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We are done! Just contemplating how to tell her.

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sassylee posted 7/3/2017 20:27 PM

Deb - your path and your choice. You need to respect the choices of others.

Women who are drugged and raped - learn of the rape and want the perp prosecuted. They still want to know what was done to them.

Your path to healing is what YOU needed. Others are different. This can't be a one size fits all.

wordsofwisdom posted 7/3/2017 20:34 PM

Deb, we all feel your pain. Why wouldn't you start your own thread?

[This message edited by wordsofwisdom at 8:39 PM, July 3rd (Monday)]

Deb346 posted 7/3/2017 20:42 PM

I do not need to start my own thread. I believe bad advice was shared and I have every right to share this. I still dont understand what any of this has accomplished?
I think you are misunderstanding about how information was shared. Once again..how is it helpful to hear from spouses friends sordid details about your spouse?
Im not implying you should do nothing rug sweep and stay married. I am suggesting that too much ugly information is hurtful and what was the end result? Vindication?

Deb346 posted 7/3/2017 20:47 PM

Words of Wisdom
Your off putting remarks about my pain are telling. Look at your posts and then offer me some advise.

[This message edited by Deb346 at 9:05 PM, July 3rd (Monday)]

ramius posted 7/3/2017 21:05 PM

Some people rip off the Band-Aid.

Some people slowly peel off the Band-Aid.

Some people watch during a blood draw.

Some people look away.

Whatever works for them.

Oh.....if hearing the details is therapeutic for you then ok. If you feel it's not helping then just tell the GF's to zip it.

I hope your STBXW can pull it together for the kids and be a good co-parent.

Sanibelredfish posted 7/3/2017 21:39 PM

Deb, you are in ohfor's thread kind of flailing around arguing with people who disagree with your take on the situation. That's not really the point of this site (as I tried to politely point out earlier), yet here we are again...

Anyway, I wasn't bullying you then nor am I now, rather I'm suggesting that if you can't help support ohfor you should choose another thread to post in. I suspect moderators would tell you something similar.

Because my replying to you on this topic only diverts attention from ohfor I'm going to stop replying to you unless you want to start your own separate thread.

40YOSL posted 7/3/2017 21:58 PM

Oh,

I've followed your thread and the hell that you were put through. I'm generally for R if possible but in your WW case I can see why it wasn't possible. I don't believe you can successfully R if the wayward isn't truly remorseful and so far I don't believe she has a clue what remorse is. Even now with her weeping, it is nothing but regret that she has put herself in this position and the consequences she must now face.

You said after D day she accumulated a large quantity of materials on helping a spouse heal. Did she actually read them or were they for you to figure out how to heal yourself? It almost sounds like she thought that if she acquired a large enough pile of material and it weighed enough then you certainly should be able to heal and you both could then just forget her unpleasant actions. If she did read them and still never shed tears for that entire time until you announced D then she clearly never had any concerns about what you were feeling and she's truly lacking in empathy. A remorseful WS would internalize your pain and be weeping because of the pain they realize they had inflicted upon the person they loved and would be willing to do anything to stop or lessen your pain.

I'm very glad you were instrumental in informing his employer of his immoral and illegal actions. I'm certain they appreciated being informed of an employee who was not only monetarily cheating them but at the same time endangering the employer's image. By his dismissal you not only helped the employer, you may have also prevented OM from replacing WW with another coworker. If it hadn't been for his dismissal it sounded like the OBS might not have believed what you were telling her. It was her ability to ask for WH's dismissal confession that stopped her WH's lies.

I'm so glad you took the time to inform the OBS. It really bothers me when a BS doesn't inform an OBS. I feel that is important for so many reasons. It puts another set of eyes looking to see that the A doesn't restart or go underground. The OBS can provide information to compare against the story WS is telling. Informing the OBS to what is going on in their M is absolutely the decent thing to do. It alerts them to a major problem in their M and may prevent them from getting an STD or cause them to discover an STD their WS had already given them. It may literally save their life.

The A with OM1 was killed because his wife found out but she neglected to inform you. If the A would have been exposed to you at that point things might have turned out differently. Your marriage might have actually survived. Instead your WW was emboldened. She had her jolly's and nothing bad happened so the next time would be even easier.

