SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

What is your definition of insecure? I ask, because it matters. It's a broadly defined word so....

It IS nice if someone notices you are off or down, but it's not required to live. The person best equipped to deal with this is you. You know what your struggles are intimately, and with work and insight, what your issues are.

There's a lot of things that are "nice" like having a mature relationship with someone who values you, but it's not required or the lack thereof giving you license to cheat.

You didn't get into an affair overnight. Chances are very good you were groomed during your childhood to perceive others and yourself a certain way and you've avoided dealing with those issues (especially since your entire marriage has been lacking in this area). It's going to take a lot of work and patience with yourself to get to where you need to be.

Sure it would be nice if your husband was wired that way (hell it would be nice if more people were that way), but believing others should be just like you are (you mentioned you do it) is just not realistic. The point is changing how you see what you must have to be happy, to doing those things for yourself and allowing others to just be who they are.

I would bet that he does things for you because he loves you to show you he loves you, but because it doesn't fit the way you want to feel love you discount them.

If there is man sized hole in my boundaries it was only big enough for OM and has since been sealed and bricked up.

OM lives about 3 hours away and we have no similar circles. He travels for work and has some accounts in my area but his BS keeps H and I up to date if he comes up this way.

I was fogged in with OM....he made me feel good but since DDay I have learned how much he lied to me...so yes..i hate OM

So I should just deal with my issues by myself and not lean on my husband and just let him be who he is? I accept him for who he is. I am perfectly capable of dealing with my issues on my own, but dealing with them on my own made me feel isolated and when OM cane around I let him in when I shouldn't have. So isn't something to work on working on feeling more comfortable talking to H about my issues?

"I accept him for who he is."

Sorry, but, nope. If you did, this wouldn't have happened in the first place. You really need to ask yourself if your husband is the person you want to be with. You have continually stated that the OM had "pieces" that your husband doesn't have. Are you willing to live the rest of your life with your husband, and without these "pieces", because it hasn't worked out well so far. Also, are you willing to live the rest of your life with a husband that now feels completely inadequate. Your sex life with your husband may, at some point, return to the "normal" you remember with him, but he will always feel second best, if not worse. This has changed him for the rest of his life, whether he admits it or not. This is the power you gave the OM, not your husband.

Muttmatch- tell us about your FOO (family of origin). Tell us about your mother and your father. I think you will find your soul by delving into your upbringing. You are a product of your own family. It's something for you to explore in IC. It's something your husband cannot change. It's something for you to consider and come to a place of understanding deep within your heart.

One thing at a time. You can tell him what your M problems were prior to the A, but you can't expect him to start trying to please you and your needs right now.

Your house is burning down. Are you going to rearrange the furniture, or put out the fire? After the fire's out and you've secured the place, then you can remodel.

You write only about yourself and what do you want. If you dont belive me go back and read it yourself.

Just look how you described OM.I got a picture he is the best man in planet Earth with amazing skills in bed,wtf. On the other hand your husband is some weak dude who is only good for baby sitting.

Also blame shifting is huge.Noone deserves to be cheated on and especially not your husband.He went through hell just like you did and now he is even in worse position.Once you felt like your marriage was in trouble you went looking for OM (old boyfriend). Your husband trusted you and stayed with you and your little sons. You went looking for affair.

Tell your husband what do you want in bed.If anal makes you have a big O then tell him...

Your A and love of your OM's sexual "skills"

added to the lust of the A and lack of reality and fog of the A, flushed your H's sexual self esteem down the drain. Affair sex will always be better because of the thrill of putting one over on your spouse. Too bad he also has to know the OM

He has mind movies about your A with the OM. and in the mind movies, he will not see a faceless OM.

What have you done to put your H and marriage first ahead of the OM?

Did you call up his wife and tell her about the A?

Did you help your H get revenge on the OM? How?

Did you call the OM's employer about the A? What about the OM's other affair partners, did you tell his wife about them?

Did you tell his wife about all the bad things he said about her?

What action have you taken to put your H in front of the OM?

Or are you still fondly thinking about the A and protecting the OM?

What can you do to help your H and his lack of self esteem? If he is so rotten in bed, he will not take kindly to your teaching him the tricks of the OM. You could set him up with one of your friends and have her give him lessons. He might like that. He would not have the mind movies playing in his head like when you are with him.

Your were able to have fun and have fond memories.

maybe give your H some fond memories to go along with the mind movies.

Do try thinking about his mind movies. Think of him having a long affair with one of your friends.

It will help you realize some of his pain.

hope you really can look at the A from his point of view.

You have continually stated that the OM had "pieces" that your husband doesn't have. Are you willing to live the rest of your life with your husband, and without these "pieces",

Yes, I do not believe any two people are ABSOLUTELY perfect for each other in every way. I have also said that we are so compatible in more ways than I have been with anyone else. OM was good with 2 small pieces, that is it. H and I are a better match than anyone else.

