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We are done! Just contemplating how to tell her.

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ohforanewme posted 6/15/2017 07:14 AM

I am not sure that I am posting this in the correct forum, for me D Day was nearly a year ago and we are supposed to be in R for over 9 months now but things are not going well.

I found SI about 8 weeks ago when I did a web search on whether a cheating wife would ever even begin to comprehend the depth and breadth of pain they caused the one that loved them most.

I have just been a silent observer on SI until today but I feel as if I have at last found a safe place where there is some understanding of the hell I am living in. The world goes on around me. There is laughter, children running, commercial transactions happening, conversations over meals being shared, and no one notices that I am in this isolated capsule of hell and torment.

Being new to this space I am not sure what the rules of SI are? Will this post be too long, too vicious, will the language be too strong. I am hoping that the moderators will gently correct me where that is necessary. I also struggle with a lot of the abbreviations and hope I get them right.

What prompted me to now contribute is a posting that I read last week that, all of a sudden, cleared all my confused thinking of the past year. In less than a day it gave me the clarity of thought and sense of certainty that nothing, not MC not IC not agonising conversations with WW over many months, not extended treatment supervised by a psychiatrist, has managed to achieve.

I suppose that before I get to the posting and the effect it had on me I need to share some of the details. This is extremely difficult for me. I am a very private person. -

We were married in Jan 1993. Enjoyed 9 years of married bliss without children. We used these years to add to our academic qualifications, build careers, accumulate some wealth, but we also used them to travel, explore the world, strengthen our relationship and keep romance alive through stolen weekends at boutique hotels or extending business trips away so that the spouse could be part of our lives here too. Neither of us felt any need to introduce children into our lives. We were just so happy. We had actually spoken about it and agreed that neither of us had any desire to have children, until , one day my wife’s body clock kicked in and she came home saying “I want a baby!” She interpreted my utter shock as opposition to the idea and a small, explosive fight ensued until I could convince her that it was merely shock and that I was thrilled with the idea. DD was born in 2001. It was one of the happiest weeks of my life. WW stayed in hospital for as long as she could get insurance to allow it. Everything was done for her and the baby, all she had to do was enjoy our new treasure. DS was born in 2006. Again a week etched in my memory as sheer joy.

In 2008 WW said that she wanted to re-enter the world of work and started a new job. She has always been good at what she does and was appointed continental brand manager for a Multi-nat.

For a family with 2 young children and a husband with an executive job, there were some challenges. Her job required her to spend one week a quarter in London and one week a quarter in some other large city, usually in Europe or the Far East. We pulled together as a team and dealt with these. What made things a little easier was that after WW dad had died we added a cottage to the house for her mom to stay in. It was done in such a way that both MIL and us as a family had total privacy, but easy access to each other when needed.

There were difficult moments. DS had severe respiratory problems in his early years and I have the vivid memory of my 6 year old DD and I sleeping on the cold hard floor of a Paediatric ICU under the hospital bed of DS where he was “tented” to allow him to keep breathing. It was a particularly difficult period for me at work and I had called WW to ask if there was any way that her trip could be shortened but no it could not, it had to be extended by a day. On another occasion, the need to extend her business trip meant that she had to miss mother’s day with the children who had put so much effort into preparing a special surprise for her. But we realise that work makes its demands and we sometimes need to accommodate. We still managed to get good quality family time in. At least 2 good family vacations every year. Weekends as a family, every Friday night supper together around the family table, stolen romantic weekends and even the odd date night.

As gran aged she became less mobile and more isolated so we made a point of spending every Saturday morning with her. On Saturday 11 June of last year the kids and I go across to have breakfast with Gran (WW is in London on business). We find Gran unconscious, groaning, in a pool of vomit on her bed and sheets soaked in the most fowl smelling excrement I have ever encountered. The first call is to the paramedics. They are there in under 3 minutes. The next call is to WW. Her cell goes straight to voice mail so I have to look up the hotel number and get them to put me through to the room. The phone is answered by a man! The alarm bells in my head go off immediately but the calm manner in which he answers and says “sure” and just hands her the phone gives me some reassurance. Anyway, no time to ponder that more deeply, there are serious matters at hand (in retrospect, what could be more serious than your marriage?), but ever purposeful I tell her about her mom, say it is critical that she return home immediately and then set about getting ambulances, locating health insurance forms, informing family doctors, filling in an endless number of forms at the hospital, getting her moved from emergency to ICU, and in all this, making sure that a 14 yrld DD and 9 yrld DS are washed, fed, clothed and comforted.