I don't believe you are doing things to purposely harm your STBX. In fact the actions you have taken on her behalf show just the opposite. I'm sending you strength for you and STBX meeting with the children. I'm certain that will be very difficult and emotional for you all.


william posted 7/4/2017 01:32 AM

ive more or less stayed off this thread because i think hes doing a good job. when i see something i disagree with i post.

why expose om to work? because he did wrong, it was a crime. misappropriation of funds is criminal. work agreed.

why expose ww to work? because she did wrong and participated in the crime. but also because exposure ends affairs. because it was the right thing to do morally.

exposure is also a consequence. the exposure isnt the problem, thd action that could be exposed was the problem. pointing out crappy and immoral behavior is a civic service, imo.

the main thing i disagree with now is that hes getting a stream of status reports on ww. he doesnt need that. the risk isnt she talks him into false r, that wont happen since hes se on d. shes crashing and veering way into crazy land and its not his circus not his monkeys. there is a real risk the drama increases and he gets sucked into it. his participation (even indirectly via 2 well meaning friends) can fuel her drama/attention seeking which will escalate it and that can hurt him and the kids. best to detach, less intetaction (even indirectly) and this starve the ww drama show of what it wants and needs - attention.

i exposed when it served a purpose and could be useful. one guy lost his govt credentials as a psychologist. the bartender i didnt bother exposing, the bar wouldnt care. i told obs for 2 guys, the rest were single.

you know he wanted the info on the affairs for his healing. i have 3 notepads filled with notes. i wanted the details too.

some dont want to know. some do. we are all different and we all need different things to heal. his needs are no less valid or less acceptable than not wanting to know all the details.

BJE49 posted 7/4/2017 02:36 AM

Ohforanewme, when you meet your EXWW on Friday make sure all you talk about is how you both are going to tell the kids and nothing more, don’t get pulled into any other conversation, nip it right in the bud straightaway if she tries to veer off the subject.

AS for the 2gf’s you are in contact with, I agree with others that you need to break contact with them also, and I think you should explain to them your reasons why, they know you have done more than most would do in putting things in place to look after your EXWW, it’s time for you to really detach away from your wife and them for you all to move on, it’s for the best.

Regards BJE49

MidnightRun posted 7/4/2017 02:57 AM

Did posters not read ohfor's last post?

The marriage is over.

Done.

Period.

ohforanewme posted 7/4/2017 05:32 AM

Firstly, let me again say happy 4th to all the SI community from the US. There are a host of US expat families in our neighbourhood so our skies are going to be lit with spectacular displays this evening, so know that I will be celebrating right along with you.

Last night, after great progress with the strip and clean project I ran myself a long, hot, lavender scented bubble bath and let the grease and oil slowly lift from the pores.

Quickly, on the Jazz project, the rear wheel bearings don’t sound as sweet as I would like them to so they will be replaced. Also, the clutch most probably would have needed to be replaced in the next 20 000 kilometres or so but that is of no consequence. To be able to put any sort of decent power down you have to put in a more robust clutch. Apart from that, the rest of her is in immaculate condition, so the perfect platform for my project.

After the bath I had a wonderful sleep, was at gym well before sunrise, 2 early meetings as I got to the office and when I finally got to the desk I thought I would check in with SI. The thread had grown by 2 pages overnight. My reading of this is it is such a graphic demonstration of the real care and concern of the SI community. That strangers, from across the globe, can be interested in me and my seemingly insignificant personal drama, gives me such a sense of encouragement. I read each post and I try to interpret, understand and learn from each.

You know that the post from Bigger hurt me. It hurt quite deep. It hurt because I have never seen a post by Bigger where he was wrong. He puts so much wisdom, care and compassion into each of his posts. The hurt actually came from the fact that he was right. The raw animal hurt in my soul is demanding that I tie WW to a stake. That I personally strike the match and light the tinder under her. Bigger warned not to let the raw animal ever be given the power over my decisions. To do that would be wayward thinking. Only wayward thinking choses to do the wrong thing, choses to ignore the obvious destruction that is inevitable, when what is right it is so obvious. So after Bigger’s post I have made an extra effort to look out for the raw animal hurt and put additional barriers in place to try and make sure that it is never given control of my decisions. It is still there. I have not yet forgiven WW. It feels like I am still a million miles from ever being able to do that, but I have a sneaking suspicion that I am closer than I think.

