SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

sisoon

To this BS, kissing is sex. I would bet a lot that I'm not alone in that. You can keep denying your minimization, but - you're minimizing your A

Exactly why I said, not that it matters before stating that it was a kiss only. But. to my wife, it did matter and ultimately I think it would have been more difficult to recover from had we had sex.

Maybe I am minimizing but I don't mean to do that. I'm just explaining my story. And my story is that the PA stopped with kissing. Maybe that's irrelevant to you but it's still my story.

Waitedwaytoolong - thank you, I appreciate your response.

I have to say there's no way you're truly in R or healed. You're basically defending the AP as well as yourself.

I have to say there's no way you're truly in R or healed. You're basically defending the AP as well as yourself.

You obviously haven't read most of what I posted. I get that the thread is a long one but you've missed a lot if this is all you heard. And I'm starting to get pissed that you feel you can tell me I'm not truly in R. I've said we have more to get through but we go to MC every week and I go to IC every week. You have no idea what my wife and I have put into reconciling. I'm not defending anyone here, but I will defend my marriage and the work we are doing together to heal. This is the kind of post that does nothing but try to tear down someone who is honestly doing their best. If you'd read my posts, you'd know that.

Rocket,

I have not read the last few pages of this thread. However, you got me thinking about compassion today.

When I wrote or write specifics on the thread about my husband’s affair, I feel those emotions so fully. The affair and aftermath of DD was extremely traumatic.

With all he did and the way he acted; while waiting to see if he could truly change...I did not want my children to see a bitter marriage. I have tried so hard to not cringe in front of my children.

This thread brought me to a place of existing almost two years ago.

While, I wouldn’t label what I have for my husband as compassion now. Sometimes, I feel sorry for him. But he brought this on himself.

I don’t know what your timeline or your wife’s timeline for healing is. I don’t want to argue about your life.

What I can say is, your wife sounds pretty amazing. I am sure you count yourself extremely blessed.

[This message edited by Iwantmyglasses at 4:40 PM, March 29th (Thursday)]

She is beyond amazing. I'm grateful for her everyday. She has seen me at my very worst and stuck by me when she could have easily left. I'm horrified at what I put her through. I will carry that with me forever but I'm learning a lot and luckily she's willing to walk through this with me and we are even happy a lot of the time these days.

I went back and read...

I too asked my husband why couldn’t he just stop at kissing. Why take a MARRIED woman up to his room. Oh BTW this AP valet parked. She didn’t park in short term hotel parking. But valet parked.

Anyway, for two people not to know each other....the sex, the planning to divorce the spouses. (5 week affair 1 week of Which he was in a different state and another week we were on family vacation.). Anyway...while we were on vacation. She was texting my husband her initials combined with our last name. They were getting married. For real.

I agree with Waited Too Long. Stopping at kissing...telling me...very different than discussing marriage in a 5 week affair.

Also, no matter what my husband felt about me, he had ZERO right to take another man’s wife. To me this shows such a lack of respect for other human beings. He is an entitled male.

[This message edited by Iwantmyglasses at 4:46 PM, March 29th (Thursday)]

I think all WS have a disrespect for the others involved, including ourselves. I lived in two worlds where i justified the closeness I felt to my AP. Where I convinced myself she was just a friend. Or that I could control things and "figure it out" so no one would get hurt. Even justified at the end that the PA part was minimal so it didn't really matter. All of this was messed up thinking that really caught up with me. I was living a lie and when D-day came, it was awful but also a relief. Finally she knew - I wasn't alone in it anymore. She was angry as hell but she stayed and we slowly worked through it day by day. One thing I have found in my situation is that my wife had/has more trouble with the emotional piece than the physical. Maybe that would be much different if the PA had gone further. But it was the emotional piece that wrecked her. I feel if the situation were reversed, the PA would be harder for me but I don't know and I will hopefully never find out.

Please don't mistake my post as derogatory. I merely stated what you wrote as defensive b/c as BW that is how it reads to me.

I applaud you for working in IC and MC. I said what I said b/c in my mind you are defending AP and yourself. As a matter of fact, most of your responses seem a bit defensive. Defensiveness is wayward behavior.

I agree with IWMG, your wife must be an amazing woman.I wish you both well as you travel this long road.

I have the same take on the defensiveness as Shellbean, fwiw.

She was texting my husband her initials combined with our last name. They were getting married. For real.

SMFH. 5 weeks... unbelievable.

