"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

Alyssamd24 posted 7/9/2013 18:10 PM

I read a post in the Just Found Out Forum the other day and haven't been able to stop thinking about it. Much of it hit a nerve with me because not only am I the WS I am also the OW....something I haven't really focused on until now.

Many of the characteristics described unfortunately fit me well....these are some of the things I am working on.

But the term affairing down has stuck with me..the OP is a woman, so her examples talk about the characteristics of the OW and not of the OM.

My question is do both men and women affair down or is it more common for one gender to do it? I am interested to see what others think about this!

aesir posted 7/9/2013 18:24 PM

Standard BH disclaimer here.

That is about the third or fourth iteration of that long running motivational thread I have seen here. The older versions were more clear about the character implications when someone is willing to be an AP, and that it does not matter how successful, good looking, kind, attentive, brilliant, the AP is, or even if they glow in the dark and their farts produce rainbows, there is a serious character flaw.

One brilliant member of this forum once explained about not really liking her AP, and described it something like this. When you are married and decide to have an affair, unless you can keep your marriage a secret, your dating pool is severely limited, and everyone in it has proven they are in some way defective if they are willing to get involved with a married person.

I suppose if this is really a step down depends a lot on your spouse. If you are married to a child abusing serial killer, then it probably isn't a step down.

Alyssamd24 posted 7/9/2013 18:32 PM

I realize that anyone who is willing to become involved with someone who is married is considered a step down....but what I meant was all the other attributes....education,career,personality traits, etc.

I am curious to see if there is a difference in the genders

authenticnow posted 7/9/2013 18:34 PM

H and I are madhatters.

We both affaired down in the ways you mention.

I don't think gender has anything to do with it.

aesir posted 7/9/2013 18:48 PM

IMNSHO you are looking at superficial things.

There are at least 5 people reported to have had affairs with Princess Di. I really doubt you will find someone here who approves of their choice.

Alyssamd24 posted 7/9/2013 18:50 PM

Lol. Just a simple question

Aubrie posted 7/9/2013 18:51 PM

anyone who is willing to become involved with someone who is married is considered a step down

If this ^^^^ is the case...

but what I meant was all the other attributes....education,career,personality traits, etc.

Then what the crap does all this ^^^^^ matter?

My AP was a college graduate, works in IT, owns a music studio, is a polished singer/musician, has soft hands, and dresses in a suit every day. Yeah....so?

My husband managed to graduate from high school and earned a degree from the School of Hard Knocks. He is a self employed blue collar Dude. His hands are calloused. All he has known his whole life is hard, physical labor. He rarely wears a suit, even on a Sunday.

I still affaired down. None of the "details" matter. My AP knew I was married. He still chose to cheat with me on our spouses. I don't care if the guy is a freaking rocket scientist. He's still broken.

There is no gender difference. Any person that will choose to have an affair always affairs down. Period.

ETA: I don't think any of this is "lol".

[This message edited by Aubrie84 at 6:53 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]

momdaughterwife posted 7/9/2013 18:56 PM

BS here. JMHO- but yes it's always the case in the ways that matter to me. I will admit that to cope with it I must believe that myself. I can't imagine it's a gender thing. Affairs are all different yet the same in so many ways. KWIM? I suppose in rare cases where the AP didn't know the WS was married- there could be a BS who doesn't see the AP as a step down. Maybe.

Alyssamd24 posted 7/9/2013 19:07 PM

Look I was just asking a question. I'm not trying to piss anyone off or insult anyone. I was curious that's all.

20WrongsVs1 posted 7/9/2013 19:09 PM

Am I wrong, or does the term "affair down" compare the BS to the AP? I've always assumed so, and yeah, in that case it is a resounding yes.

The other characteristics of my APs have been a source of consternation for my BH, because one's rich and the other is a musician. But what does it matter? When they signed up on Ashley Madison, they became scumbags. They aren't honorable men who put their families first, like my BH.

"If they're not better than me...why?" BH asks. Because the fault was within me, not you, only me.

Yes I affaired down. Absolutely.

Alyssamd24 posted 7/9/2013 19:11 PM

Twenty;

Silly question...What is Ashley Madison?

cs2384 posted 7/9/2013 19:12 PM

I really struggle with reading the other forums on this board and the OW bashing, because I AM that person. Or at least I was. Not sure how to shake that label. I know to some woman out there I'll always be the OW.