I fetch WW from the airport, her cheeks wet with tears, eyes red from crying and her first words are “how is mom?”. The next 2 weeks are spent living at the ICU, with at first the joy of a seemingly strong recovery of MIL and then a gradual slow demise until the 1:30 AM call from the hospital informing us that she is gone.

It is then forms, decisions and arranging the cremation. Followed by a family trip to the mountains to spread the ashes and set MIL free where we had done the same for FIL. And then, for the first time in weeks, there was relative calm that allowed the subconscious voices in my head to again ask, “What was a man doing in WW’s hotel room at 8:30 on a Saturday morning?”. I then recognised that there was a 2 hour time difference between home and London, so the voice now screamed, “what was a man doing in WW’s hotel room at 6:30 on a Saturday morning?”. (I actually got this calculation wrong, the UK was in Daylight saving time at that point so there was only a 1 hour difference).

That evening, when we were alone I asked the question. Her face flushed with embarrassment, tears welled up in her eyes and she said, “I am sorry. I am so sorry” and at that precise moment my life ended.

The confession began to trickle out. There were 2 PAs. The first began soon after the business trips started. The plush hotels, the dinners in restaurants on company expense accounts, the intelligent conversations late into the night the fairy-tale world of all this without any of the mundane, was intoxicating. The first PA lasted nearly 3 years. It ended when OM1’s BS found out and made him change jobs. The 2nd PA had started nearly 18 months ago.

I have never felt such intense furry, hurt and worthlessness in my entire life. It was only the “stiff upper lip” Anglo-Saxon cultural programing embedded deep in my DNA that prevented me from assaulting her, smashing things or screaming, but she says that she has never seen me that angry –ever, and it was the first time in her life that she was afraid in my presence. In a cold as steel whisper I called her a whore and a slut, (on a side note, I saw in one of the other forums WW discussing the hurt they felt when called that by their BH’s. My time on SI has been limited but I find it quite incredulous that the hurt done to them by this word is so great that it becomes a topic of conversation for them. It becomes ever clearer to me that the WSs cannot even begin to conceive the hurt that they have inflicted on an innocent party (you will remember what I was looking for when I found this community) but they then feel entitled to, as guilty as sin deceivers, feel hurt at a word said in utter anguish. My WW certainly met all the requirements for me to call her a whore. In the one incidence that came out through the disclosure phase it was apparent that she followed the scrip of Julia Stiles in the series “Blue” where Stiles plays the part of a high end hooker, to the letter, only difference is my WW didn’t take the $600 dollars at the end of the evening. Yes her actions were those of a whore, just a very cheap one. Also if the actions of my WW are not the perfect definition of a slut then what would it be?)

I wanted her out of my house, out of my life, out of my family! But I wanted to protect my precious kids who had just endured such heartache with the death of their gran. Gran’s place was now available so she moved in there that evening. Fortunately WW had often complained about my snoring so we used that as the excuse to the kids and put on the best possible show for them but I could not stand the site of WW. We cancelled all social contact and engagement, took turns in attending school functions so that I did not have to be with her.

Even this was too much contact and I wanted her out so we used the excuse that because she had cut her work trip short she had to go back. She moved into a hotel far enough away that the kids or friends would not bump into her.

I used this time. I consulted with our family attorney. I attempted as much discovery as possible. Our marriage trust levels were always such that we shared the same passwords and pins for everything, phones, email accounts, bank accounts. It is quite ironic that the only thing that she had relied on to protect her dirty little secret was my absolute trust of her! So I had free access to the entire sordid history. I discovered the discussion where it was agreed that private email accounts would be used to avoid any discovery by the company and possible disciplinary action for breach of what was clearly forbidden by the company code of conduct. I discovered some very painful facts such as her manipulating her birth control to ensure that she never had her period on a week that they were together. The result was the delayed flows were heavier and longer during the times that should have been my intimate time with her. I discovered that up to 2 months prior to a trip they started sharing their anticipation for the time together. How they were disappointed when the next designated city was an interesting city as then they might be tempted to go and see the sights rather than spend time together in the hotel room. Possibly the most painful of all was that the trip extensions when I had to spend the night under a hospital bed and then also for the missed mother’s day was so that they could have more free time together.

She had also been using this time. She had thrown herself into research on how to save a marriage after an affair. She resigned from her job and found another that did not require out of country travel. She confided in friends, but only the 5 closest. After about 4 weeks she called me and asked if we could meet just to speak. We were in limbo and could not live the rest of our lives like this and needed some sort of plan of the way forward, whatever that would be. I agreed. I wanted a 1000 questions answered.

