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Spouses with Same Gender APs

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sisoon posted 7/14/2016 13:57 PM

Monika,

For me, it came down to 3 questions.

1) Does she love me?
2) Is she in love with me?
3) Will she be monogamous with me.

I think R is possible when the answer to all 3 questions is 'yes'.

I'm straight and ADD, and let me tell you, the world holds lots of very distracting women. I look, and see, but I just won't allow myself to think about touching anyone but my W. All I want from my W is that she not even think about touching anyone but me.

Does it matter who turns our partners on, as long as 1) we do, and 2) we're the only ones our partners touch?

Imho by being bisexual there will always be a possibility of cheating again with a same sex person.

If you give SI a cursory glance, people who are dealing with straight As are in plenty of pain. Sure, a bi has more potential sex partners than a straight person does, but straight people do more than enough cheating themselves.

Parannonx posted 7/14/2016 18:01 PM

One of the many crappy things about the way my wife cheated on me is that I can relate to a large number of experiences, EA? check. Serial cheater? check. random internet hookups? check. etc.

Among those is the one same sex AP which honestly to me really wasn't a big deal other than who it was with and the deception (finding out that it was a part of a larger pattern of infidelity sucks too). It was the first "affair" I discovered and I didn't even count that discovery as a d-day even though it was the incident that put my radar on high alert and led me to the further evidence that blew up all her extramarital activities.

I say that as a preface to establish what credibility I have on this particular subject.

While I don't think that the gender of the AP affects the aspect of betrayal involved I personally wouldn't have been as hurt had my wife limited her activities to women other than the fact that she hid it from me as I'd have happily let her explore any interests in that area. There are things that a woman can offer to another sexually that I simply can't, and had she been up front and honest with me about it I'd have happily let her have that experience as long as she had done so in a safe and responsible manner.

What concerns me in reading this thread is the level of homophobia that's expressed. My wife cheated with multiple men over a period of years, but I'm not triggered by seeing a man and woman show affection or even having sex (assuming infidelity isn't involved). So why would seeing a committed same sex couple doing the same be triggering for someone who's WS had a same sex partner?

While I don't think that anything justifies infidelity, I do have more sympathy for people who have same sex affairs, particularly men. Society is very judgmental towards homosexuality in general and male culture is especially so, There has historically been massive pressure for men to conform to heterosexual norms. So it's not particularly surprising that people who learned to deceive as a literal survival mechanism (Openly gay people are often the targets of physical and emotional violence) would carry that mechanism into every relationship they have.

Hell just the title of this thread alone shows the social biases regarding sexuality. Note that it's support for spouses who's WS had a same gender AP. What about homosexual people who've been cheated on? Do they belong in this thread? Their WS's had same sex APs yet I doubt they'd feel comfortable in this thread given the level of homophobia I've seen expressed.

I'm not saying that you don't deserve to feel betrayed or that your betrayal is any less than those who's spouses had heterosexual affairs. Betrayal is still betrayal, in fact one can make a strong case that hiding their sexuality while getting married is the bigger betrayal than the actual sex.

That said a huge part of my process for dealing with my own WW's cheating is to try and empathize with what was going on in her head, not to excuse but simply to understand.

I also know that doing so is really really hard when in the BS position. All the pain and anger makes it very difficult to feel any empathy for your WS.

I also imagine that you don't get the same sort of support as those with heterosexual affairs, you have a mix of "What's the big deal? it's not like you could have offered them X anyway" and "how didn't you know that they were gay?" amplified and aggravated by societies attitude towards homosexuality. Not to mention those who are sympathetic to your WS because they were forced to suppress their sexuality by those same social attitudes towards homosexuality and attempt to excuse the pain that it's caused you because of it.

Still try to put yourself into your WS's position for a minute. You have desires that the world won't validate. These aren't feelings and urges you can turn off, you are ashamed of them, you know that the people in your life wouldn't understand them. So you suppress them and pretend that they aren't there. You go through the motions of living a life that never feels authentic. Then eventually you reach the point where you can't ignore it anymore, but you still care for those in your life so you think, "well maybe I can scratch this itch and if I'm careful enough they'll never know and everything will be fine."