But yes, we do always affair down. My AP was a doctor and well educated. He drives BMW's and paid for all sorts of things. But I affaired down. My marriage had MAJOR issues. I dealt with it in almost the worst way possible. I affaired down because my husband has never had an affair on me. The AP's BW can't say that(neither can my husband for that matter :( ). I was at least his second OW. There were probably more. My husband has stuck by me through all the garbage I put him through. The AP high tailed it out of there when things got rough(thank heaven). So degrees, money, looks. It doesn't mean much. I later found out through a mutual friend that AP got his credentialing taken away so he can't practice medicine for a while. So yeah. I'm pretty sure my husband is the winner on all accounts.

Darkness Falls posted 7/9/2013 19:31 PM

About the superficial things: no, not always the case.

About the character issues: almost always the case.

As others have pointed out, in a perfect world, the character of a person should always supersede those other "superficial" aspects of one's makeup. And yeah, I agree, it should. But this is an imperfect world, and things such as looks, education, intelligence, money, status, athleticism, etc. are important to people---to some people, they are more important (or seem to be) than one's character.

I used to be one such person. I paid a lot of attention to the "outside"---my looks, my intelligence, where I went to college, how much material stuff I can acquire---I didn't really pay much mind to the person I was inside. I regret that now.

Deeply Scared posted 7/9/2013 19:33 PM

Look I was just asking a question. I'm not trying to piss anyone off or insult anyone. I was curious that's all.

I'm not sure where you're reading that anyone is mad or insulted...people are replying to your topic and sharing their thoughts

JustDesserts posted 7/9/2013 19:54 PM

Guilty. Big time.

My BS is the picture of integrity, heart, love, selflessness, caring, empathetic, hardworking, successful, unpretentious, loyal, loving, grounded, smart, funny, witty, sexy and sweet. And that's just the inside. Her exterior is beauty personified...glowing, radiant, graceful, and a turner of heads. From the time she graduated college until the day we met, there wasn't a single guy she dated who did not ask her to marry him. My BS is class and grace personified.

My xAP is a mediocre human at best. I'm ashamed to admit the qualities I projected onto her in order to convince myself she was some sort of special princess. Like me, she needed and craved external validation due to HATING what she saw in the mirror every day. She is a broken, damaged liar, as am I, and also capable of astonishingly cruel and hurtful behavior, as am I.

I affaired down. And if truth be told, I guess my BS can say she "husbanded down" when she married me. At least the me that did what I did. The me that somehow lost sight of how damn lucky a man I am. Yup, I affaired down. And anyone who would deem me affair worthy has already affaired down themselves.

It takes two to affair down. Two sad, broken people.

badchoice posted 7/9/2013 19:59 PM

It takes two to affair down. Two sad, broken people.

Well said. Sometimes when I see or read these threads I forget that I too am the AP to some BH out there.

20WrongsVs1 posted 7/9/2013 20:05 PM

Alyssa, AM is a dating site for married cheaters. Seriously. That is how I met my APs.

Bobbi_sue posted 7/9/2013 20:32 PM

I feel this is "true" when one defines affairing down as the negative characteristics that lead them to cheat and is often viewed as "true" for situations where reconciliation takes place in the M.

I am one that does not blatantly and flatly agree that "they always affair down" because I do think that sometimes people are thinking of those external characteristics, looks and accomplishments, etc. But Aesir made a point with his extreme example:

I suppose if this is really a step down depends a lot on your spouse. If you are married to a child abusing serial killer, then it probably isn't a step down.

IMO it does not have to be that extreme. I feel that drug abusers, alcoholics, lazy jobless (by choice)leeches and many other people can be just as bad as the type of person who cheats, and all those characteristics would be deal breakers for me in M. Because the BS might have all these bad characteristics is NOT a reason for someone to cheat on them, but it can be a valid reason for their spouse to want to end the marriage, and in such situations it would be a far better choice to divorce that person instead of cheat on them.

But my real point is that people have faults and I don't categorically place all cheaters below all other people, no matter what their faults might be.

So even though in my case, I actually feel that both my H's affaired down in every imaginable way, I think every case is individual and will not make a blanket statement that they "always" Affair down.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 8:42 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]

aesir posted 7/9/2013 20:43 PM

Well I just picked an example that everyone could agree on that I don't think would apply to any members here (though I may be wrong, the site is anonymous). Exactly where that line is for each person I will not begin to speculate.

broken81 posted 7/9/2013 21:03 PM

My WH affaired down on ALL levels.
But on the flip side HIS AP affaired down in that MY WH didnt give a rats ass about her. Never cared, gave her a thing, she truley was nothing.
She had someone at home that LOVED her.
In all superficial ways MY WH would beat her BH.
Younger, handsome, better job, more money, nicer house, etc but none of that really matters in a relationship...you want someone that loves you not to be used and thrown to the side.
No matter how they affair down its still affair down on both sides.