She told me about the job change (although even while I found that as a very positive move, the way it was presented to me hurt me even further), she brought a trunk full of books (even one with the outrageous title, something along the lines of “my husband’s affair was the best thing that happened to our marriage” – must have been a pretty Sh*ty marriage) and as much academic research as she could lay her hands on. She knew me well enough to know that this would speak to me.

The research showed that up to 70% of marriages that experience infidelity can be saved. She knew that this would throw a switch for me. One of my flaws is that I have little tolerance for failure in myself. In academics, business and in service to the community, I have achieve far more than most. (I would imagine that at this point some will think that they have the excuse for the infidelity right here. Obviously I gave so much externally that it would have been impossible for me to give anything as a husband and father. My best defence is that WW freely states that I have been the best father and husband she knows). My mind said to me that if 70% of marriages survive infidelity then if I allow ours to fail I will have been a double failure. I would have allowed my marriage to fail and I would then be in the 30% and surely 30 out of a 100 is a failure, the 70% must be where the winners are. So I agreed to walk a path of R. It was disastrous.

My wife arranged for marriage counseling. It was with a woman Councillor. The parking at her offices was horrendous and I arrived at the session in a foul mood. I then get spun the yarn that an affair, if handled correctly, can be the best thing that happens to a marriage. I exploded, how can anything good ever come out of my wife allowing a stranger to penetrate her with the “most forceful thrusts she has ever experienced in her entire life" (her words to him in one of their reflective post trip emails) and ejaculate in what should be my sacred paradise, produce anything of benefit for our marriage.

The counselor did not appreciate my approach and if that was the way I continued to conducted myself I was dooming our marriage to failure (yip, the marriage failure would be on me). She then immediately goes on with “you have to recognise, acknowledge and own the fact that you are responsible for 50% of the problems in the marriage”. I got up and left. I told my wife that she was free to try IC but that it HAS to be with someone other than that woman who would do nothing other than poison her mind.

WW convinced me to go to IC. It was a disaster.

Like a lab rat I was subjected to a battery of endless personality and disposition tests. Who I was as a human being was presented to me in pyramids, quadrants, graphs and endless bullet points or bold subheadings with superficial descriptive text. All this did, was dig the pit that I was in, even deeper. What it suggested was that I am in fact such a wondrous being that I cannot other than be in awe of myself and love myself to my core.

Just to give you some insight into the garbage I was fed, here are some direct extracts from the output of one test I had to endure;

Triangular Configuration

There is adequate gratification within your work/application environment. This provides more than adequate chemical resilience in terms of wellness and performance. There is adequate gratification within your personal/interpersonal environment. This provides more than adequate chemical resilience in terms of wellness and performance.

Verve Score

You have near optimal levels of self-confidence and self-esteem. In this regard you have the capacity for personal self-development and enjoyment

Corporate profile

You are currently in a maximally resourceful zone in your work environment.

And yet I am such a failure as a husband that my WW has to find gratification in the arms of complete strangers that she knows almost nothing about. Are you surprised that I saw no value in IC.

WW moved back home so that we could at least talk and try and work things out. She still stayed in gran’s place but was part of family suppers and we went to events as a family unit. But even with all of this I just slid into an even deeper place until the pain was so impossible that it was now unbearable. That triggered me into action. I don’t let others dictate my life. I take control and action. I crafted a plan. Exquisite in detail.

I updated my will, leaving everything to my children. I compiled and easy referenceable inventory of all assets and investments, I meticulously executed a plan to get a security access card for the building that I had identified as the most suitable. I hand wrote notes of apology to my two children explaining how I knew that suicide was one of the most selfish things that anybody could inflict on someone that they loved but that unfortunately there is something even more selfish than that and that had been inflicted on me and I just could not bear the pain. I hoped that, them knowing that I was at last freed from the pain, would be some consolation in their grief.

Fortunately, on my team at work, I have a number of outstanding Doctors. One was astute enough to spot the depth of my depression and notice that any reference to the future had completely vanished from my conversations. He instantly knew what was in the planning. He got a psychiatrist friend of his to find time in his impossibly full appointment book, tricked me into a “site visit” with him. Drove me straight to the specialist’s rooms and walked me in. He saved my life.

I was under psychiatric care for 6 months. I was prescribed Zoloft. The clouds began to lift just a little. He recommended a marriage councillor and because it came from him I was prepared to try again.

The councillor was a man, who himself was divorced after an affair. My wife had some concerns about his impartiality but these melted when he gave her numbers to call of wives whose marriages he helped save. The councillor was brilliant.