Yeah I know it's typical wayward thinking, but if homosexual urges combined with social pressures to conform to a hetero-normative lifestyle isn't the ultimate FOO I don't know what is.

I think in many ways unless your partner was openly bi-sexual this is the one form of infidelity that is really as much the fault of society as it is the individuals who cheated. This isn't to excuse the betrayal, it's still selfish and wrong to gain at the expense of others and one shouldn't hold such important secrets from the person you have promised to be faithful to, however it is understandable to some degree. Just as my own wife's infidelity when considered in the entire context of her life is understandable more so really because she wasn't under additional pressure to suppress her sexuality.

Unfortunately understanding doesn't mean that the pain goes away.

One thing that upset me the most about my own WW's infidelity is that she made assumptions about my feelings and thinking without actually talking to me about it, she assumed that I would or wouldn't do things then made decisions based on those assumptions. I can honestly say that had she made those concerns clear I'd have reacted in the opposite way that she assumed that I would.

How would you have reacted had your WS approached you regarding their homosexual urges? Would you have been open to listening to them compassionately with understanding?

I am not trying to invalidate anyone's feeling or dismiss anyone's pain. I just wanted to give people something to mull over and chew on in the hope that perhaps some comfort can be found.

HowIsThisReal posted 7/14/2016 18:51 PM

I've only seen one (self admitted) homophobic in here. Maybe I haven't been keeping up much as I should though.

As far as being concerned if our spouses are gay? I do think it's a real concern, not homophobia. If my H had come to me expressing interest in gay sex, I wouldn't have listened with an open mind and allowed him to explore it. I would have told him to figure it out, and to decide if never trying gay sex was something he could live with. I wouldn't be compassionate, it would be a complete shock to the system. you think you know someone so well and then BOOM a grenade goes off.

My H was catfished in a sense and his adrenaline was already pumping in preparation for his encounter with this person he thought was a woman. When the person emailed and said "hey by the way I'm a guy" and went on to list reasons why they should still meet up, (example: guys give better blowjobsbs, my H should "just try it", etc), well the adrenaline was already going, he was already doing something fucked up and shameful by cheating, so he tried it. After that, the wall of shame fell. He realized men were easier to findon CL for NSA hook-ups and it took off from there.

If my H came to me and said he was having gay urges, why would I put years of work into building this marriage if I knew he was really gay? Down the line he would have to give up the charade and live authentically. My efforts would be for nothing, because in the end I would still end up with a broken marriage.

I'm triggered by ANYONE having sex. If sex scenes come on TV I have to physically turn my head. My heart races, anxiety rises, etc. My H and I tried to watch Game Of Thrones as a new show to watch together, and I couldn't do it. The amount of sex scenes there are... all I can do is imagine my H in those scenes having sex with other women, or men.

It's ALL traumatizing unfortunately. 😔

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 7:02 PM, July 14th (Thursday)]

Lovingmyselfmore posted 7/14/2016 20:39 PM

I believe that many of us sacrificed a lot for the happiness of the other and put a lot of effort into the relatiinship and it's not fair to tell us that we are wrong for not being compassionate and more tolerating.

At least in my case I sacrificed a lot and almost lost my business, a house and a lot more things because o f my selfish WS.

I wish he would tell me the truth and I would have not given him my best years

We are not homophobic, we are traumatized by what happened to us and when that happens you get triggered. That is very different than being homophobic just per sť.

I am not at fault for what he did parannox and every body has a mind and is capable of making good decisions.

I can't understand what you are trying to do by your comments in this forum because I don't find them supportive of the members in this community but maybe it is because I don't have your point of view and I am in a lot of pain.

A LOT even after 2 years of doing my very best to heal.

