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User Topic: Well-Spouse Affair Feedback
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Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did. I quoted it. It's actually what changed my mind. Started with her putting her foot down.

Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth

Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
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Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm on my phone, I apologize, can't do this very well

One of the reasons why we have sex much less than earlier in our relationship is because I put my foot down and said: "I am not doing this any more when I don't feel up to it. If it hurts, I'm stopping, whether you're done or not. I'm not going to continue to approach sex like I'm going into battle." Once I put myself first in that aspect, we really started having problems."

Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth

Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
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Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You feel Mary did a bait and switch? I don't get that at all, UO. It seems from the post that Mary's medical issues started to become more complicated and that she realized that she shouldn't have to suffer so much pain to please her husband. My take.

BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson

Posts: 9797 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
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Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry, UO, didn't realize you were on your phone and it would be difficult for you to find the quote. I can't respond at all on my phone. Too hard. You did good, though!

BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson

Posts: 9797 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
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Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

*****I put my foot down and said: "I am not doing this any more when I don't feel up to it. If it hurts, I'm stopping, whether you're done or not. I'm not going to continue to approach sex like I'm going into battle."*****

I got the impression from this statement that Mary's husband may not have been being 'considerate' of her limitations and wasn't being sensitive to whether the sexual action was creating discomfort or pain to her. Nor do I get the impression that he is *willing* to attempt to find a way for the 2 of them to have sex in a way that is 'least' painful. If she's just being treated like a *hole*, then I can understand why she would have made the statement that she did......

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

Posts: 8075 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
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Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not sure how you got that impression, gonna, as her posts states the exact opposite. How caring, gentle, sensitive to her pain. How he felt even worse about hitting a sore place.

Regardless. The narrative confuses me, so I gave my opinion and I'm out.

Wish for healing and peace for you both.

Thanks, sister. I wen the extra mile for you.

Seriously, I'm so dumb with this stuff. The apple "genius" asked why I didn't get a bigger phone. I said the size was fine because it fit in my pocket. He meant memory. DUH

Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth

Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
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Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, I am going to try not to make any assumptions or projections or whatever and just go by what is posted.

This interstate romance is certainly not going to accomplish the stated goal. Those of us who have ever had to deal with distances can tell you categorically that once every week or two would be be incredibly awesome, something we could only dream of.

Airfare back and forth 2 to 4 times a month, let alone per day, would be financially ruinous. So would the idea of hiring a professional, whether they be a certified sex surrogate or meth addict of the street would also be financially ruinous at the frequency described.

The way I see it, there are only a few possibilities.

1) Status Quo.
2) Divorce.
3) Turn a blind eye and let him do whatever. This will likely lead to #2 eventually, either by your choice or his as he forms emotional relationships with whoever. Most of us here can honestly say that our marriages went to shit during the affair before we found out about it.
4) Embrace the situation and fetishise it. Place ads on the sex only dating sites (there are lots of them, every third click when downloading movies actually)and he be honest about it. You could even place the ad as a couple with something along the lines of "Looking for a woman to fuck my husband." An ad like that would actually get a response. You might even find someone who is into the whole french maid thing as a kink and at least get your house cleaned in the process. Rent out a spare room in exchange for sexual favors. Consider joining a swingers club or something, you don't actually have to have sex yourself with those clubs, but they would insist you know about it. Whatever method you feel most comfortable (least uncomfortable) with. It looks like you will have to be involved somehow if you go this route, since he doesn't seem to be able to handle it on his own in a manner keeping in line with the stated goals and boundaries. Just make sure that there are no secrets about what is going on, and it does not become an actual relationship, if he starts to get attached to the person, then it is time to end it.

Whatever the option you choose, please add in at least one rule and respect other peoples marriages, and avoid going the route of any of the affair/bored housewife needs cock, or whatever type of sites and ads. Don't involve anyone who is already involved in a relationship/marriage unless their partner is also aware of and approving of the arrangement.

You are free to choose any of those 4 options, or one that I missed if you can think of it. I only mention this as something for you to think about while you try to sort this out.

Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.

Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
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Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You have all written a lot while I was offline - let me try to respond comprehensively. Sorry for the novel.

