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We are done! Just contemplating how to tell her.

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Dancelot posted 6/15/2017 13:08 PM

This post is incredible! Reading this really has opened my eyes and put things in a different perspective. I'm sorry for the hurt you're having to deal with but this is written beautifully. Thank you for posting your story, I believe it will help a lot of people.

ohforanewme posted 6/15/2017 16:59 PM

Dear all
I was hesitant to open up and share but am so glad I did. Apart from being therapeutic I have realised that I need to consider several things that I am certain that I would have overlooked.

I now recognise that there is no way of knowing how she will react. If I want to protect the children and ensure that when they are told it will be in a planed and sensitive way so I cannot risk them being in the house if an explosive, response results.

Was there ever magic. Absolutely, from my perspective, we were the happiest couple in the world, with the best family time one could imagine. I now have to recognise that that was all just illusion. As I reflect back now I begin to see that the kids and I were fully participant in those moments but she often did have a distance that I now only beginning to recognise.

In terms of personality type, yes that was one of the battery of tests and I am reported to be INTP.

I have secured an appointment with the family lawyer for next Tuesday. A full half day to get a full analysis and try and draft a settlement proposal.

We are married under an Ante Nuptial Contract (ANC) (pre nup in US terms) with accrual. What it basically says is everything that each of us came into the marriage with remains ours. Everything accumulated during the marriage is split evenly. My lawyer says not to worry. He is exceptional and I have full faith in him to protect my interests. (Some 2 years ago he represented a high profile celebrity who shot his girlfriend and the defence secured a far better outcome for the accused than had been anticipated. My attorney says that he is pleased that I decided on the D option rather than that other one. He could not take that stress again. Not sure that that is something to make light of but I suppose that he was trying to make a difficult decision easier for me and put it in perspective that the outcome of the D decision, although disruptive will certainly be something to move on from
Thanks again all. Will update when I have taken the next steps

Sanibelredfish posted 6/15/2017 17:27 PM

Ohfor, glad the feedback provided was valuable and appreciate that you will update us when you have the chance.

Also glad to hear you have a bulldog attorney (with a questionable sense of humor ). Not sure if it works the same way in SA, but in the US if you have consultations with other attorneys on the D topic they will not be able to represent your WW in the D due to conflict of interest. If similar rules exist in SA you could consult with the other top firms to prevent your WW from using them against you.

To be honest, I'm eager to hear good things for you, but also looking forward to a little schadenfraude for your WW.

Good luck to you.

GladforSI posted 6/16/2017 07:28 AM

You have made some great steps in advance -- contacting the lawyer to be sure that you know the legal territory, thinking through how to handle it with your kids, etc. Bravo!

I wish in retrospect that I had been better about taking my time as a BS to think through steps.

Good luck!!!

Trtroles posted 6/16/2017 09:54 AM

If she had affairs for so long how does she not know OMs names ? She is protecting them.

They are doing the same things to some other men and their own wives.

Your wife is "unique". You will be much better without her.

Good luck.

Sharkman posted 6/16/2017 10:23 AM

Never told the employer. By the time we started talking, she had left the job. Also never found our his name or position. He must have had the good sense to use a hidden email account as his email address made no sense. The long distance, he was from Canada and that is why he was also put up in the hotel, so they never made any sort of telephone contact so I never had a number I could call. This also prevented me attempting any contact with OBS. Thin it is all too late now.

No it's not. Ask her. If she provides even a moment of hesitation then you can move forward with even more conviction.

ohforanewme posted 6/16/2017 12:20 PM

Isn't it intriguing how effective the shared wisdom of a community with a common experience, and then a little bit of hindsight, is at clearing the mist off one's spectacles? 


I have found such value in the contributions made to my post that I wanted to make sure that I didn’t miss anything. I reread them and then made another discovery. 


There was a reflection on her IC. She was in weekly IC from just after the MC1 till about 3 months ago and now goes once a month. I know nothing of what is discussed in these sessions. When she comes home from them she is always a little introspective and withdrawn. I have thought that this might be due to her processing the guilt for the pain she has inflicted or that she is troubled by the discovery of some deep seated character trait or the discussion of the A has reignited the sense of loss for AP.  The fact that I don't know these answers suggests that there is a problem with communication. 


