reccomended and use them like a weapon against others, further inflating their position of superiority. They often latch on to one catch phrase and make it their mantra to absolve any self reflection and try to prove they are not responsible for the chaos and pain they bring into a marriage, family or friendship. Even those with personality disorders who seek IC, often turns that "success" in therapy back on their partners. The blame shifting becomes legitimate because they hear what they want to hear from the therapist and what they want to hear is "it's all somebody else's fault". A phrase such as "you are responsible for your own feelings" becomes a dagger to use every time you react to being hurt. Instead of focusing on their actions that cause destruction and pain, they can now shame you for recoiling.

This describes her and her actions perfectly. Thanks for sharing. The more I read the more im understanding who im dealing with. I often asked how this could happen to me and my life, but she is not unique, there are many broken people just like her. I can see why people like her rarely change, they refuse to accept responsibility for hurting others because they are too busy being a victim. Engaging with her just feeds her victim attitude and makes her feel justified in hurting me more. Im realizing the D is probably the only course of action left. When I kicked her out all she could talk about is how lonely it was over there and how hard it was on her and how it was affecting her. I on the other hand flourished. When she would come over and start her victim bullshit, I would show her the door. This lead to her hitting herself and then hitting me, telling me to hit her (I never did),etc. When she was alone, her problems didn't suddenly disappear, the excuse for the way she acts was gone and she didn't like looking in that mirror. She told me last night she didn't want to move home, I pressured her into moving home. I was shocked when she said this. We had several MC sessions where we both expressed concerns about her moving in but she always ALWAYS talked about how it was hurting her not living here with us and that she wanted to live here. So she says she was pressured to live here, but she sure as shit doesn't get up and get out now for some reason?

[This message edited by dummyX8 at 12:29 PM, December 8th (Thursday)]

This describes her and her actions perfectly. Thanks for sharing. The more I read the more im understanding who im dealing with. I often asked how this could happen to me and my life, but she is not unique, there are many broken people just like her. I can see why people like her rarely change, they refuse to accept responsibility for hurting others because they are too busy being a victim. Engaging with her just feeds her victim attitude and makes her feel justified in hurting me.

Exactly! Keep reading. Keep educating yourself. But don't substitute on-line research for IC. Use them both together. That's what I have been doing. I have a much deeper understanding now with 3 years of IC and "research" (on-line, books, PD forums, etc).

One thing I did want to mention to you is "picking up fleas". This is a term used to describe what can happen when you are with a PD for years. You have 23? A PD's bad behavior can effect yours in ways you might not be able to imagine. Especially if you retaliate or stoop to their level and use the same bad behavior. I was with my own "special" PD among other's for 40 years.

Having a really good IC can really be an eye opener as to what is going on with you...which is where you need your focus to be.

It is very rare but I do not subscribe to a PD cannot change their behavior. I have seen it change and there are so many tools out there today to help them. BPT, EMDR, etc. But you have to be careful about getting hope that your special PD will actually get better or want to get better. I think as you are starting to realize it is a very rare thing for a cluster B personality type to want to get better.

There is so much that is misunderstood about PD's in general which is another reason you need to work with an IC who may specialize in this area. You can't rely on reading and researching alone as it's easy to jump to conclusions.

EMDR could also benefit you as it's used to treat PTSD. I have been diagnosed with complex PTSD and a dissociative disorder that both start in my childhood. There is even a new type of therapy called brain spotting which can be used in place of EMDR for those that suffer from dissociative disorders.

Really I'm no expert. I just have a lot of experience in this area based upon my own surroundings and what I went through. I don't want to jump to conclusions but really what I see is a lot of bad behavior and dysfunction from both of you. What I can say for certain is that this is having a dramatic impact on your kids. Don't be afraid to get them into IC even if it means they may mention some things about your own behavior. I have no doubt your WW's behavior will be mentioned. My kids mentioned my bad behavior in their IC. Yup. That's right. I'm not suggesting things to you that I have not done or experience myself.

When I first came to SI I was in the middle of a massive trigger. I didn't even know what they was at the time. I was full of rage. One of the things I was full of rage over was being on the front lines of my mother's A which is why in a back asswards way I started here on SI vs. the PD forums like Out of the Fog. The A is really a symptom of something greater which is true in your WWs case as well. That rage I had would come out of me and I would explode on my kids in scary ways. I never hit. Never spanked, but I'm sure the emotional damage I did was worse. I went red and would scream so loud at my 9 year old son. His misbehaving and treatment of my wife was a massive trigger for me and I didn't even know it let alone know why. Long story short, I first started here on SI, then moved to getting into IC (I was the last person in the world to go to IC and fought it for years), and here I am 3 years later doing much better with a toolbox full of coping mechanisms and skills that I learned.

