SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey x8...I'm a BS who is married to a serial cheater. I've been through alot of sh!t myself, and don't let anyone undermine what you are going through by suggesting that if you don't do it their way then you are not worth talking to. You will do what you are going to do...and isn't it great that you always have a place to come to and vent, or help others with what you know, or just listen to someone else, even if you can't help. You may never be done on this rollercoaster and that's your decision.

One thing I will say is that it seems you and your WS may have fallen into a routine of this. My WS and I are the epitome of how things go when you rugsweep. He does his shit. I get mad, We fight, I throw him out, he comes back and the episode reruns itself a year or sometimes less later. You aren't alone in the fact that you haven't made a decisive move about leaving. You have made a decision and that decision is to stay. Currently. Doesn't mean it won't change tomorrow, but currently there you are.

I don't know if your WS is going off the deep end and ready to "trap" you into crap, or if she's just still entrenched in this A. Sounds to me like a typical WS move. (Like I said I've been through a lot). Purposely escalating a fight so that he/she can find a reason to vacate the premises so he/she can talk to/spend time with OP. TYPICAL TYPICAL. Don't believe that she was just with her "friend". Also, her late night departure from the home cause she needed to clear her head and walk in the park alone...translates to above. Same BS...meeting OP or talking to them.

You see when you went to counseling your poor fragile wife didn't like that counseling didn't go the way she thought it would, so now she needs OM and fantasy land even more. Cause in LaLa land she is perfect. "Oh boohoo, can you believe the counsellor sided with my BS???? I mean I'm perfect, look at me??!?! Aren't I AP???" Whatever...

The mistake you made was going to counseling with her. It was a power move on her part. She was probably hoping you wouldn't go because she wasn't really planning on going.

I encourage you to do get a VAR, it will be hard, I understand that thinking something is true...and then actually finding out 100% it's true are two very different emotional events. One you can still trick your mind into "nooo...it's not happening". The other forces you to face the facts and forces you out of hiding. I understand both, very welll.

No matter what, I truly believe that knowledge is power, it doesn't mean the end, but it means getting to the botttom of this sh!t sandwich and allowing you to make more rational decisions based on proven facts.

Hugs again, know you are not alone. I understand.

you need to completely let the marriage go. There is nothing to save.

If you do VAR and you're in a state that requires both parties consent, since she reads here, and sees this as an opportunity to "get one up on you", you must get in the practice of saying at the moment she tries to talk with you, you must hold up your hand and say, "for my own protection I am recording all conversations so if you decide you still want to proceed, then you are by default consenting to be recorded."

Otherwise, do not talk with her - count on her recording you too. Your outbursts, and she might even include her color commentary narrative on what you are doing when you're not talking, so avoid being around her at all. Get your lawyer to help you kick her out as quickly as possible. None of this waiting for Christmas excuse.

something really bothers me.

You have admitted to hitting your wife, your daughters too. You have admitted to screaming at your wife for hours at a time.

you went to MC that is an hour's drive away. she wanted out of the car and you allowed her. You left a women who is bpd an hour from home with no way home.

you do not hear from her for three hours with absolutely no concern for her welfare.

i am seeing alot of red flags one a lot of dots to connect.

is it possible that your ww is telling some of the truth.

leaving her stranded is a huge concern.

Rambler, if you read his posts you would know he slapped her once years ago when he first found out and he spanks his kids which is not against the law. He hasn't hit her since and she admitted she was lying.

I've had first hand experience with people with BPD saying abuse happened when it didn't. My MIL tried to blow up Thanksgiving one year by claiming her stepfather, a frail old man much shorter than her, held her up by the throat which is physically impossible. To make matters worse, she had a history of grabbing her own kids by the throat. The abuse is projection.

According to Dx8 - his WW asked to be let out of the car. He didn't kick her out of the car. She's an adult who requested he let her go. He didn't leave her stranded - she obviously had the resources to get home ...she's not some hapless waif.

dx8 , how are you doing today?

Rambler , even she corrected that in one of her posts : he slapped her once after he first found she slept with one of his friends 17 some years ago ( which he used/uses as an excuse to let her emotionally and physically abuse him since then). And yeah , he spanked his kids , which is not good thing but not that uncommon .

[This message edited by ivehadit01 at 7:25 AM, December 15th (Thursday)]

and she has continued to perpetuate the abuse song, without any clarification, so it goes...

You have admitted to hitting your wife, your daughters too. You have admitted to screaming at your wife for hours at a time.

you went to MC that is an hour's drive away. she wanted out of the car and you allowed her. You left a women who is bpd an hour from home with no way home.

you do not hear from her for three hours with absolutely no concern for her welfare.

