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roarlouder posted 1/21/2014 05:36 AM

We were on the road. Last night I looked at his phone and he had cleared his browser history. He admitted to looking at her profile. We didn't argue, but I explained how that made me feel.
I may have pushed, I told him if he wasnt going to be happy with the life I wanted then to man up and admit it. He said he doesn't want to be punished and under lock and key for the rest of his life, never trusted enough to go on a guys trip. I said I hoped we'd be back there one day, but right now I am not comfortable with it and can't say when or if I will ever be.

This morning he is sticking to it. That guys trips "his freedom" is necessary...that he's a "man" and will do what he wants. He decided we will never be happy.

The angry, sarcastic guy of months ago is creeping in. I said fine, but he is choosing this and I will continue to choose our marriage as long as he's in it with me. I said if this is what he wants, then make it happen. File papers, sort out living, sort out the finances he's promised me. His response was of course "come to the AtM as usual like everyone else"

I am not sure what happened, but there's more going on. We have bad days when he gets frustrated by his parents, or maybe he's getting pressured by friends about trips. The resolve of the last 4 weeks is gone. I feel like someone got in his head...

I think he is depressed as well...but there's only so much I can do. I am not going to beg. If this is his choice fine. Part of me wants to not lift a finger if this is what he wants; part of me doesn't want to sit around and wait for another mood.

He's shown himself I guess.

redrock posted 1/21/2014 05:51 AM

He said he doesn't want to be punished and under lock and key for the rest of his life

This morning he is sticking to it. That guys trips "his freedom" is necessary...that he's a "man" and will do what he wants.

Transparency is not punishment. It is a necessary consequence to continue a relationship with someone who has broken the trust. Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. Sounds like he still has things to hide and is annoyed that you are following through.

He is being punished by being asked to verify that he is trustworthy? After conducting an affair for over half of your relationship? He is not the victim. No matter how he wants to twist it.

Pressure is there in friendships, family and jobs. That is why you learn to establish boundaries and defend them. If he can't manage transparency, never mind empathy..... turn your effort towards yourself.

roarlouder posted 1/21/2014 05:57 AM

I know. He's all or nothing. Part of me thinks he wants this, part of me thinks he thinks he's doing me a favour, part of me thinks it is him crying for love. He's depressed and crying every day. I pushed last night. I know there are setbacks, but I don't want to reason with a child. Ugh.

It's so maddening. He said he's destined to self destruct. I guess I just take care of me. Hard not to worry about him.

karmahappens posted 1/21/2014 06:17 AM

Hey Roarlouder

I am sorry, I just read your other post where he changed the location of his support group.

Combined with this it really makes you wonder.

I know you worry about him, but his attitude towards you is telling. Right now, he doesn't want this.

He doesn't want to be honest, he doesn't want to put your needs, fears and feelings of safety first.

He is instead saying things that would make you throw up your hands and leave, possibly he hasn;t got the guts to walk away and he wants you to do it?

He is not in this marriage with you. He is on a selfish journey to his own ego-stroking, child-like fantasy world.

I would let him have it. Get an attorney, file. He may come around, he may not. But you cannot spend your life wondering, second-guessing, putting yourself and your needs behind his.

Stop making excuses for him, someone getting in his head, he is depressed. He is who he is right now. Look and see it. Face it and start to heal you. You deserve to be cared about, loved and valued. He isn't capable of that.

Pull the 180, get strong and healthy for you. Find your worth and your truth and live it. If he ever comes around and pulls his head out of his ass you will be far down the road with your healing and able to make choices about your life from a healthy place.

Please take care of you.


roarlouder posted 1/21/2014 06:53 AM

I think the other post must be someone else's- no support group here. I just want to call and text and convince him to keep putting in the work with me. I can't decide if he's weak for walking away or strong and admitting what I can't.

karmahappens posted 1/21/2014 07:10 AM

I think the other post must be someone else's- no support group here

Sorry, you are right...I confused posts. Sorry

I just want to call and text and convince him to keep putting in the work with me.

You can't convince him, love him or beg him to come and fix himself. It has to come from in him.

The biggest thing I did was to pull the 180 on my husband. I get it, I do. I wanted to R. I knew we had something, but he was completely screwed up at the time.

I hefty bagged his stuff, got my ducks in order, and let him know I would be filing.

It hit him in the gut. He got his shit together and 5 months after dday we committed to R.

I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't done what I did. I just know he took a look at his life.