The fact that a work associate picked up the depression and not WW suggests an issue with communication. 


 The fact that WW was unaware that I was in a dark place two weeks ago indicates a communication issue . 


We have spoken more over the past year than the previous 20. We dealt with disclosure. We struggled through the discussion of the hurt caused.  We have reviewed every memory of the relationship from teen romantic infatuation through early marriage and parenthood to try and build a picture of the worth of the relationship and build a case for me to stay. While in each case the initial memory was warm and pleasant, reflecting on it in the context of the A brought home again the savagery of the murder of the marriage and how precious a thing of mine it destroyed.   This took place between MC one and MC2 while we were trying to move forward on our own.  It did far more damage than good and was almost certainly a contributing factor to the depression.  MC2 explained what we had experienced rather well. He explained that after and A a marriage cannot be saved. It has been raped and murdered. What the aim of the R is a to aim to build a completely new relationship. Doing what we did was like repeatedly going back to the scene of a murder.   


So now we have identified a significant problem with the R. Does that mean that we can now try to get this fixed and again move forward with successful R?  That question is irrelevant. The more relevant question is do I want to? 


The answer is a definitive NO! 


Firstly, this is her job to do.  She made this mess and should be the one doing the work to fix it.   More importantly, for 4 years of dating and over 20 years of marriage I communicated openly, freely and comprehensively with this woman. I shared my hopes, dreams and fears with her I made myself vulnerable to her and what did she do with it? She used it to deceive me and murder my marriage. 


We are so done.


Now I have to deal with 1st father'sday since D Day and not spoil it for the children. There is a whole lot of ache associated with father's day of last year

Chappie posted 6/16/2017 18:37 PM

Can you clarify something? Unless I missed it, you never mentioned anything about her loving her two affair partners. Is that correct. That implies she was just in it for kicks and giggles. It also makes her reactions from IC seem reasonable if the counselor was making a point with her that was troubling. The thing is with her admitting to two affairs, it definitely makes her appear to be a serial cheater. Unfortunately, that probably does mean you have been in a false R all along. Serial cheaters basically cannot be fixed according to many people on various adultery blogs and experts.

When you get time, google serial cheaters and see what you think. In addition, it makes sense to some of her actions like having prepared a plan if caught. Did she go through withdrawal when she had to dump her latest lover? You didn't mention it.
It sounds like she just turned it off without emotion.

If this is true, I think their might have been more than two affairs. She reminds me of a close male friend of mine. Serial cheaters basically can't be fixed with out intense long range IC. Of course this is only speculation but it might help you understand some of the things you are now noticing.

Divorce is tough but I think you are on the right course. I simply don't think she can really love you as she may be incapable.

Good luck and prayers for your family.
Chap

[This message edited by Chappie at 10:19 PM, June 16th (Friday)]

Western posted 6/16/2017 20:13 PM

look, I get you don't want to R and I wouldn't in your situation. 5 year physical affair ? No coming back from that IMO.

The beauty of you is that you are going seperate ways due to your not being able to get over it and you aren't seeking revenge. I am not as classy as you. I would want to inflict some pain.

However, you have a better path forward and I wish you the best of luck and I am appreciative of your posting your story here. It helps others who are in a similar position and how to calculate things.

You deserve better and at least you are protected to an extent.

Move forward my man and don't look back. Hold your head up high. You provided an enormous effort.

Keep forward on your plans. Better days are ahead, sir

Chappie posted 6/16/2017 21:56 PM

I think you should ask your wife for the contact info for her affair partners. Think what it would have meant to you if some one could have clued you in to what was going on earlier. In fact, the only thing you know seems to be what a near professional liar has told you. It's a well worn cliche that when a cheater confesses you will only get the tip of the iceberg. Of course you have all you need but her affair partners have earned exposure and their spouses deserve the truth as much as you do.
It seems odd that she didn't give you the affair partners names etc if she had researched how to reconcile. She thinks she is still playing you. Explains the lack of remorse too.
Again ,good luck.