I have admitted to slapping and pushing my wife once 17 years ago. It was the biggest mistake of my life, one that I have owned up to, regretted and never repeated. I swore I would never do it again and years later after we had kids I was even more resovled to never do it again. With all the physical abuse before this and after this that she has done to me, the punching, hitting, pushing, in private, in front of the kids, I never ONCE layed a singel finger on her or pushed her, NEVER AGAIN.

As far as spanking my kids: I beleive that there is a certain age that spanking children is appropriate. I have twin 12yr old daughters. I have spanked them in total about 8 times ever. One daughter hasn't been spanked in over 3 years, the other got spanked 2 times in the last 12 months. We have a counting system (your on a 1, ok your on a 2, ok your on a 3) and then a time out system where if we count to 3 you go to time out, if you don't got to time out I spank them on their bottom with my hand. I don't beat my kids, I have never spanked them with anything but my hand, and it has been a rare life occasion. The only reason I even brought up the spanking was to say that my wife said in MC I shouldnt spank the kids when in fact she herself spanked them 2 weeks prior. Im a principal who deals with 9-12yr olds. I have never spanked a student once. I refuse to because I do not think it is my place to spank another persons child. When parents request me to spank their child I refuse, tell them why, and offer them a paddle to do it themselves. Some do, some dont. Spanking takes trust. My children know that when I have spanked them that they have had many opportunites to correct their behaviour and they chose not to. There is always a talk after about how we got to that point, how to avoid getting to that point, and how much I love them and do not like spanking them. Agree or not about my philosophy on spanking my own children, I don't really care. Just know they are not beat with wire hangers, locked in closets, or spanked because they spilled milk.

My wife DEMANDED I stop the car and let her out because she didn't want me talking to her. Not yelling, not calling names, not putting down, but speaking words. The words were "do you agree with what the counselour said about you going to the party". She demanded I stop the car, I did. She opened the door, I asked her what are you going to do walk? And she said yes, so I said fine, get the fuck out then. My sister and 21 yr old nephew lived 5 mins from where she stood. She chose not to call them but rather her whore friend who lived an hour away. I was in contact with her by phone. Told her I loved her, told her to be safe, told her to let me know if she wants me to pick her up or if there was anything else I could do for her. She said no. When her friend picked her up, she didn't even come home first, they went shopping first at Walmart for ingredients for her friends cheese ball reciepe.

I did scream, I did call names, I did act like a child for 4 hours. No excuse, just let my emotions and hurt feelings get the best of me. The differnce between me and her is that I wont come here with my angel wings and halo on and act like im perfect. Im not, im struggling, im hurt. She is the one who wants to be like "ya I cheated (and just leave it at that, not tell all the gritty horror stories that she did) but look what he did 17yrs ago, oh and he spanked our kids (so did she), people don't like it when kids get spanked right????"

[This message edited by dummyX8 at 8:57 AM, December 15th (Thursday)]

You're being abused , this relationship is toxic , and your WW WILL never change because this is who SHE IS ( a sociopath), so you should accept that and put an end to this marriage once and for all .

Also , I know this is not a parenting site or anything, but don't spank your kids or don't let your WW do it either .

Both of you. Don't use punishment OR Rewards or any other kind of bait to get them to do what you want . It just doesn't work and will only make them resent you in the long run.

If you want them (or your WW) to change , it has to be an internal decision . Just talk to them , understand them and where they're coming from and calmly let them know , in a language they can understand , how and why what they're doing is bad .

[This message edited by ivehadit01 at 8:48 AM, December 15th (Thursday)]

you know, it doesn't really matter who is right or wrong. She can divorce you for abuse, whether you've abused her or not. You can divorce her for adultery whether she's cheated or not. She can divorce you because she can't stand the way you cry when she cheats on you. It doesn't matter. Eventually you get tired of the game of who's most at fault and who gives a fuck.

You've had good advice here from a variety of perspectives and experience. She's had good advice in Wayward from a variety of perspectives and experience. Most people here have formed their opinions about who's done what to whom and why and what should be done about it. Who cares! So what?!

Ultimately my friend, it boils down to action, one way or another. It's not what you think about things, it's what you do that matters.

You have all the evidence in front of you. You need to make up your mind about who you are and what you want to do. hoping things will change is wasted emotion. You need to make the change, one way or another.

good luck.