He had me write a letter to WW explaining to her what her A had cost me. In 18 pages I explained how she had brutally raped and murdered our marriage, robbed me of all of my past, my present and any future that I had thought we might have. He helped me deal with what I thought would be the most impossible of all and that is the nightmare of another man being intimate with my wife in ways that were promised to only me. It was brutally painful but worked.

WW moved back into the bedroom, there is laughter around the family table again. We have enjoyed a few family weekend getaways. There have even been some pleasant date nights. But this is all still superficial. I am still gutted and sore. I have no interest in discussing or even imagining a future. The few attempts at sexual intimacy have been a disaster. Total erectile dysfunction. I don’t find WW sexually attractive anymore. I think my subconscious sees her as damaged goods. My wounds are still raw and getting more painful, not less, and WW wife seems to be slipping easily into the normality of life as it used to be, oblivious that I am again sinking in the dark pit. She believes we have achieved R and is beginning to get irritated when I still need questions answered, or make trust building demands, or cry.

Apart from the few tears that welled up on D day confrontation but never actually fell, she has not cried once.

And then to the post that triggered it all. I was reading on one of the strings, I cannot remember which it was and haven’t been able to find it again, but there was good constructive dialogue between BS’s and WS’s that I found valuable and encouraging until I got to one post by a WW who shared some of the difficulty she experienced in letting the AP go but then BH and family were at a park as a normal family. Laughter, children playing, dads pushing kids on the swings and she said something along the following lines to herself, “how could I ever have valued a snog in the toilet more than this?” As I read this post I felt deeper rage than I had even experienced on D Day. The whole world around me blurred. I was literally blinded by rage. If the writer of the post had been in the room with me I would have violently assaulted her. Even my deep “stiff upper lip old chap” DNA would not have been able to hold me back. I did smash things. Everything I could lay my hands on. I stumbled and fell and only stopped when I hurt myself so badly I nearly knocked myself unconscious. I then just lay in a heap and sobbed like I never have through this entire process.

I hope that the WW who made that post never reads this or if she does that she realises that none of this is actually her doing. Her contributions have been so honest, sincere and constructive that I would hate to be the cause of her withdrawing her input that is helping so many damaged BS to heal.

When I was able to at last think rationally again, I recognised that all that fury was actually directed at my wife.

We are blessed as a family to live in a beautiful place with streams and meadows, fairways and parks and on the previous Sunday we had a family picnic in one of the parks. There were children playing, dads having fund romping on the ground with their kids, children running into the arms of mothers and my wife and kids were cavorting on the blanket with much laughter. What my wife had not noticed is that in all of this I was in a very dark place again.

I had withdrawn to a bench far away from everyone as I was so sore inside that I could not bear to be that hurt while there was so much happiness around me. My WW was so happy in her contentment that she again had no care for me. This was not a new, post A life of ours. It was what our life always was and here, while I am in a moment of deepest hurt, WW was enjoying everything that she had consciously chosen to put at risk for a few moments of pure selfishness.

Reading the post put it into even clearer perspective. WW had consciously, very deliberately chosen a snog in a toilet (yes she had one. In a toilet for the physically impaired, in an international airport, one last quick one to tide them over the next 3 months of separation).

I was, our family was, mother’s day with my precious children was, of less value to her than a snog in the toilet.

Reflecting on the post in a slightly more sane moment brought me to the realisation that the hurt of consciously being valued as less than a snog in a toilet would never be healed. I was, am and always will be, worth much more than that.

Realising that choosing not to stay with the person that has valued you and all that you hold so dearly, no more than a snog in a toilet, is not a personal failure. It is their failure that you have no part or responsibility in.

The level of relief that I have experienced from that moment is indescribable. I have absolute clarity. We will D.

I have been to see the lawyer again. I have begun to piece a comprehensive plan together. I have begun to think through how I can minimise any hurt to the children. I now need to think through how and when I tell her.

It is quite ironic. This time I have a dark secret that is going to turn her world upside-down.

I have no desire to hurt her in this or use it to extract revenge of any sort. In fact what I am really looking for is thoughts and advice on how I can minimise any hurt and then be supportive in healing the hurt.

If you look carefully at my thoughts and plans you will see a fundamental change in my outlook on the world. You will notice that I am beginning to see the faint outline of a possible future for myself and my children.

My marriage has failed but I am not a failure and I have a future.

This has been so therapeutic! Thank you SI.

[This message edited by ohforanewme at 4:47 AM, June 20th (Tuesday)]

burcm posted 6/15/2017 07:52 AM

I am sorry that you ended up posting on this website, but know that it is the best place to vent after experiencing cheating.