SAM25nov2016 posted 6/16/2017 23:21 PM

Ohfor - I read your post yesterday and I cried for the pain and depression you had to endure this past year (and still do). I would love to hug and thank your doctor friend - I'm crying again just typing this - he was your earthly guardian angel and a true hero. There are still a lot of good people in this world! Something I have to keep reminding myself of ...unfortunately.

I also wanted to say that as sad as i was initially reading your text by the end of it I was so hopeful for you and a bit envious. You've made a decision and I can tell you feel good about it. And even though I don't know you I felt like you were you again - strong, confident and back on your way to a better future.

I'm close to 7 months out and I'm still in a bad place so reading posts like yours really help.

Thank you for your post.

[This message edited by SAM25nov2016 at 11:22 PM, June 16th (Friday)]

ohforanewme posted 6/17/2017 00:13 AM

Hi Chap.
Thanks for this new insight. I will definitely do that research. She told me that she never fell in love with AP1 (supported by the email evidence) "I was in love with the moment, not OM).

She said that towards the end she thought she was beginning to fall for AP2. Again supported by email evidence,"I think I am falling for you."

When we met the 1st time after separation she arrived with a prepared NC email which acknowledged their selfishness acknowledged the hurt caused to their spouses and the need to try to make things right. That a critical starting point was NC and that she had begun this journey by giving up the job she loved as her family was even more important than it and now the next step was NC. I was allowed to edit it as I wanted and watched her hit send.

I did not discern any lingering heartache after it was sent

Wool94 posted 6/17/2017 05:07 AM

From one stranger to another, the way you've handled this is amazing. I don't have any advice.

I also wanted to say how impressed I was by your Dr friend.

I know you writing this was hard to do, but you have or will help many people.

MadOldBat posted 6/17/2017 13:39 PM

I think that you are handling your situation and your emotions very well.
It almost sounds to me that your WW ( like my STBXWH) was never really "in" your marriage.
Didn't commit like you or I did?

The best advice I received from my SI friends was to
Detach
Detach
Detach

This absolutely helped with my heartache and clear thinking.

Keep calm
Stay strong
Try not to over think things.
I hope that the D conversation goes smoothly ( my serial cheater simply cannot believe that I am divorcing his fabulousness)

MOB

ohforanewme posted 6/17/2017 14:20 PM

Hi Trtroles, Sharkman and Chappie 


Your comments on informing the employer and OBS have caused me to do some serious introspection, especially the comment about how much I would have appreciated it if AP1s OBS had let me know.   


WW did give me both of their first names but that was meaningless to me. They were just anonymous  strangers in some far away corner of the globe and yet they got to share my bed with me.  


To be honest, at the time I didn't have the emotional strength to deal with anything more.  By keeping them anonymous, featureless androids meant that I could at least protect myself from an additional level of pain and emotion.  I did not have to cope with the difficulty of dealing with comparisons. Was he similar or different to me?  How did he laugh, or what was the timber of his voice.   I also recognise that I almost certainly subconsciously was protecting myself from a whole new dimension of hurt.  The dimension of the OBS, the children, the parents and in laws and wider circle of friends.  You have now awakened a feeling of guilt in me for allowing myself not to have compassion for this whole dimension of people who my wife was a party in hurting. 

We had a long conversation this afternoon.  I suggested that to achieve complete rehabilitation of the destruction that was wrought, the elements of wrong against the previous employer and the OBS had to be dealt with.   WW has no way of contacting OBS without again making contact with OM.  I don't know why but the mere thought of her having to make contact with OM instantly filled me with dread and caused a very violent physical reaction resulting in an irregular heart beat, perspiration and dizziness.   Troubling. 


What was agreed is that she will write to the previous employer admitting to what she had done, naming OM, providing information that would allow them to corroborate her statement so that OM could not claim that she was just trying to slander him and indicating that her resignation was her self disciplining for her part in the infarction.   She will then indicate that to fully set things right she needs to confess to OBS and request them either to let her have contact details for the OBS or for them to request OBS to contact her.


Thanks for helping me to man up to this. Much appreciated 

[This message edited by ohforanewme at 1:56 PM, June 18th (Sunday)]

ohforanewme posted 6/19/2017 01:21 AM

Email to previous employer sent by WW.