With his guidance and that of so many others I have made every effort to put support in place. Have early warning systems and share openly my plans and outcomes so that you all can be my additional conscience.

In dealing with WW I recognised the nightmare of TT. I tried to counter this. I had the full settlement proposal so that for every question that I could anticipate there would be a clear, unequivocal answer. That the extent of the planning, and clear evidence of action taken, would show the extent of the resolve to D and not create false hope.

I have taken no pleasure in my WWs suffering and if I have framed any post in such a way please would you point this out to me so that I can edit and correct. In WW’s anguish of Friday evening there was no gloating, no, ah! At last you have some insight into what you have inflicted on me. There was herb tea, a gentle hand on shoulder, a hot shower and medication to help with sleep.

I freely admit that much of the feedback given to me by 2BF has been cathartic. Not the bits about what a good lover I used to be or that the A sex was not great. We all here know that that is utter BullS, it is often suggested in posts by WS that the sex in an A was the best ever and it is my personal belief that even in a successful R, that then lasts a lifetime, the WS can never give the BS, sexually, what they gave and got from the AP. That is one of the things that the BS accepts, forgives and moves on from. No, the cathartic bits were the filling in of some of the blanks about A1, getting further insight into WW’s personality and who the woman that I loved and married really was and recognising only now that there is brokenness. Yes, fixing the brokenness in her is not my burden but I do need to keep watch on effort and progress there, because of the potential effects it could have on the 2 most precious people in my life.

I take no pleasure in hearing about the seeming emotional melt down of WW. This has never has been my objective. I have tried, but clearly not been as successful as what I had hoped to be, in communicating how fully liberated and in control I have felt since making my decision after the “snog in the toilet” post. Admittedly, I did have the very bad day sometime after that, but you folk picked me up, helped me dust myself off and we are back on the road. There will be bad days ahead. Of that I am sure. But none of them will be because of my decision to D. That is certainly one of the better decisions that I have ever made in my life. SI helped me come to that point. I will always be indebted. I have been liberated from the emotional connection to WW. The emotional meltdown is a concern only as it might affect the children and until I am certain that she has recovered I will take extra care during the time that they spend with her.

There are a number of reasons that I post on SI. For me the most important is that I find it so therapeutic. The mechanical act of taking a thought and then putting it on paper helps me to structure, analyse and process it.

The second reason is that I get so much good advice and understanding.

The third is a very real hope that by sharing my experience I will be able to help others in the way that I have been helped by the willingness of some of the other brave souls in the SI community to share their personal stories. I know that each of us are different and different people’s posts will be experienced differently by every reader. In my early days as lurker, I was struggling, hurt, confused, directionless, not even attempting to think of a future. It was reading Neveragin’s thread and seeing the absolute calm under fire that brought me to the realisation that I wanted to be that person. That I could be that person. That I could make decisions on my life and my future. And I have! Forever indebted.

It was reading the post of a WW under the name Blitzkrieg that brought me to the understanding of why R was never going to be a possibility in our relationship. Reading Blitz’s anguish and concern for her H and the hurt that she would be inflicting on him, I realised that that was a critical requirement of a WS in R and that it was just not present in my WW.

If any aspect of my posting hurts you in your journey to healing please let me know and I will try and explain myself better so as to turn it around to be help rather than hinder.

On another concern raised, I am not doing the “pick me dance”. On D Day, I threw her out. Never sulked, begged or pleaded. It was her who came back having resigned, with the NC letter with the IC and MC appointments made. She was trying some form of pick me dance. I have never been a good dancer.

WRT OBS, we committed to support each other through the calls, until we get to the point where we no longer need them. I think that both of us are closer to that point than we realise. OBS has made a clear and informed decision. She has a phenomenal support system and is already actively planning a new future with DD.

WRT the informing of the employer, I notice that a number of folk have misunderstood the purpose and goal of that action. The sole original objective was to be able to inform OBS. If you read the early posts, I made every excuse in the book to try and weasel out of doing the right and honourable thing, but after being called out by the SI community, I had to recognise how much I would have appreciated it if OBS1 had shown me the same courtesy.

Of the consequences? WW now thanks me for requesting her to do it. Remember, I suggested, but it was she that did it, not under duress. She now recognises that if AP2 knew about it others might as well, and at some stage it would have come out, and she could have faced the career destruction that she has now been given indemnity for.