You write "My marriage has failed but I am not a failure and I have a future." and yes, this is I believe what happens once you make a decision for D. There is always a future for each of us, better than what we had. I can only guess that finding the courage and justifying the reasons in one's head for divorce is never easy, especially after decades of marriage with kids. For me (married for 7 years and 1 kid), the moment I realized I will not be able to live happily ever after knowing what my WW was capable of and the history she made, her secrecy/privacy shit and all that, I decided to the take the D path and felt some degree of relief (not divorced yet as she and my son are moving back to USA - we live overseas). The reason was that I knew I had the power to take action and go after the type of living I thought was worthier than what I had and what I would have (because I tend to believe that most cheaters get sad when they get caught, not because they feel guilty of what they committed). SI and the stories here helped me pull myself together and get my thoughts straight and I very happy that it had the same effect on yours, too. By the way, when you talk about "your surprise to your WW", do you mean the divorce papers? I actually think that the problem in your case during the past 1 year could be that you were in false R - did your WW ever wanted to talk to you about what she did? Any lengthy and honest conversations she wanted have with you? I wish you strength and patience during this difficult time.

Trtroles posted 6/15/2017 08:36 AM

English is not my first language,sorry for grammar mistakes.

You are not a failure. I read your words and I see a good man,good husband and especially good father. What your wife did is completly on her. She is the only one to blame.

She was having affair for a long,long time with multiple men. She planned their meetings and what is even worse SHE DIDNT HELP YOU WITH A SICK KID or HER SICK MOTHER.
I have no words for her. To do this to your own children and husband is... oh man.

Divorce her and be happy.Find yourself again. Tell your kids. They are old enough. Dont let her tell bad words about you,she will try and make you look like a bad guy.

She had her fun,she enjoyed it and now she wants you to be perfectly normal about this.

Those friends who supported her during her affair are not your friends. They dont want good for you or your kids.

Best wishes to you. You are a good man.

babypuke posted 6/15/2017 08:46 AM

I am sad that she did this to you, but happy that writing your story here was therapeutic to you and please know that the insights that you conveyed from experience will also be of help to others here, sharing is caring, I thank you and I wish you strength.

From your post I can tell that you are an honorable man who cares about his loved ones and does everything to make them happy and care for their well-being, you even were there for granny (MIL), and nobody - including you - deserves to be betrayed. When you D your WW it is her loss, you have nothing to be ashamed of and should be proud of yourself, you are the prize and will re-find happiness and a better life awaits you. Do not worry too much about your children, after the divorce happiness and safety can return in your home for them and that is a better and more sincere/moral and safer environment for them to grow up in than to grow up among parents who are still together but have marital problems, I know from experience.

I am sad that your wife has the character flaw of being an unempathic egoistic b*tch who did not and continuous to do not value your feelings.

I think you have made up your mind about the divorce and I fully understand you, before you tell her ask yourself one last time whether this is what you actually want at that moment and as a person 5 years from now, and then make your decision and tell or not. Do the same before signing when you have the divorce papers. Essentially, it is about whether you can live with it (and her) or not, as you know.

How to tell her, you can walk up to her any time whenever you want, and say something along the lines "Taking everything into account, I have made up my mind and I have decided that I will divorce you, this because you cheated upon me and betrayed me and shoved all this pain and hurt and sh*t on me and via your actions you accepted the implications of your infidelity to me and our children, you did not value nor protect me or your family as you should have, I hoped to grow old with you and us as a family but in a way that is not possible for me now anymore because of what you did.". Then leave and exit, nothing to talk about anymore and you never asked for this, best is to go to friends.

I wish you strength brother, and update if you want or need to, all the best!

[This message edited by babypuke at 8:59 AM, June 15th (Thursday)]

beauchateaux posted 6/15/2017 08:57 AM

No two human beings are the same, no two affairs are the same and every detail contributes to the final outcome of a situation. Some people, in some situation, can be successful at R.

For others, infidelity is a deal breaker. Who knows - maybe if the circumstances had been different, it might have worked out, but that's neither here nor there. All I'm saying is that there are MANY things which go into a couple being able to R after a trauma like this besides whether or not the BS can 'get over it'.

You have chosen to D, and it sounds like you already know that this is the right path for you. Yes, you were a couple and you did build a life together. She destroyed it with her betrayal, and you don't see yourself planning a future with her anymore. There's NO shame in that - in fact, for many, that is the more difficult choice. I have always thought it royally unfair that the WS can cheat and smash their spouse's world, then get busted, then plead and cry for another chance to 'save our marriage'...and suddenly, it's the BS who must ultimately make the gut-wrenching decision to end the marriage (and devastate the kids) or not. On top of everything else.