I wish you peace

[This message edited by Lovingmyselfmore at 9:00 PM, July 14th (Thursday)]

confused615 posted 7/14/2016 22:02 PM

Actually we have had lesbians and homosexuals post on this thread....and they understood why we felt the way we felt. This is not about homophobia, it is about finding out your husband had sex with another man. I guess it didn't bother you that your wife had sex with another woman..... good for you. Society also says it's "hot" when two women hook up...maybe that plays into your attitude.

And,as mentioned, worrying that your husband is gay is not homophobic. At all. It's a real fear.

Btw.....my 11 year old daughter told me yesterday she thought she was bisexual. My response? I don't care who she chooses to love,as long as they treat her with respect and kindness,and she is happy. Then we went about our day, like it was no big deal. Because it's no big deal.

A year after dday, I happened upon a message from a female friend to my oldest daughter..she was 17...and I realised it was a love letter,and stopped reading. My thoughts? I was disappointed she hadn't come out to me,as I've always been extremely open minded. Funny story, it was a letter her friend had asked her to look over before she sent it to her boyfriend.

My sister is bisexual. I adore her.

Homophobic?

You're wrong.

And if you don't think the majority of us don't empathize with our spouses, you're wrong again.

Cloudyrain posted 7/15/2016 07:35 AM

My EXWH won't tell me if he prefers men, its maddening not knowing. I suspect he could be gay, he says he hasn't thought about it. That is his answer to a lot of my questions.

I am in no way homophobic, I have been hurt by my exs cheating,, lies and uncertainity of his sexuality.

I have been having a really awful week, I have tried to get on with it and work through it but i feel like I am sinking. My kids have had a school event every day this week which me and EXWH have attended. I had thought I would be civil and then ignore him. But I was overcome with emotion and couldn't stop crying at the first event, luckly I had sun glasses on and thought I was hiding it. But my child told me later she could tell I was crying. I felt so down.

I've struggled through the other events with a few tears but acting ok ish. At an event yesterday I got a bit weepy, I was sitting with EXWH and I was looking at him thinking he looks like my old loving husband and how much I miss him and am so attracted to him still, I wanted to grab his hand and hug him, but I didn't.

When the event had finished we got up to leave and that's when I noticed he wasn't wearing his wedding ring. He always made a point of wanting to wear it and it was important to him not to take it of. It hid me so hard and I was totally overcome with emotion. I ran to the bathroom and cried in there for ages. I messaged EXWH to take my child home and why I had ran of.

When they had left I drove around for while, I feel so down and miserable. Luckily I went to a friends for a chat. Otherwise I just didn't feel I could go home or carry on. I hate this situation. I hate that he can walk away so easily and not care about me. Its been maybe 3 weeks since he said he wanted a divorce, but he didn't want to tell the kids yet. So I have been a complete mess and trying to act ok for the kids. Then he takes of his ring, which the kids could notice. And why do it when he knows I have struggled so badly this week.

I am taking a few of the kids away for one night on my own camping, but with lots of friends as well. I am very nervous. I would rather do it as a family thing. I've hardly slept

The kids think we will get back together and its not what he wants at all. Why do I still love him when he treats me like this.
I'm really struggling. I have to have contact because of the kids but it is killing me to see him and hear about his fab life. When I can barely find the strength to carry on with my life. Its not getting easier to cope, its getting worse. How do I co-parent with him? I am trying my best but blimey its me that gets hurt all the time.

I feel everyone understands me here. Hugs to all.

[This message edited by Cloudyrain at 7:37 AM, July 15th (Friday)]

Cloudyrain posted 7/15/2016 08:33 AM

I meant to say on the first event ExWH spoke really loudly to a Dad there who was exactly his "type" for the whole event. I was full of jealousy and rage. I was upset but he had to be his loud self, and what I thought was flirting. Why couldn't he just blend into the background for onetime to save my feelings.

Then at the event last night he was looking all the women up and down! Gross.

It's not a dignified way to act. Things like that make me think he's trying to upset me. Or he just doesn't care at all !!