I was allowed to read and edit the mail and check the email addresses. I insisted that it be sent to both the head of HR of the division that they had worked in as well as the company "Sexual Harassment Hotline". I was concerned that if it meant additional, unpleasant work to a lazy manager and he saw that it had taken place so long ago, he might be tempted to rug sweep. By sending it the the Hotline it gets logged with a serial number and a process of investigation has to follow.

You cannot believe how liberating this feels and to be honest, the sense of justice in doing the "right thing" by the OM that without a moments hesitation so eagerly participated in the rape and murder of my marriage.

I really hope that the company does something with this.

Sharkman posted 6/19/2017 06:03 AM

She never had feelings for OM1 and if she did they have been replaced by OM2. She may have already warned him so hold off on asking your wife more. If you have his name and city of residence there is a 99% chance that you can find her name.

Your second MC was correct. If there is even a chance of a new marriage you need to also burn the old one to the ground. A purification process. Exposure is the match that burns the house down.

She's lying to you about having LITERALLY NO WAY to find out the spouse's name without first contacting him. This is her way of protecting him. Does this sound like something that you can build upon?

Also by exposing without letting her know you'll QUICKLY find out if they have been communicating or have a back channel was of communicating. You'll also very quickly find out if she's still putting him first if she is angry. A remorseful wife will be enthusiastic you've taken steps to heal.

meridian posted 6/19/2017 07:02 AM

So are you now hoping that you can save your marriage or are you still determined to D ?

Trtroles posted 6/19/2017 08:56 AM

Sorry for grammar mistakes,English is not my first language.
You are a lucky man because you have good friends and work colleagues around you.
Dont compare yourself to other men. They are nothing,absolutely nothing.
What worries me is your wife. She cheated for a long,long time with multiple men and now she wants you to "move on". It happend,we went for a month or two for IC and now it is time to move on. She has no idea what she done to you. She got no clue about pain you suffered.
When you serve her with Divorce papers be ready for river of tears.
Good luck to you. You deserve happines.

ohforanewme posted 6/19/2017 09:07 AM

Hi Sharkman

I am now so determined to shred the little buggers world apart. Cannot imagine why I left this so long.

I will wait and see what the response from the previous employer is. I have decided that if they are not forthcoming with OBS contact details I have another way of getting them. I am an exec with a large, diverse and interesting company. One of the BUs in the company is a security company that specialises on background checks. They have helped me out on personal matters before. I am sure that they will be able to get me the details. I am now hoping that the little slime ball loses his job. I want this to come out of the blue as the biggest surprise of his life and don't want to give him any forewarning. Contacting his wife might just give him that warning. I want to do the homework so that if my wish comes true, I can make contact with OBS on the day so that when he gets home from losing his job she will know why and he won't be able to spin her a yarn.

I have decided that if I don't get a satisfactory response from the previous employer I am going to make their life a little interesting. I had a chat to one of our corporate attorneys this morning. She says that while the likelihood of me winning a case would be slim there is a good chance that I could launch a case against them for their part in the destruction of my marriage through either the creation of the environment that fostered it, or the failure through negligence to take sufficient action to prevent it, or some other complex legal jargon. She said that she will begin to draft a legal letter from me to fire off if they do not get back to us within a week with a commitment to act.

Meridian, no, definitely no thought at all of trying again. As I said, we are done. See the family attorney tomorrow. He has his morning booked out for me.

I am hoping that I can get my ducks in a row to be able to break the news to her by the end of the month. At the moment I am still playing Charades but cant go on for much longer. (She is clearly more skilled at it than me). I buggered up Father's day for my kids yesterday. Blew up at WW when she gave me a card and a present, against an agreement we had put in place that this year she would have no part in it, only the kids. If you do the maths you will see that Father's day last year fell in the middle of the few weeks of what should have been D Day when she got off the plane and actual D Day. Last year she put on the biggest show for Father's day ever. Said it was to try and take the families mind off Gran being in ICU. All it was was her desperately trying to lay down an even thicker smoke screen in the hope that my memory of who had answered the telephone would be lost in the stress of the moment.

The kids are bright and know something is up so I can't let this go on too long.

Dealing with the financial matters and settlement drafting tomorrow and will then get onto the tactical planning.


[This message edited by ohforanewme at 9:27 AM, June 19th (Monday)]

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