Lazurus - no clue what you're talking about. That's not a quote from me. Context?

He is quoting me Rocket.

Exactly why I said, not that it matters before stating that it was a kiss only. But. to my wife, it did matter and ultimately I think it would have been more difficult to recover from had we had sex.

Maybe I am minimizing but I don't mean to do that. I'm just explaining my story. And my story is that the PA stopped with kissing. Maybe that's irrelevant to you but it's still my story.

I'm confused. You say there was no sex, but at least some BSes think kissing is sex.

I think you'll have problems with what you read here unless you accept kissing as sex. (That doesn't mean you have to accept it; just that you'll have problems with what you read here unless you do.)

I also think there's a disconnect in your R if you think kissing isn't sex, and your W does. You and your W really need to get onto the same page - either kissing becomes nothing to her or sex to you.

Are you sure your W isn't rugsweeping? Are you sure you're not encouraging rugsweeping? (Those are questions you need to ask and answer, but not necessarily on SI.)

Sisoon. You’ve not read my posts. Never said my wife and I aren’t on the same page. No intimation that we view kissing as ok or differently. Seems to me some folks here want people to be worse off than they are. You hear a success story that doesn’t match yours and it must be fake. Discussed this with my IC today and she agreed. This is a place where some may get help but for me it’s just a place where those without true knowledge or education in marriage counseling steer others down the wrong path. Especially those who are doing well. Not going to keep doing this. Funny, I came back to this site thinking I could help others. Happy with my situation and I’ve felt worse everyday while participating in this dialogue with those who have zero knowledge of my situation. Glad for my wife, MC, and IC. Good for those who get something here but I’m not seeing it. Better to talk through this with professionals and my wife.

[This message edited by Rocket80 at 12:07 AM, March 31st (Saturday)]

I've read most of this thread, but it's pretty long. I will say in defense of these other people that it's not that we want others to "be worse off" than we are. Far from it. I actually stay away because when I see someone who was doing well come back here and they've been handed a new piece of truth that was withheld from them, or discovered yet another betrayal or lie, I get physical and emotional pain. I feel so bad for so many of us.

I think what people are saying is that it is almost impossible for you to have fully reconciled in a year. No one wants to believe the 2-5 year healing timeline, but person after person slowly comes to realize that this timeline is pretty accurate in most cases. Because almost no WS gives up all the info on Dday, and because the pain is unbearable. Even if you're not cheating anymore, just the realization that the person you loved most in the world is capable of doing something to you that you would NEVER have been capable of doing to them is enough to mindfuck you for a year. If she's just moved past the pain of all this in one year, she is truly remarkable.

But oftentimes we see people here who rugsweep and just don't "deal" with the A at all. Because it hurts less that way. And you can carry on like that for quite awhile. Until one day, the BS just can't. And all the sewage comes bubbling up to the surface.

I think that is a very distinct possibility when couples seemed to heal super fast. So people here are extremely cautious when this claim is made.

If you're doing well, great. I really hope your wife is not putting on a brave face for you. Because if that's the case, it will have to be addressed at some point. I really hope she feels as you think she does.

Maybe it's just me? But, I can't help but notice how much this OP's opinion of SI and even certain, unique phrases he uses remind me of banned member UnforgivenOH. Just an observation.

I didn’t read all the responses but it sounded to me from the first page that you are missing a key fact. Maybe your AP was a mostly nice person who made some bad choices one time and then reformed and confessed and went on to do good in the world I have no idea. But not all APs are created equal.

A lot of us HAD compassion for our WS and AP in the beginning. And we got STOMPED for it. So when someone says “I miss my AP” we know exactly what follows that: the WS goes back for more. Mine went back for more about a jillion times while I was just full of so much compassion and understanding for them. He also blamed me for all of it, and made up stories about what a nightmare I was to live with and that I was abusive and cruel, all while I was working my ass off to put things right and forgiving BOTH of them for everything.

They did not care, because what they really wanted was to lie to themselves about the kind of people they were and justify their actions. It sounds to me like you’re saying that what you did was not as bad as I or other members think it was, and your BS agrees with you. That’s great for you guys. If you’re so happy, what do you care what we think?

It seems impossible to be R in a year. Hard to believe that someone could be. He did state he is still a work in progress though.

But, just to point out and play the devil's advocate some IC have a much different approach to healing. My IC pretty much let me go and didn't hold me accountable saying that "Because I wanted to" was a good enough reason to give and needed no further counseling. Dumb ass that he was. So much for having an education. Stopped going to that one.