Gloomyfish77 posted 7/15/2016 10:46 AM

Firstly - Parranox

What concerns me in reading this thread is the level of homophobia that's expressed. My wife cheated with multiple men over a period of years, but I'm not triggered by seeing a man and woman show affection or even having sex (assuming infidelity isn't involved). So why would seeing a committed same sex couple doing the same be triggering for someone who's WS had a same sex partner?

I'm not sure if you have caught me in a bad mood but this REALLY pisses me off. Do you know what.....I'm actually too outraged to comment on your post period

((((Cloudyrain))) - I'm so sorry you are hurting badly my friend. It must have been awful to see he had taken off his wedding ring. I don't really know what to say to help but I'm sending you SO much love, hugs, and strength to get you through the next few hours.....then I'll send more later to get you through the night.....I hope you feel my love and support honey....you CAN do this ❤️

Parannonx posted 7/15/2016 11:52 AM

As I said I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's pain, Betrayal is betrayal regardless of the genders involved and hurts just the same.

If what I wrote doesn't apply to you then don't take it as an accusation. It's not intended to be accusatory.

That said I have read homophobic sentiments ITT. Particularly around the time of the attack in Orlando. People saying that they were triggered by seeing two men kissing.

I get that there is a ton of pain behind those sentiments and sometimes people need to vent, I just wanted to give a perspective on the additional social pressures that are placed on those who don't conform to heterosexual norms.

As for my not objecting to the idea of my wife having sex with another woman it's not about it being "hot" it's about being secure in my own sexuality and wanting her to be happy, to me the betrayal was the deception not the sex. The same would have went for her having sex with other men had she been honest with me and been willing to take my concerns into account.

Like I said I don't mean to hurt anyone or invalidate your pain. I was just bothered by the tone of some of the things I read ITT and wanted to address them.

I apologize to anyone who I've caused additional pain to, I really don't mean to add to your hurt.

confused615 posted 7/15/2016 13:11 PM

Do you think we are all so stupid that we don't know about the societal pressure??

You're lecturing us. It's insulting.

Yes...seeing two men kissing triggered the Hell out of me. Hmmm. I've read over and over again, on every other forum here, that seeing two people engage in any sex act in a movie triggers them. So are they prejudiced against heterosexuals??? Or that seeing blonde,young women trigger them,because AP was young and blonde. Are you going to accuse them of hating all women?? Or how about the people who trigger when they see an Hispanic woman/man? Gonna call them all racists?

Hmmm. Seeing two men kiss triggers me at one point...but my favourite couple on Modern Family are Mitch and Cam. So I guess it just depends on where I am emotionally, when it comes to what triggers me.


Had you come on and shared your experience, and perspective as it relates to your situation, rather than lecture us, and shame us for our very valid,very painful feelings and experiences, it would have been received differently.

Instead...you're coming off as condescending.

confused615 posted 7/15/2016 13:19 PM

Lol.....my husband just asked what was wrong...so I showed him your posts..and mine...

He said you don't know me. But he does. And I am as far from homophobic as it gets. That I am kind, compassionate, and he wishes he had told me about his urges before he acted on them. And that I have never,not one time, ever tried to make him feel ashamed for that aspect of his betrayal.

So there you have it.

Yes....I'm angry.

I don't post about my situation much, because for a long time, every time I did, I had to make sure to include I wasn't homophobic, because I wanted to make it clear that wasn't my issue. I now only post about my situation here on this thread, just so I don't have to explain myself, or defend my thoughts. But here I am. Defending myself. Again.


Let me make it crystal clear. I am not against gay men. I have no problem with them at all. My problem is with men who hide their sexuality from their wives, while getting nsa sex on the side from other men. It's dangerous. Hiv is prevalent in these situations. It's a huge betrayal, on top of being cheated. And Fuck what society has taught anyone. I am not society. I am the loving,faithful wife, who had always been outspoken when it came to gay rights. Highly in favour of it, BTW. He should have come to me. I deserved that. I have empathy. But I am human, and I didn't deserve this. And I will not tolerate less than what I deserve.

sisoon posted 7/15/2016 14:20 PM

There is something that looks like homophobia here, if only the posts that say a man who had sex with a man is necessarily gay. But is that homophobia, or is it lack of knowledge of current research on sexuality and sexual identity?