I would like to call out that SisterMilkshake and lauren123 are coming the closest to understanding this complicated conudrum. I would like to give a summary of my health history so you all can get a handle on the big picture I've got going on. I am NOT looking for sympathy. Just appreciate is the complexity, please.

1. Endometriosis with scarring and adhesions diagnosed (dxed) at age 18
2. Hormones permanently thrown off because of how my endometriosis was treated with BC pills for 20 years - my body cannot maintain a normal level of testosterone, so I must supplement. Finally dxed at age 40. I see an internationally lauded specialist for this.
3. Poor immunity from childhood resulting in a propensity for all sorts of colds/flus and vaginal infections. This was probably a precursor to my final presentation with CLL.
4. Chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL), most likely cooking since 2006 as white counts have been rising slowly since then. Presently, symptoms are fatigue and a greater propensity for infections. Add in anxiety as this is currently an incurable cancer requiring very careful planning before treatment is started. Long term treatment tends to cause infections or secondary cancers which kill the patient. I am currently in the planning stage and may be for several years. Dxed at 40. I see the world's top specialist for CLL.
5. Perimenopause - wacky periods, PMS for weeks, all that stuff. This shit just started this year.
6. Pain from an accident 7 years ago where I broke my left hip, requiring pins/plate and leaving me stiff/painful in that hip and with a large sensitive scar.

I have chewed through dozens of drs in my lifetime and believe my health care team at this point to be absolute top notch.

What was your sex life like while you were dating?

It was better. 12 years ago, I was much more capable and willing to put up with pain. At that point I just had endometriosis, the start of the messed up hormones, propensity for infections and occasional fatigue. I was excited to be with my new boyfriend - the "new relationship" fire was hot. I could manage about 3-4 times a week. Keeping up that pace became a marathon that would never end. About two years in, I began to get sicker and my ability to have sex declined. We talked about it all the time. Sometimes calmly, sometimes upset. He encouraged me to keep seeking doctors who wouldn't just throw a script at me and get frustrated when I didn't get better. He knew I couldn't keep up long before we were married. We started seeing ICs and MCs in 2003 to address the tension the sexual mismatch was generating. We felt we could find a way to overcome the mismatch.

We married in 2006. I broke my hip 5 months later. After the accident, my general state of health began to decline faster. More pain, more infections, more anxiety and exhaustion from the constant discomfort and upset over being 35 and having to struggle so much. It was around then when I put my foot down about not forcing myself to have sex any longer.

Next quote:

Then there is the fact that they do have intercourse 2-4 times a month. Will you two still have intercourse or any sexual relationship? How often is he going to be seeing this "other" person? Once a month? Once a week? Everyday? Sounds like your husband would want it everyday. Not likely if he has to fly to see her. Expensive if you are paying pro's.

Our agreement is we will have sex as I feel up to it. Previously, in MC, we'd tried to agree upon a consistent commitment of 2X a week. I tried hard to meet that commitment but could not. I found I was making choices focused on preserving my ability to have sex, rather than actually live my life. That was no good.

We did discuss frequency but he could not articulate what he wanted in the context of seeing another person.

It sounds like you have been to many therapists. I believe you even saw a sex therapist. I find it hard to believe that they would think there isn't a "problem" when someone masturbates to the point of pain. Have you checked these people's credentials?

Yes. Extensively. I fact-check as a hobby, LOL. I just counted them all up - we have seen a total of 10 (3 MCs, including the sex specialist, 3 ICs for him, 4 for me, and not counting the one I saw prior to this relationship). I find it hard to believe the same issue can be worked on with 10 professionals and they all come to the wrong conclusion.

Several of my ICs have posited he has narcissist tendencies. I do agree very much with that. So does our MC. The man loves attention more than anyone I know. Discussing it with him is quite another story. Most narcissists can't be convinced they ARE narcissists. I do believe we have more work to do here, for sure.

Was he sexually abused as a child?