My wife's IC was focused more on just some "positive outlook" shit and figured if I didn't beat her that I was a good guy and should stop looking to the past to clean up. Gave her the advice to "not push me away with her anger". Some counselors are like that. Just focus on love, compassion, and "we all just get along" and keep our "eye on the prize". IMO those type of counselors were all about rugsweeping. They just focused on coping skills. Not cleaning wounds or really changing and finding whys. They sucked. Just focus on the future. Maybe that works for some people. Not for us.

Our MC made us really work and held us accountable. She cleaned out the whys and had me owning my shit.

Anyways we have no idea how well his IC and MC work. And, though it seems crazy when you do get years out for maybe most of us there is compassion for the AP. Sorry, I don't have it. Indifference for me. My wife though does have compassion for my APs. Though my wife's character is very nurturing to begin with. I can see how she got there in her healing journey.

Then again, I have seen couples here do and say what is going on here and the BS comes back saying it was all BS and nothing has really changed and they RS. Not too long ago in fact. Can't remember their names. The wife was the wayward. She came in and posted a thread that basically said how BS should treat their WS with more compassion and "nice them out" of the affair, which works better than the 2x4s and 180. Got angry that the other BS told him they were rugsweeping and he should leave. She hated SI. Yeah, he came back and verified they had been rugsweeping when his anger hit and realized that he played into his wife's complacency.

Maybe your AP was a mostly nice person who made some bad choices one time and then reformed and confessed and went on to do good in the world I have no idea. But not all APs are created equal.

Yep. Not to mention the fact that while your wife knew of or for most had in her life-the AP was not a nice person. She was who all cheaters are when they are cheaters. Intentionally cruel. Why should a BS look at them differently at the that time? Does it really help the BS to make that mental mind jump when in pain? IMO it really is about the WS or the WS that is someone's AP attempt to feel better about themselves so they aren't facing the shame from the consequences of screwing someone or a stranger over. That isn't the BS or OBS responsibility. In his situation it was easier to move on for his wife maybe because she knew the AP and was able to find the grace to forgive because it meant something to her. Hard to imagine we cheat on great woman like that for someone worth less.

Rocket - here's the thing. I don't know you, your life, your A, your wife, not a thing. All I know and any other participant knows is what you project through your words.

Nobody wishes ill will for your and your wife. In fact, quite the opposite. What we do know is what we felt, what we experienced AND what we've learned through thousands of posts and comments from people just like us in terms of infidelity.

I've learned through my own experience and reading these stories that infidelity is a big deal emotionally - it inflicts trauma into our souls (both WS and BS) beyond imagination. BECAUSE of this, people are weary and feel strongly they don't want anyone to experience unnecessary suffering or to prolong it in any way. The message may be delivered bluntly, but its intentions are for the most part altruistic.

FWIW, my perception is that you do get what you did but there still is defensiveness in your comments. That's something for you to embrace and understand, and to discover why you feel the need to defend yourself. The act of having a relationship is not the problem if the two parties are unattached. The problem with infidelity is the actions tell your spouse or partner, the one you vowed to be with forever and to forsake all others, the one who thought that security lies with you, that none of it is true AT ALL. It rips every piece of our bodies to shreds and we're left on the ground in a bloody pulp, picking up the pieces and rebuilding ourselves just to be able to breath. It is profound, it is debilitating and it is nothing less than cruel.

The imperative here is for both of you to understand this to your core. Nobody can make you understand it and perhaps you feel you have. But when somebody states that an affair partner who willingly chose to conspire to inflict such life changing harm to someone else is really not that bad, it infers this is no big deal and it leaves the readers feeling like the severity of your actions are not understood.

It really is that simple. But sometimes simplicity is the hardest thing to face particularly when it means self reflection in a completely unvarnished way.

Good luck; I'm glad you've healed and found a great therapist to help along the way.

[This message edited by ISurvivedSoFar at 9:39 AM, March 31st (Saturday)]

You’ve not read my posts.

Gently, Rocket80, I have, and I've picked up possible internal contradictions in them that you seem to have missed. The fact that you reject them so strongly makes it more likely that they're really there, IMO. I think you're selling yourself a bill of goods.

The goal here isn't to feel good quickly. Rather, it's to do the work you need to do to recover for long term authenticity.

It's often the message that one most strongly rejects that offers the biggest payoff. That may be what's going on here - but then, maybe not. You're the one who gets to decide.