When I qualified for SI membership, I feared that I'd be treated as real loser in the R & G forums (I prefer fora, but apparently no one studies Latin any more) - not even man enough to keep my W. So this thread looked pretty much like a godsend.

It wasn't. Over half the activity here has occurred pretty much in the last year, and I joined in 2011. (This is the 2nd thread, opened after the 1st one hit its maximum capacity.)

More important, because there was so little activity here, I read R & G and found that I was going through the same sort of shit everybody else was. And no one ever gave me any flack for my W's A - I was accepted as just another Betrayed Spouse.

Besides, I couldn't help feeling in my gut that my W's choice of ap confirmed my manhood - she wanted a woman, which is something I just can't be. So I ventured into R & G, and I recommend doing so to newbies here..

I think the women here who are so hard hit by the fact that their Hs cheated with men are in part simply reflecting societal values - 2 women are hot, 2 men are not - but mostly expressing fear within the excruciatingly painful context of being betrayed.

My W became contrite on d-day. My fear was that she was gay (even after all these years), but she was quick to point out that she was pretty sure she wasn't, because she enjoyed sex with me, and gay women pretty much do not enjoy even thinking about sex with men. The years we had together made that very believable.

Most people don't get that assurance on d-day, hence, IMO, the terrible fear that they married a gay man. IMO, that's not homophobia; rather, I think it's that people in this much pain speak from the pain.

[This message edited by sisoon at 2:28 PM, July 15th (Friday)]

monika posted 7/15/2016 16:43 PM

As far as my case is concerned, I am not homophobic at all. It is not the case of that I am disquisted by the fact that my husband betrayed me with a men. The pain comes rather from the betrayal itself amd also from the fear that he might be gay and it would make our marriage a totallu different thing.
My husband claims he is bisexual so I believe we can make our marriage work. We work on many things... And i strongly believe we can be successful. But as many of us here, my greatest fear is that he can turn out to be gay and the whole thing will turns out to be different. If he preferred men and was not atracted to women, I cannot imagine how our marriage vould work.
That makes a huge difference for me as far as my marriage is concerned. That has nothing to do with my general attitude to homosexual pairs.

[This message edited by monika at 6:31 AM, July 16th (Saturday)]

Maryjen posted 7/16/2016 10:57 AM

Well, it's the weekend again. I make it through the week pretty good, when things are busy. Now sitting here on Saturday morning I find myself starting to obsess just a little and starting to hunt for more evidence.

I posted a couple of times in the other forum, but it was suggested I post here, it might be less judging, less of me having to talk about if my WS is gay or not.

Been married forever, teenagers still at home. A couple of weeks ago I found out that he had been having online relationships with Ladyboys in Asia and around the country. Before I need to start talking about if that is an appropriate way to refer to someone, that is the website he found them on, it is called Ladyboys. A couple of these relationships have been going on for about a year.

Confirmed as well that he took online to real life with a pre op transvesite escort. Can only prove once, but once is enough.

I am probably the most accepting person of all LGBT rights, so even posting in here feels awkward because I feel that someone transitioning to female is a woman so really is this a same sex A, I don't know.

Been going through so many emotions since finding out. I really don't think I am angry enough most of the time. He is showing real signs of remorse and I can tell how hard he is trying. I don't know if this will last if it is real remorse. Just a lot going on, I don't want to split up, I like my life so I can't be sure if I am just hiding my feelings because of that. I also don't want him to think I am ok with everything because I not ok at all.

Saw a IC this week, felt a sense of relief because I have not told anyone the whole story, he is seeing IC today. Anyway, this is me, hoping to find some company here in this crappy journey.

Lovingmyselfmore posted 7/16/2016 12:14 PM

Dear Maryjen

Welcome and so sorry that you are in our club.

It's not an easy situation. In fact infidelity is the worse thing that has happened to me and I consider myself a very tough woman!