If your WW is truly getting better and working on herself, she should be able to tell you exactly what she has learned, what her triggers are, why they happen, how to prevent them before she goes into a tirade, and how to calm herself down and self sooth when she does. I can give you those things about myself. I have learned breathing exercises, I have learned how to put myself in a time out, etc etc etc. Working through my CPTSD caused by many traumas but mostly by PD behavior from my mother has been a huge process for me. I've been able to sit with my kids, my family, every so often at the dinner table, and tell them exactly what I have learned and how I prevent myself from going into fits of rage. I have become a safer person, a better father and husband. I worked on myself and wanted to get better. I own my shit. In private conversations with my wife I talk about deeper personal things. She can see the improvement in myself.

If your wife id truly a PD and wants to better herself, these are the things she would be doing. You are not seeing any of that and sounds like she may be in IC for show? Dunno as I'm not you and can't see what's going on.

*As I suggested before and I can't stress this enough, get those kids into IC. Like yesterday.

*Get yourself into IC.

*Consult with an attorney and educate yourself on the law (guaranteed your WW is probably more educated in this area than you).

*Continue to educate yourself in behavioral health and how it impacts you and most importantly your kids.

You can do this x8

yop

How are you going today Charlie?

I hope the 180 is helping you focus on the next step you need to make.

There is no point begging your WW to try in your marriage. She doesn't have the skills necessary to be a good safe partner. This is evident as recently as attending the party even though she acknowledged it would hurt you and rolling her eyes (Google contempt in relationships) at you when you asked her to put the state of your marriage before the tv show she was watching.

Please save yourself and your daughters from more pain and start the ball rolling to end your marriage. You deserve to be a out someone who is able to love you and is able to be empathetic towards you.

You don't deserve the blame shifting and abuse that you are experiencing.

Really good day. Just focused on work and having a good time today at work. Basically just had a short text exchange with her today where she continued to exhibit little caring for me and continues to show no remorse and to be honest I don't really give much of a shit today. Tomorrow is gonna be a great day, have a Christmas party planned with some friends and coworkers. Not taking the WW, she hasn't earned the right to be by my side.

Good to know you are having a good day. Just know that you are on the emotional roller coaster. Some days are great, others are shit. Just warning you...

You don't have to answer this, but it's for you to think about:

What are you doing to get out of infidelity. Right now it seems you are in limbo. Start thinking about next steps for you.

Im working my way out of the disillusion that this is going to work. Im detaching from her, I have my funds for an attorney, I've gone as far as looking up the number and address of the one I want to use and with more detachment I will have the guts to finally just pull that trigger. Reading here has helped me tremendously and reminds me that I have to detach. Thousands and thousands of post here and the number one rule for WW seems to be NC and she can't even agree to that. Fixing a marriage after all these AP's is a journey of a million miles, and she can't even take the first step, NC. As I type that I can't help but literally laugh out loud. ALL she talks about is how she has changed, yet she can't agree not to see these men when I request that of her. Ya real change. Thats really not even my focus or concern at this point, I can't fix her or save her from herself.

It's sad but I feel guilty for focusing on myself, almost like im being selfish. The weight of all this pain and suffering she has caused has really taken an emotional toll on me, but Im starting to see the light.

Do not feel one ounce of guilt for focusing on yourself. It is time you do.

I am glad you are working on detaching, getting some clarity, setting aside money, and deciding on an attorney. Good.

Keep moving forward each day.

Strength to you.

How are you today?

Your WW seems to be deadest on portraying herself as a helpless victim / Tragic Hero .

BPD in all its splendor...

[This message edited by ivehadit01 at 4:50 PM, December 9th (Friday)]

I'm not sure how you can prevent it, you need to be aware that NPD parents are very capable of manipulating their children into hating the other parent. You need to see an IC with NPD credentials and experience to point you in the right direction concerning your daughters. I am very familiar with a close relative NPD who has ruined her young adult children by turning them against their BS father. The absurd lies they all three take part in is the substance of horror movies. The win at all cost battle knows no limits inside the mind of a NPD. You need all the tools you can muster.