You'll have to deal with your wife first. Be as honest as you can, and try to leave the lingering anger at the wayside when you have the conversation. I don't know her so I have no idea how she'll react, but the best case scenario is that you two can agree on a united message for the children. They don't need gory details, just make it your goal - and your wife should, too - to always make sure they know that they are loved by you both, no matter what. I know that sounds very generic in terms of advice, but honestly, I'm a product of a divorced family - these were messages I needed to hear.

I hope your wife takes this news with dignity and acceptance and there is no ugliness. Please keep us posted.

[This message edited by beauchateaux at 9:00 AM, June 15th (Thursday)]

ohforanewme posted 6/15/2017 09:05 AM

Hi burcm

There is such strange comfort in knowing that you are not alone. In terms of how I am going to handle telling her of the decision, that is what I am working on and hoping for suggestions on. I think that your suggestion of actually presenting the D papers with the message is a good one. I am really not trying to hurt her with this. I am past that. The minute I took the decision I began a journey to a new future. There is no going back and I think that if I tell her without the papers she might have a hope that it is just a threat to try and tease out some sort of behavior change. There is nothing she could do now that would make any sort of change. Her actions of a long time back have set the road forward in concrete.

I am beginning to form an image of some of the things that need to be done. Above all else I need to minimise the hurt to the children. I also want to try to get this done as quickly as possible, I want my 'new" to start as soon as possible so will be prepared to agree a reasonable settlement. From the first time, nearly a year ago, that I consulted the lawyer, I know I have a good chance of principal custody. She knows this too.

In terms of your other question. MC 2 was superb and got her give me most of the answers that I needed but not some very crucial ones like how she managed to place AP above her children in such things as mothers day? And of course we did not come anywhere near anything close to a satisfactory why?

I have time on my side. For nearly a week now I have been a changed man. Confident, open, HAPPY.
My biggest concern in getting this done as quickly as possible is that she might see this new me as indicating successful R and give her false hope.

That is the only reason that I don't want to take too long but I am going to take as long as I need to get all the planning to place myself and my kids in the best possible position for a happy, healthy future.

GladforSI posted 6/15/2017 09:19 AM

Oh -- One of the things that I have learned is that the WS's reaction can often be surprising when they are told their BS wants to divorce. You may want to ask yourself what response you may have if she want to:

1. Recommit to the marriage and really open herself up to understand what she did and how to repair it;

2. Get mad and say she will make the divorce miserable since she "has tried";

3. Resign herself to divorce since she cannot find it in herself to atone for her past wrongs;

4. Other ... (As I said the responses are often a surprise.)

Here on SI you will see stories with countless twists and turns in the path of couples, including those that D in relatively short order. And that is OK. It is an essential part of the process.

We are routing for you!

Sanibelredfish posted 6/15/2017 09:23 AM

Wow, ohfor! That is a hell of a ride you've been on. I am so glad that you had people looking out for you to get you the help you needed. It is interesting to me that a coworker physician was able to spot signs of severe depression in you that your WW missed. This makes me seriously question how much she truly cares about you as an individual. Consequently, I think you are doing the right thing by moving to D. Infidelity is frequently a deal breaker and there is no shame in that for you.

Perhaps the 2nd MC could recommend a therapist for the kids once they are made aware you will D. I would imagine he's had similar requests before.

I wish you the best of luck finding happiness, you sound like someone who deserves a string of good fortune.

Sharkman posted 6/15/2017 09:44 AM

She betrayed you in the worst possible way, unilaterally ended the marriage and now doesn't seem horribly remorseful.

I mean, you could try for R if there was this huge beautiful underlying love, history or whatever. Most people choose to walk away because they're better than this crap and deserve better.

Sharkman posted 6/15/2017 09:46 AM

Did you donthe ethical thing and expose her boyfriend at the workplace?

ohforanewme posted 6/15/2017 09:55 AM

Hi All
Thank you all so much for the encouragement and insights. All truly helpful.

Great suggestion about asking MC2 about helping the kids. Might even be worth talking to him about how I tell her. He knows us better than anyone else on earth.

Never told the employer. By the time we started talking, she had left the job. Also never found our his name or position. He must have had the good sense to use a hidden email account as his email address made no sense. The long distance, he was from Canada and that is why he was also put up in the hotel, so they never made any sort of telephone contact so I never had a number I could call. This also prevented me attempting any contact with OBS. Thin it is all too late now.

ohforanewme posted 6/15/2017 10:00 AM

Thanks Gladfor

I would never had thought of those aspects. I have not played out how I think the conversation would go. I now I would have gotten there closer to the time but I also know that I would have had it all planned out I also now know that no matter how I got it planned, it will play out differently. I will dispense with the play acting conversations in my head and just take it as it comes. I will be in a position of strength and confidence so will just keep calm no matter what. Is one of my strengths.