He was depressed he was sick with what he had done, but until he was ready to open up and try my words would have fallen on deaf ears.

[This message edited by karmahappens at 7:11 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)]

roarlouder posted 1/21/2014 07:17 AM

So 180? I don't know if I have it in me. Do I leave, ask him to leave, or both stay and see how it plays out? I am not strong enough to do this.

nowiknow23 posted 1/21/2014 07:26 AM

((((roarlouder)))) 180 is different than separating. It is turning your attention away from WH and the marriage, and onto yourself. It has nothing to do with him (not manipulation, not punishment, etc.). Rather, it's intent is to help strengthen yourself and your reserves so that you will be ok no matter what happens with your M. Your focus, your energy, your time is invested in you.

From the BS FAQ:

180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
No frequent phone calls.
Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
Don't follow her/him around the house.
Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
Don't ask for reassurances.
Don't buy or give gifts.
Don't schedule dates together.
Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
Don't be overly enthusiastic.
Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW." (Poodlepapa)

karmahappens posted 1/21/2014 07:46 AM

You are strong enough. One step at a time.

You can do this.

I would do the 180. I hadn't found SI after dday so I did my own screwed up version of it.

roarlouder posted 1/21/2014 09:37 AM

So 30 min after I leave I get a text saying he's sorry, he wants this and he needs to figure out how to do this (I think that means sort his issues).

So what is my move?

rachelc posted 1/21/2014 09:39 AM

He admitted to looking at her profile.

this would be a dealbreaker for me.

karmahappens posted 1/21/2014 09:45 AM

So his feelings about guys trips, being a man , his angry sarcastic attitude just went "poof".

He is trying to manipulate you. Let him do some work before you commit to laying your heart on the line again.

Read the 180. Gather strength and start to heal you. Let him see by your actions that you are capable and don't need his false promises.

[This message edited by karmahappens at 9:54 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)]

Kyrie posted 1/21/2014 10:03 AM

roarlouder, R does not seem over -- it looks like it is. You are getting some very good insight and advice on this thread. I really hope you consider taking it, especially the part about co-dependency. I think that dynamic makes doing a 180 all the more difficult. I am sorry your H is so lost.

Sending you good thoughts for strength and courage!

[This message edited by Kyrie at 10:04 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)]

roarlouder posted 1/21/2014 10:34 AM

Thank you for the advice. I will read the 180 and do my best.

roarlouder posted 1/21/2014 10:37 AM

We have MC tonight, but he sometimes sees him on his own. If I am 180ing do I go? The plan was for us both to be there.

Rebreather posted 1/21/2014 10:53 AM

I agree it is 180 time. I know it seems utterly counterintuitive; you love him and you don't want to seem unloving. But to continue to allow him to call the shots like this and to be manipulative isn't going to help your recovery. Only a hard line stance can do that.

I would tell him you won't be attending marriage counseling with him this evening. That until you see renewed commitment from him - something more concrete than a motherfucking TEXT MESSAGE - that you are pondering your options. Do NOT accept his crumbs.

Many of us BS's had WELCOME written on our backs for a long time. It is important to take measures to stop that from becoming a permanent tattoo.

That said, it can take time for a wayward who is used to being married while also living the single life to grasp the changes they need to make. It must be a daunting task. But certainly not larger than the task they have handed the betrayed. But he has to do that work. It is time for you to take a step back and make him earn his place in your life.

ETA: also, now your focus is on if you should go to MC, and his waffling, and not on the fact that he broke no contact. Don't let him deflect attention from that!

[This message edited by Rebreather at 10:54 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)]

roarlouder posted 1/21/2014 10:56 AM

Ok need help. How do I respond to this text:

I just want us both to be happy and get everything out of life we both want.

karmahappens posted 1/21/2014 10:57 AM

You don't


karmahappens posted 1/21/2014 10:58 AM

We have MC tonight, but he sometimes sees him on his own. If I am 180ing do I go? The plan was for us both to be there

MC is to work on the M

He isn't there yet. He needs to fix himself first.

roarlouder posted 1/21/2014 11:04 AM

Just ignore totally? I was going to say something along the lines of:
As do I. You've made it clear you don't see happiness with me. I promised I would give this everything I had as long as you were. But you have made it clear you don't have any more to give, so I need to turn my attention to myself. I will not continue on this merry go round. I won't be attending out session; if you choose to go on your own for your own therapy that is your business.

...and then not respond. Is this ok?

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