What is blowing me away, is that your wife seems to think taking responsibility for ones feelings and working on herself precludes being kind and engaging in healing actions for you. Doesn't she realize in order for you to not be bothered by her continued disrespect - you'd have to detach and stop caring about her?

Unfortunately that's your only recourse...protect yourself. Detach and focus on you and the kids. I'm sorry you're being treated this way. Keep posting...we get it.

It takes a lot more than simply keeping her legs closed for a change in order to R or have a healthy marriage. No longer having sex with other's isn't the only thing about herself that she needs to change, yet she is acting like that should be more than enough even though it's nowhere near enough.

The two of you have been together for a long time. No doubt that you have gotten very use to your WW's specific brand of toxic dysfunction and extreme selfishness and refusal to take responsibility for how her actions and choices affect others. I get it. I got use to my WH's abuse too and he's full blown NPD.

Change is hard. It helped me to realize that I could not change my WH no matter how much I wanted and needed him to change in order to stay married. Until and unless he wanted to change, it wasn't ever going to happen because he refused to even realize that he was the source of the problems in his life for the longest time. He was the champion of blaming everything in life on me.

I dealt with his shit for so long that I began to believe that everyone was just like him. That's what he wanted me to believe anyway. And I've got to tell you, nothing was further from the truth. I have yet to meet anyone as dysfunctional and toxic as my WH was. When we were headed towards divorce, it was a complete shock for me to realize that the rest of the world doesn't treat people the way he treated me. It took me being totally detached from his toxic mind games for me to realize that there was much more to life than the crazy that he liked to create.

You'll discover that with your WW as well when you finally truly start to detach from her. Just remember that no amount of begging on your part is going to get her to want to change. If anything, that just makes her feel smug and more powerful because that continues to give her the upper hand in your life. Stop giving away your power to her. Stop giving a crap what she does or doesn't do with her life. Start dreaming of how good life will be when you finally stop surrounding yourself with her unyielding, toxic selfishness. Just remember that what you get with her is a package deal. Whatever good parts there is comes hand in hand with all of that lying, cheating, selfishness, cutting, punching you in the face, goading you to hit her toxic drama that your WW thrives on. Your WW has major issues and you can't cure her with your love. Nothing can cure her because she can't even acknowledge being responsible for how her choices make other people feel.

For your sake, I do hope that you take measures to protect yourself. Having the money for an attorney is a step in the right direction, but there's nothing stopping your WW from hiring him out from underneath you if you don't call to set up an appointment.

After reading both threads, it is painfully obvious your WW is very self absorbed, avoiding what she has done to you and family. In her mind, what she did is no big deal, no compassion, no remorse, and absolutely no regret. After 8 plus affairs all she can do is roll her eyes and blame you for not doing more.

Quite honestly you have gone above and beyond, and are no dummy. She is the dummy. In fact I would say you are done with that life, and she is dummyx8. Plus all the affairs before, including those who turned her down. She is a pariah.

Be strong, be vigilant. Your STBX (I hope) is delusional and has no clue what she did is wrong. Definitely BPD, and narcissistic with a full helping of sociopathic behavior.

Focus on you, your family. Let her dangle in her self made hell.

Listen and heed the great advice here, you deserve much better. Period.

Best wishes

[This message edited by Killian at 6:09 PM, December 9th (Friday)]

Hello. Most of what I was going to contribute has already been shared. I do have a couple of thoughts, though...the first is that what you allow is what will continue. I am glad to hear that you are starting to stand up for yourself. In your first several posts, you seemed to me to be passive-aggressive (I.e when you sat in your chair for days waiting for her to notice you and ask something, etc.) That is my typical m.o. from the past and I recognized myself there. I.M.O. counseling would be good for you and your children. Maybe even family counseling, with or without your wife. I wish you much strength to deal with this. Worry about your self and kids. Your wife needs to do her own work. If she won't, that's not on you. And practice good self care!

I get how hard that next step is for you. The last 22 years have been about your WW. You have spend most of your adult life not having needs or feelings to keep the peace. Learning that you matter is a big lesson. It will take some time and a lot of IC. Your girls need IC too, they need the skills to see unhealthy behaviours and how to deal with them. They need you to be the sane parent. The one who is there showing them healthy boundaries and what living in a drama free house feels like. You need to show them the normal so they know what is unacceptable. They need you to give them a home free of walking on egg shells so they know how to live in peace.