ChamomileTea posted 6/15/2017 10:12 AM

I have been to see the lawyer again. I have begun to piece a comprehensive plan together. I have begun to think through how I can minimise any hurt to the children. I now need to think through how and when I tell her. It is quite ironic. This time I have a dark secret that is going to turn her world upside-down. I have no desire to hurt her in this or use it to extract revenge of any sort. In fact what I am really looking for is thoughts and advice on how I can minimise any hurt and then be supportive in healing the hurt. If you look carefully at my thoughts and plans you will see a fundamental change in my outlook on the world. You will notice that I am beginning to see the faint outline of a possible future for myself and my children.

From your post, I would say that your WW features herself to be somewhat cosmopolitan in her world view. If that's so, I would finalize my plans, take her out to a very posh restaurant, have an enjoyable dinner, then present my divorce proposal in its entirety over dessert.

The "cosmopolitan" cheater thinks they're so much better than the riffraff, you know.. people who get all uptight over old-fashioned ideals like monogamy and not exposing your trusting spouse to STDs. Presented under the auspices of a modern "friends-first" divorce model, she's more likely to be cooperative. I mean, after all, she gets to return to a life of relatively indiscriminate sexual variety and still gets to keep the illusion of ongoing access to your kibble supply.

Once you've got all the i's dotted and the t's crossed on the divorce, then you can dump her... with all the care and compassion she showed you for the YEARS she actively lied and cheated.

Yes. I'm suggesting subterfuge. Hold out the "friendship" carrot, apply the "if-you-were-really-remorseful" whip, and manage her into a compliant divorce by using her own ego against her.

Not nice? Whatevs. Adultery isn't nice either.

I'm really sorry that this happened to you. Believe me, we all understand the pain of it. It's brutal. You gave it a year though, so no one can say you didn't give R a chance. You were never required to do that much, you know that, right? Adultery breaks the covenant.

Thissux posted 6/15/2017 10:14 AM

You write beautifully. I understand how that quote set you off. I keep processing one in my head that fww used quite a bit early on after dday. She would say "it just wasn't worth it". I still get angry about it because it removes any victim status she tried to use. (Om was the aggressor). It has the unmistakable implied meaning that she considered all sides and at one time determined it WAS worth it. Then she was caught and realized it wasn't.
Still infuriating.

TrustGone posted 6/15/2017 10:17 AM

There is no easy way to tell your spouse you want a D. It hurts and it sucks for all involved, except sometimes the WS isn't too hurt. Mine sure wasn't by the time he got the D papers served to him at OW's apartment.

It sounds like she has basically rug sweep her emotions. Going to IC and MC does no good if the WS is not remorseful. Reading books are only as good as the reader interprets them. It sounds like she might be regretful, but remorseful is a whole other thing. It sounds like she was trying in the beginning and then slipped back into this it's all about me and what makes me happy mode. If she doesn't understand the "why", what would stop her from doing it again. If she has no empathy for the pain she has caused then R is not possible.

%'s do not reflect all relationships post-infidelity. It doesn't really take into account a lot of the reason's people stay married. Some file for D immediately, some later after false R, some years down the road. So to say you are in the 30% is not accurate. I think the majority of BS's want to try R, but there are a lot that are not successful due to a lot of different things.

As far as how to tell her, just do it honestly and with integrity. If you think she will think you are bluffing, then have the papers there to give her. Try your best not to let your emotions take over. You now have to look at this as a business deal. Just tell her that you tried, but there is just too much for you to try and forgive. The marriage to her is making you unhappy and that your happiness is the only thing you can control. You will be fair and would like to do it amicably if possible. If she cries do not console her. If she gets angry make sure you have a VAR (voice activated recorder) on and do not react. Walk away at that point and tell her to contact your attorney.

Just know that she might try and convince you she will change. She might give you the water works. She may then get angry and say hurtful things if the tears don't have the effect she wants. Read some of the stories in the D/S forum and you will see that she is not some special snowflake. She is a typical WS who really wants her cake and eat it too. Let us know how it goes. I am sorry you find yourself here, but it's a good group of people that know how you feel. (((HUGS)))

Sanibelredfish posted 6/15/2017 10:25 AM

I really like Cham's suggestion about using your WW's ego and sense of entitlement to your advantage in the D process. Once you've got what you want you can make a clean break from your "new" friend.

I agree MC2 probably has some solid suggestions on breaking the news to her too. Good luck.