No but he has experienced abandonment by his father, who bugged out when H was 4. Dad was present in his life thereafter but he was an awkward, disengaged dad and H had a lot of anxiety and anger when visiting. From what I can tell, H's mom was overwhelmed with caring for her 2 small sons, one of which (my H) who was very stubborn and willful, and the other who was very meek and anxious. Mom wasn't great with boundaries/accountability.

Poor boundaries?

I am only his second long term relationship and I quite firmly believe I am the first woman in his life who has tried to enforce accountability and boundaries on him. Some of the tantrums thrown over setting and maintaining reasonable boundaries (like not talking loud on the phone when I'm trying to sleep) have been... shall we say... EPIC. Complete with panic attacks and screaming fits. Needless to say, I refused to engage in "helping" him through the panic attacks/fits and that stuff stopped quickly. He hasn't done that in a couple years now.

So... to wrap this up:
1. He's got a physical need I can't and won't ever be able to meet, but there really are still unresolved emotional issues at hand. Respecting boundaries/rules/agreements sounds like the cornerstone.
2. I am going to talk to him but first I need to figure out how to broach it. Good news is I have an appt with the MC this Thursday and will get her feedback.

Lauren123 thank you for your suggestion about a possible way to talk to him. I thank all the rest of you for the time you've spent with me on this.

Aesir, thank you for the summary of possible options.

If anyone makes it all the way through this post I applaud you for your fortitude!

[This message edited by MaryContrary at 2:59 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]

Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013
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Default  Posted: 2:07 AM, September 23rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Haha I've never been told I have fortitude before

I think considering the stakes it's obviously really stressful. I've learnt that it's all about the delivery and it seems to be very undervalued.

However you bring it up it will make him defensive. You just want it to be the least offensive as possible.

Personally I don't think the contract that has been written up is viable for your relationship.

It shouldn't it be someone he/ you know. He's swimming in dangerous/ stupid territory with facebook.

Your dedication is commendable and you sound like an extremely strong person. Your husband also sounds like he needs to be a bit more sensitive to this issue but I think it's commendable the way you said he has supported you.

So that in consideration, the delivery is key.

Good luck!

OW1 inadvertently let me know WH loves English breakfast tea. Never ever saw him drink it. And I never will.

Posts: 818 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Australia
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Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello all:
I wanted to fill you in on what has transpired since my last post.

I mentioned earlier in the thread my H has been telling me odd little facts about dreams, and last week he brought it up again. Telling me about this girl he's dreaming about and how uncomfortable and upset the dreams are making him feel. I let him go on about it until he ran himself out of steam, then I asked, "Are you sure you don't have something you want to tell me? These dreams sound very specific."

He hemmed and hawed a bit and after another gentle probe, came out with "Ok she's real, she's a girl I've been talking to on FB."

And that very naturally let to me saying, "You know, you left your FB open the other day on the iPad and I saw some of your messages. This is your opportunity to tell me what's going on."

And he did. I was FLOORED.

No screaming. No crying. No defensive anger. He was clearly relieved. I was very surprised by his level of calmness and his ability to remain "in conversation" which in previous difficult discussions has been very challenging for him. He also explained (again I was thankful I was sitting down) that he's realized what he really craves is validation with no past history in the way (as in, being perceived as a person without flaw). Validation from me doesn't scratch his itch, because I know his flaws and imperfections.

So, for the first time in 13 years, I feel like he's articulated the root of the problem from his perspective, rather than trying to blame it on our physical disconnects.

I feel like we've passed a milestone and may be on a better route than before. We have cancelled our agreement as he's admitted it's not about the physical element in the end. That is progress... how far it gets us remains to be seen.

Thanks again for all your advice - I found myself referring back to things said in this thread during our conversations which helped me stay calm and focused. Cheers, all!

Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013
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Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is he still going to communicate with the girl on facebook?

Is the girl married?

FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.

Posts: 7678 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
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Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm so happy that you guys got the chance to talk, really talk deeply about the emotions and feelings that were hiding under all of the sexual incompatibility stuff. I hope that this is a new beginning for you, communication wise.

Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012

Posts: 4926 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
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Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, October 1st (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wowza. Bless your heart, Mary!! Big hugs to you. You are a strong woman, and I admire you.

Posts: 11 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: SE US
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