You will remember that at one time I revelled in the prospect of being able to inflict hurt on AP2 for what I saw him as having inflicted on me and my marriage. Even at the time, the rational side of my brain warned that there would be no joy in the outcome. There has not been. Through your coaxing and guiding I recognise that AP2 is just some, insignificant prop in the real life drama of the rape and murder of my marriage. It was my WW that produced, directed and took the leading role in it. It is all on her.

AP2 takes that responsibility in terms of his BS, DD and marriage. In all honesty, I reflect with great sadness on the thought that 13 000 kilometres away, there is a broken, 54 year old man who has lost his career, his wonderful wife, his precious daughter, his home and the respect of his family. Is that on me? No!

While I was a fence sitter on the question of should you tell the OBS about the A, recognising that I would have appreciated it if OBS 1 had told me, I am now on the team of tell, tell, tell! It is in fact your obligation to.

While I now believe, absolutely, that it is an obligation to inform the OBS so that they can make informed choices about their life, there is a current thread running in the WS forum where the WS’s are making the point very strongly, that for a wayward to heal and become a whole and healthy person it is imperative to disclose. As I read their thread, I hear them saying that, while I might feel awful for any part that I played in AP2 being where he is today, my call to OBS is very likely critical to him actually becoming a whole and healthy human being.

I recognise that each of us here in this forum are still dealing with the most awful hurt and grief. Each of us have vastly different personalities, our relationships were different and the nature of the As were different, but each of us are grieving the loss of the most wonderful person that we have ever known. I was reflecting over this past week. I recognised that if there had not been the early morning call, and if WW had climbed on the plane heading home, and I had been waiting at the airport when the announcement came that the plane had gone down, WW would still have been the same person, but I would have felt the most incredible grief. That would have been understandable and I would have allowed myself to grieve for that person. At some point I believed that my WW had been that wonderful person and somehow that person had died and a monster had grown up in her place. After processing this I was about to allow myself to begin to grieve for the loss of that precious person. I am now realising that WW was never that person. I am seeing more clearly every day that she has been selfish and self-centred through our entire relationship. I was so in love that I created a thin facade of who I wanted her to be. Now that the facade is torn away I did not want to allow myself to grieve because, how do you grieve over pure fiction? But the grief is still very real. Even if it was just my self-constructed facade, I loved deeply and it is lost forever. So I will grieve, deal with it and move forward.

Thanks for your patience, posting and for listening. But mostly, thanks for caring.

[This message edited by ohforanewme at 3:09 PM, July 4th (Tuesday)]

DarkHoleHeart posted 7/4/2017 06:15 AM

I recognise that each of us here in this forum are still dealing with the most awful hurt and grief. Each of us have vastly different personalities, our relationships were different and the nature of the As were different, but each of us are grieving the loss of the most wonderful person that we have ever known. I was reflecting over this past week. I recognised that if there had not been the early morning call, and if WW had climbed on the plane heading home, and I had been waiting at the airport when the announcement came that the plane had gone down, WW would still have been the same person, but I would have felt the most incredible grief. That would have been understandable and I would have allowed myself to grieve for that person. At some point I believed that my WW had been that wonderful person and somehow that person had died and a monster had grown up in her place. After processing this I was about to allow myself to begin to grieve for the loss of that precious person. I am now realising that WW was never that person. I am seeing more clearly every day that she has been selfish and self-centred through our entire relationship. I was so in love that I created a thin facade of who I wanted her to be. Now that the facade is torn away I did not want to allow myself to grieve because, how do you grieve over pure fiction? But the grief is still very real. Even if it was just my self-constructed facade, I loved deeply and it is lost forever. So I will grieve, deal with it and move forward.

I don't know what to say. Just wanted to highlight this. You are telling my story.

josiep posted 7/4/2017 08:18 AM

At some point I believed that my WW had been that wonderful person and somehow that person had died and a monster had grown up in her place. After processing this I was about to allow myself to begin to grieve for the loss of that precious person. I am now realising that WW was never that person. I am seeing more clearly every day that she has been selfish and self-centred through our entire relationship. I was so in love that I created a thin facade of who I wanted her to be. Now that the facade is torn away I did not want to allow myself to grieve because, how do you grieve over pure fiction? But the grief is still very real. Even if it was just my self-constructed facade, I loved deeply and it is lost forever. So I will grieve, deal with it and move forward.