Your sex life with your husband may, at some point, return to the "normal" you remember with him, but he will always feel second best, if not worse. This has changed him for the rest of his life, whether he admits it or not. This is the power you gave the OM, not your husband.

H knew that OM was the best sex I had ever had..that didn't interfere before. I don't ever expect "normal" again. I want to build a better marriage not the same one. Better means working on the missing pieces I have as well as what he needs to feel safe with me.

Tell us about your FOO (family of origin). Tell us about your mother and your father. I think you will find your soul by delving into your upbringing. You are a product of your own family. It's something for you to explore in IC. It's something your husband cannot change. It's something for you to consider and come to a place of understanding deep within your heart.

I had a very different life as a kid, but not traumatic. My father ran oil fields and we moved every three or four months. I have one younger brother who is happily married to his middle school sweetheart. My parents have been married for almost 40 years but it isn't a first marriage for either. (mom was married twice before when she was very young and dad has 5 kids with his first wife that he married when he was 17) I don't know anything much about the first marriages besides through third party talk there was infidelity. My parents don't talk about their past much. I know my moving around a lot has had me develop a strong independence from others emotionally. I never had a best friend or even a close friend. I reinvented myself every time I moved to make friends and fit in. I have trouble getting emotionally attached to people. My parents are wonderful though right out of school I resented them and got married right out of high school to a very large and soon to find out, very abusive man. I was married at 17 (just like daddy) and it didn't take long for the physical abuse to start (no signs of this while dating) I was putting myself through college and dealing with the abuse on my own until I was able to get him out of the house. At that point I spent my time between college, work and hiding different places so that my husband couldn't find me. That was when I dated OM because he lived on Martha's Vineyard and he wouldn't have found me there. I didn't tell OM what was going on, I didn't tell anyone, until I met my current H. He was in college as well. After spending time with H...I confessed everything about being married and hiding from him and that all of my struggles I had been hiding from him. I stopped seeing OM and H and I have been together ever since. He helped me get a divorce...his family took me in. When my lawyer said I should leave town because they were serving divorce papers and they were worried what my XH would do...H took me on a 3 month cross country trip. It was amazing. He saved me in more ways than I can count.

One thing at a time. You can tell him what your M problems were prior to the A, but you can't expect him to start trying to please you and your needs right now.

Your house is burning down. Are you going to rearrange the furniture, or put out the fire? After the fire's out and you've secured the place, then you can remodel.

Yes! I very much agree with this. I need to fix the mess I made first and the pieces that are missing that caused it will be something that we work on as well. I just don't want to ignore them and sweep them aside, because they are issues I have. I have to understand them and my faults to make myself better for him.

This one is gonna be hard...

Many men can't handle knowing that their W enjoy sex with another man over them. If he can't reconcile this aspect of your A with himself, your marriage is pretty much done for.

You'll get plenty of good advice here. I wish you luck.

Your A and love of your OM's sexual "skills"

added to the lust of the A and lack of reality and fog of the A, flushed your H's sexual self esteem down the drain. Affair sex will always be better because of the thrill of putting one over on your spouse.

Too bad he also has to know the OM

He has mind movies about your A with the OM. and in the mind movies, he will not see a faceless OM.

He doesn't know OM personally, just from what I have said about him.

What have you done to put your H and marriage first ahead of the OM?

during the A...nothing...I never put my marriage first, I was doing what I wanted and not thinking about my marriage. I have sent a NC email to OM and helped H get in contact with OBS so he could let her know. I have done whatever I could do to help H and put our marriage first.

Did you call up his wife and tell her about the A?

Did you help your H get revenge on the OM? How?

I gave what contact info I thought I had to H as he wanted to be the one to contact OBS. I don't do revenge. It's petty

Did you call the OM's employer about the A? What about the OM's other affair partners, did you tell his wife about them?

I ended contact with him and his wife was told. I could care less what happens to him at this point. As far as I know and was told, there were no other partners.

Did you tell his wife about all the bad things he said about her?

He never said bad things about his wife.

What action have you taken to put your H in front of the OM?

Everything I can think of. I talk to H about everything on my mind (good and bad). I support H and do sweet gestures to show I care. He knows where I am and who I am with at all times. I check in often and with affection.

Or are you still fondly thinking about the A and protecting the OM?

I am not thinking fondly of the A. I think about the A and feel awful, sick to my stomach. I am absolutely not protecting OM. He deserves any bad thing that happens to him and I could care less. He lied to me and deceived me.

What can you do to help your H and his lack of self esteem?

I would love the answer to this!

Muttmatch - I know it takes courage to be post on here and be vulnerable. I commend you for that.

I think the emotional connection for you would lead to better sex because quite frankly female sexuality is a lot more complex that male sexuality. It is so much more emotionally driven. I think if you fix the first one, the second one will naturally come into place.