Katrina2000 posted 6/15/2017 10:34 AM

I must say that I doubt I could forgive or trust a spouse who did what W did.

My H had a fling with a colleague while on a business trip. The whole thing lasted only a few hours and there was no sex just provocative dancing, groping and making out - all in different bars.

When I found out, I spent an hour with a divorce attorney and managed to separate our finances. We had just set up a family trust and some paperwork didn't go through.

It was all my inherited money that is not community property. I had signed the papers and were in the mailbox when I ran outside and removed these papers, just as the mailman was entering the cul-de-sac. It was quite dramatic.

I still have thoughts like, how could he, what nerve, how dare he stab me and our children in our backs. Did you know that you can contract serious illnesses from open-mouth kissing?

He could have lost his career, his home and his family for some sleazy fun with a very plain skank who he cares nothing about.

Anyway, my point is, can you imagine how I would have reacted had my H done what your W did? I think you'll feel so much better when you are free.

twisted posted 6/15/2017 10:43 AM

Oh, I don't see a lot of info about how the WW has dealt with the MC2 sessions. You seem to think, and I agree, that she might have been in a false R, not really getting the full magnitude of the damage this has caused.
I'd like to ask, before this, were you compatible with your wife? Did you enjoy her personality, her attitude, your sex life, the family dynamics?
Was she a good mother, a pleasure to be around?

I realize this is a lot like asking, " Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"
(not sure you'll get that American reference)

My point is, is there nothing of value that is worth trying further. I'm much further out than you, and my experience is that the pain and anger of the sexual treason will fade eventually, even more than the emotional betrayal. Is she remorseful, but just not doing the right kind of hard work? Do you have any desire left at all to keep the family intact, if (fill in the blank) would happen?
I have been known to be the first to tell guys to get the hell out of there as fast as you can, but something here tells me different.
There are children in the picture, and that complicates things.
My fear is that you have not stepped back far enough to get a healthy perspective, maybe you are over analyzing every aspect and detail, maybe pride and stubbornness are blocking your view. You, (and I) seem like the type.

Only you can decide if it's time to fold your hand and move on, I wish you luck. my friend.

cone5454 posted 6/15/2017 10:48 AM

I am sorry you had to got through that. This is definitely one of the most sordid affair stories I have come across. Your marriage has dealt blows(two long standing at that) that most marriages can't surmount. After such treasury rarely can most be able to effectively reconcile and recuperate all that is lost. You deserve a standing ovation for even considering a discourse most don't even entertain for a femtosecond.

All I can say is keep on the course you are on. Quit expecting change in your wife because personality flaws (disorders) need recognition on the part of the subject if they are to be dealt with. So long as she doesn't see anomalies in her identity that obviously is / has been jeopardizing everything important in her life there isn't anything you can do that will remedy this conundrum. You seem to value pragmatism and logic more so than subjective constructs (most probably of the INTP / J personality type) which also is ought to be applied here. Does it ever make any rational sense to continue on your current discourse knowing that near a third of your marriage has been a complete hoax or every anniversary, valentines day, birthday. mothers day (including the day you were made to sleep on the hospital floor with your daughter while she was tearing your world apart) etc you had for five of your married years were utter subterfuge and will continue to be for however long this sham of a marriage (not of your doing of course) is let to continue. Even if she becomes the model wife here on out would you be able to develop a dissociative amnesia and relinquish the memory of the most anguish you have ever felt that bore out of her choices and doings?

Aside all the abhorrent things that have transpired so far it should by no means preclude you from forgiving her. Forgiveness is mainly for you but of course for her as well. No one can attest about the reputation of the person you married more than you and you don't know that person to be as cruel and manipulative as the new persona that came about. Either something has altered that identity or it was never there in the first place but I don't think anyone would do what she did given a healthy mindset (can't say she is sick either as no professional diagnosis has been disclosed).

Finally please update us once you disclosed your desire to her. It is safe to assume solicitations will (might) be offered and SI can help you in navigating through it. It will also help others to learn from your experience. Anxiously waiting.

Dismayed2012 posted 6/15/2017 11:32 AM

Wow 'ohforanewme'. Great post. I went through a similar realization after about a year or so of depression; that my WW cared less for me and our children than a "snog in the toilet". I'd already D'd but the realization cemented the D as the right choice for me. I can't advise you on how to approach the discussion of D. I sat down with my now ex and calmly told her that choices have consequences and that one of the consequences of her choices is that I don't trust her and I don't want to be married to her anymore. The realization that I could move on from her actions brought the most joy that I think I've ever experienced. My life is more full and happy now than it ever was before or during my marriage. You seem to have come to a similar place. I think you're doing to right thing.

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