Sage observation by Mike7

You're right, ivehadit. This isn't a parenting site. There is a massive difference between loving discipline and abuse. I suggest you read "Dare to Discipline" by Dr. James Dobson.

Getting back to ...

...just walk away like nothing happened to me....

No one here is telling you that. No one is saying that you haven't been through - and are still going through - hell. We all know that walking away is traumatic, but it's also freeing, when it's the right thing to do.

And it sure looks like the right thing to do in your case, for you and for your kids. If your W is, in fact, a borderline who won't get treatment, it may be better for her, too.

Have you looked at the D/S forum here? Doing so may help.

I know your future looks bleak, and in the present you're in excruciating pain. If you don't make some change, the pain continues. If you do make some changes, your immediate future remains bleak, but then the skies clear, and life can be very good, indeed.

I understand you want your marriage to work.

Other than IC, what is she doing to become a safe partner for you?

I know she's not NC with her affair partners.

Did she get tested for stds? Did you see the actual results from the doctor?

Is she transparent? Do you have full access to everything? Does she have full access to all of your stuff as well?

Does she answer your questions without blame or anger?

Is she NC with friends who knew, and condoned the affair? I know you've mentioned the one cheating wife that she hangs with...are there others that she refuses to go.NC with as well?

(You should tell that woman's husband,btw.)

Is she doing anything to show you she is not the same woman who had eight affairs?

There are some very basic requirements a WS must Want to meet in order to even attempt reconciliation. Not comply..but want to do these things. Is she doing any of them?

Charlie no one is advising you to just walk away like nothing has happened to you. In fact it is the opposite. You are being advised to get a D because of all that your WW has done to you. She has inflicted great trauma and abuse on you. She is damaging your girls. You are in an abusive relationship. You are being advised to walk away because your WW is still going to continue to abuse you.

You can't R with an unremorseful spouse. And your WW is not remorseful at all.

I get what you are saying though. You want your WW to acknowledge that she has abused you. You want her to validate your reality. But Charlie she isn't going to do that. She can't do that without admitting that she was at fault.

You know the truth. You know that you have suffered. You know your girls are suffering. For today that is enough. Own your truth. Act on your truth.

[This message edited by HardyRose at 5:25 PM, December 15th (Thursday)]

Did she get tested for stds? Did you see the actual results from the doctor?

Is she transparent? Do you have full access to everything? Does she have full access to all of your stuff as well?

Does she answer your questions without blame or anger?

She got an STD from the first guy she cheated with 17yrs ago.

She was transparent, now, she doesn't like to talk at all. I talk and talk and talk, ask questions,etc and her new response is "I don't want to talk" and she just stares at the tv or the floor.

When she came back home she put tracking apps on our phone as she said it would ease my mind. Twice now she has left the house and left her phone too which is usually glued to her face like a 16yr old girl. One of those times she said she just simply forgot it, and the other time was the other night where she went to the park because she said she was upset and she said she left it on purpose because she didn't want me to call or talk to her (I was in bed when she left). I don't have access to her work phone which is what she used to call all of her ap's weekly. She has full access to my phone, but not my work phone or computer. My office is a lot different than hers, She has like 4 other people at her firm where I have about 30 employees and about 200 kids and I have people coming and going all the time that im there.

You can't R with an unremorseful spouse. And your WW is not remorseful at all.

This is becoming crystal clear to me now.

[This message edited by dummyX8 at 5:06 PM, December 15th (Thursday)]

Your wife isn't stupid. Most women,if they went to a park, in the middle of the night,would at least have their phone,in case of an emergency...like someone attacking her...or any number of things. Forgetting is one thing. Purposely choosing to make yourself vulnerable is another.

She left that phone because of the tracking app. She didn't want to talk to you..she could've sent you to voicemail. She could have chosen not to respond to your texts.

She either wasn't at the park...And if she was...she wasn't alone.

Does she have access to your private messages here?

[This message edited by confused615 at 5:21 PM, December 15th (Thursday)]

Does she have access to your private messages here?

Ya we use the same PC at home.

Start logging out when you leave SI. Change your password so she doesn't have access to your messages again.

Man....you need to stop thinking with your heart..And..gently...Start using your brain. You absolutely must start protecting yourself.

[This message edited by confused615 at 5:26 PM, December 15th (Thursday)]

Touching on one time

If someone had a ONS they still committed adultery, they are still and adulterer.

The impact on the Bs is just as great as a Lta.

your minimizing has the same impact as as the ws would have

to change behaviour you need to change the stimulus.

you have a very stern disipline toward your daughters. i suspect that carries over in your interactions with your spouse