If I may I really think the issues seem to be in close proximity to a fear of real intimacy or self value/love/respect.

OM was easy because you could "pretend" to be whoever you wanted and if he rejected . .well ok. He never had to see the parts you wanted to keep hidden. You got to pick and choose "Who you were." You could put your best self forward. With your H you have a real life and you can't pretend all of the time. He sees the good and the bad. That scares you. You are afraid he will one day figure out that you don't deserve him and he will abandon you. You can't "fake" being who you are with him. Pushing him away keeps he in the M, but at a cost of a real relationship. That is something to explore in IC.

With your H he sees all of your faults. Every single one of them. So to protect yourself you put up a wall. Too much to risk because you feel unworthy. Let me tell you right now whether you are worthy of him or not is not something you can control. It is a judgement he has to make. Right now he is there. He clearly thinks you are worth the effort. As a guy he wants to "fix," the issue versus listen and empathize. This is a common problem the mars versus Venus thing.

In those times you need to be clear that " I really just need you to listen, empathize and let me get out what I am feeling." You have to be comfortable asking him what you need and communicate in a way he will understand. I'd bet that if you gave him a road map he would follow it.

At the same time If he has tried and you stone wall him he has learned to give up. He can't fix it and the failure and rejection he feels cause him to put up his own walls.

You both fee "safer," but no one feels connected.

Just my .02 on your situation. I really think IC will be good for you. As much as you put responsibility for those issues on him there is more work you need on yourself before you are going to realize it is a dynamic both of your share and need to own.

I'd bet if he was honest the intimacy for him is not all that great right now. He feels disrespected. Men highly value respect in deeds and not words. If given a choice most men would opt for respect versus love. Respect is earned and is more highly prized. Love is given and has a much lower cost of entry for most men.

Good luck with IC. Your H clearly wants to be M to you. Respect him by taking that at face value without any pretense.

MM.

you said you hated the OM because he lied to you.

What did he lie to you about?

You said your husband knew OM was the best sex you've ever had before,and it didn't interfere.

However,what I don't think you understand is, it will interfere now. Because you cheated on him with this man.

It will interfere in every way.

I know my husband had sex with other women before me. That never bothered me before. But having sex with one while married to me? That matters.

I don't think you have any idea of the trauma you have caused your husband.

You said earlier in this thread that your husband thinks you're perfect. Now that you've cheated, that's not true. And if he is still treating you as if you are, then it's out of fear.

[This message edited by HellFire at 9:25 AM, August 10th (Thursday)]

numb&dumb

Thank you. These words are accurate and very helpful.

you said you hated the OM because he lied to you.

What did he lie to you about?

I felt very deeply connected to OM. Felt he understood me and that I was special to him. We talked constantly via text. He told me I was the only person he could talk to...after H spoke to OBS, she had caught him texting with another woman besides me. I was very emotionally invested with OM and I have ALWAYS been good at reading people and to know he deceived me like that, I feel very stupid. My H called it the "fog" but I believed OM when I shouldn't have.

Hellfire

You are correct...that is why i continued that thought with I don't ever expect to go back to "normal" I have done permanent damage and I understand that. I may not be able to put myself in his shoes or be able to feel the pain that I am very much aware he is feeling. That doesn't mean I am not trying. I very much understand what I have done and do not take it lightly at all.

My husbands world has come apart because yes, before DDay he thought I was perfect, I hated that he thought that but N&D is right...it wasn't my choice to judge how he saw me, or how he sees me now. He I have lost that "perfection" in his eyes and that seems to hurt him a lot as well.

[This message edited by Muttmatch at 9:42 AM, August 10th (Thursday)]

Also to add because this is something I relate to all too well.

Putting my W on pedestal was something I did. The thing I did not realize that while I thought it showed her that I loved her it also set a standard so high that she felt she could never measure up. I ignored the faults and elevated the positives. She believe it to be fake therefore she doubted my love as words I supposed to say because I am her husband. While I can say it was genuine on my part, my wife knew she was not perfect and stopped being that person. Everything I put her on the pedestal it eroded her self esteem. Real life became a lie.

She desperately wanted to be perfect as I unknowingly set that expectation. She could so she escaped where she thought she could be.

Being on a pedestal sounds nice in theory, but creates expectations that most people can ever attain.

It begins to feel false after awhile as the individual "knows" that aren't who their spouse sees them as. It begins to be a trust issue and it forces some pedestal spouse to escape that feeling of worthlessness.

Nobody is perfect and no one in a M is without faults. No one. Refusing to see them and not address it in a "I love you despite your faults," is a house of cards that can't handle real life.

after H spoke to OBS, she had caught him texting with another woman besides me. I was very emotionally invested with OM and I have ALWAYS been good at reading people and to know he deceived me like that

I find this very perplexing. While you were in the A, in your mind it was ok for you to step out on your H, but you were hurt that your AP had another OW? But him being married didn't bother you?