The first thing I did when I came here was to read the thread in it's entirety. The previous one, started in 2007. It's here:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=185096&HL=46119

You will find resources and very important information there.

The rate of reconciliation in same sex affairs is very low.

I only know of 4 people who are reconciled from this thread, so it is not easy.

The ones who are reconciled will tell you its worth it and they will support the possibility of reconciliation and the ones who are separated will tell you separation is the best.

But only you can know what is best for you and only you will decide if your spouse is capable of being a safe partner after what he has done.

And that is why it's important to read the previous thread so that you can find more about the experiences of people and gather more data to be able to navigate this situation and make informed decisions.

I recommend also the support groups in yahoo. Both: spouses of gays and lesbians and the alternate path.

It's difficult to read the experiences of those women but it's like getting the complete picture of this whole situation. (I was there for investigation and for support also)

After being in those forums for a while and weighting the pros and cons of my situation, I decided to separate.

He was gaslighting, blameshifting, denying and went underground with the affair.

And I also discovered that he is a NPD and understood his behavior and why he wasn't feeling even an inch of remorse but all the contrary, blaming, blaming, blaming and enjoying his affair and having an hysterical bonding with the AP while I was in such pain and considering suicide.

Many of the WS are also NPD and knowing that my ex was helped me tons, so I also suggest reading about narcissistic personality disorder so that you can have more information on the topic in case your WS is NPD (they're charming and capable of hiding the reality of a one way relationship very, very well so almost no one knows about the disorder until it's too late and you have been discarded after decades of being used)

The other thing that helped me were the books from Bonie Canye, she has worked with wives of gays and bisexuals and has a lot of experience in the topic.

The books will help you to have an objective view of the topic and not fall in denial that is very common when we are in love with that person or desperately want to save our relationship.

Again, I am so sorry that you are here, truly sorry.

Hugs
LMM

Maryjen posted 7/16/2016 13:53 PM

Thank you for the advice LMM I did start reading through the other forum. I found one similar situation to mine so far, but that is it.

IC suggested I don't focus on why he picked trans women to cheat with just yet. IC said many of these attractions are just about a women with a penis less so about exploring sex with a man. He will have to work through the reasons why I guess, if it bi or gay I can't change that about him. I really don't think we is gay but I am sure most people on this thread would have said the same thing. I am very analytical, so I sit here and rationalize all the possibilities but starting to think I am making this about him and his issues more than what he has done to me and our family.

Had an argument with one of the kids this week, just stupid teenage attitude, not really a big deal. Still they can just push my buttons and make me super angry, yet he has been cheating for st least a year and I don't feel the same anger.

I don't want him thinking everything is going to be ok. Not sure how long this detachment feeling is going to last. I cry a lot, and I am not a crier ( I consider myself very strong as well). He deserves my anger

Gloomyfish77 posted 7/16/2016 21:39 PM

(((Maryjen))))

Sorry you're here honey but these folks are awesome whether you need to vent or ask for advice. Keep posting.

Sending love and support to you.

💕💕💕

Maryjen posted 7/16/2016 23:44 PM

Thank you Gloomy

H saw IC for the first time today. Some good conversations after, but still early days I know that.

Had a couple of glasses of wine tonight. First drink since finding out, not sure if I am thinking more about this with wine or less

Gloomyfish77 posted 7/17/2016 21:00 PM

(((Maryjen)))) Wine makes it worse honey but I'm not gonna lecture you coz I am there too right now :-(

Vent........

Why is gay/lesbian sex EVERYWHERE on tv ????????

Firstly it ruined "Nashville", then f*cked up "shades of blue" & Empire......basically in every series I have watched since DDay and it screws with my head and triggers me SO bad......

Parannonx......sorry if that sounds homophobic!!!!

Lovingmyselfmore posted 7/17/2016 22:58 PM

I am getting triggered too Gloomy!

Yesterday a friend told me he just found out he's gay!

He asked me to marry him before I met my ex! can't believe this!

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