Now that my WH has moved to TX to be with his one true love, I needed a new obsession to replace my spending every waking moment thinking about him and what he was doing. And I found it here on SI - I read it every chance I get because it's keeping me sane, giving me hope and helping me understand. Finally, an obsession that's good for me.

Like most of my fellow travelers here, my thoughts jumble around in my brain and I sometimes feel like I'm approaching an insight but can't quite pull it out and get it. But the quote above enlightened me so much -- my WH was a jerk when he was young. A "bad boy" if you will. But I was young and in love and just sure I could change him and fix him. And it seemed like I did. For a very, very long time. But a funny thing happened after he was forced into early retirement and his parents passed away - he started being that jerk again, unkind, willing to lie and cheat about little stuff, etc. But I stayed by his side, tolerating hostility on occasion and putting up with his refusal to engage in life activities, including adventures with our grandchildren. In my mind, he was depressed and going through a low point in his life due to the losses he suffered. But now I see that this is the real him, he doesn't have to put on a front for his career or his parents.

So I believe I can quit explaining him now.

Thanks for sharing your insight. It helped me a lot!

MidnightRun posted 7/4/2017 08:29 AM

So many of us are emotionally invested in your story because of your ability to vividly describe the pain and challenges we've all experienced.

I didn't have the presence of mind to process properly, relying instead on 'animal instincts'. The mind movies were relentless.

To be sure, affair sex in most cases is always better because it's illicit.

But sexual fantasies should have been explored within the marriage, not with some convenient smuck.

Usually the thrill vanishes once the affair is revealed.

I, too, came to accept that the woman I had held in high esteem was little more than a chameleon.

I, too, went through a grieving process for a relationship I 'thought' was precious.

I, too, felt like part of me had died.

And, yes, I also went through the long process of righting the ship.

Looking back, I no longer feel anger.

Instead, I feel a deep sorrow for a person who ultimately proved to be shallow, so devoid of principle--so in need of cheap tricks to make her life complete.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 10:23 AM, July 4th (Tuesday)]

SisterMilkshake posted 7/4/2017 14:48 PM

It hurt because I have never seen a post by Bigger where he was wrong. He puts so much wisdom, care and compassion into each of his posts. The hurt actually came from the fact that he was right.
Yes, Bigger is awesome. He helped a lot when I first came to SI. He has shared with you what I wanted to share with you. I am glad you are taking that to heart.
or that the A sex was not great. We all here know that that is utter BullS, the sex in an A is always the best ever and it is my personal belief that even in a successful R, that then lasts a lifetime, the WS can never give the BS, sexually, what they gave and got from the AP. That is one of the things that the BS accepts, forgives and moves on from.
Sorry, no, "We" all don't know or believe this. This is a generalization. Honestly, how can you know this? You really don't. You can believe what you like, but to make such a statement as if it is factual is unfair to many. It is unfair to those newbies that want to reconcile and then to read this, well, it must be countered with the truth of this is just not a factual statement but a generalization. And, you have no way of knowing anything about reconciliation as that is not your path and, in truth, never was your path because it was a dealbreaker for you. As it is for many and rightly so. But, one does not have to invalidate the truth of reconciliation for your truth to be valid.

Wishing you much peace and serenity on your healing journey, ohforanewme.

ohforanewme posted 7/4/2017 15:15 PM

Sistermilkshake

I hope that the edit frames the statement more accurately

NeverAgain99 posted 7/4/2017 16:36 PM

Ohfor,

We are damned if we do, damned if we don't. I'll be damned then in my own damn way. I see it's the same for you.

Keep on keepin' on. You do you.

Salud!

Tearsoflove posted 7/4/2017 16:37 PM

We all here know that that is utter BullS, it is often suggested in posts by WS that the sex in an A was the best ever and it is my personal belief that even in a successful R, that then lasts a lifetime, the WS can never give the BS, sexually, what they gave and got from the AP.

I think that the sex you have in the moment is the best sex you've ever had until the next. A WS in the throes of an affair is in a fantasy which includes the sexual aspect. Because they fantasize about the affair partner in general, it only makes sense that they would also fantasize about the sexual aspects. However, if my husband is to be believed, once reality intrudes on fantasy, the sex becomes as shameful and dirty as the remainder of the affair (in a truly remorseful spouse).

However, just to be sure that there was no remaining wishful thinking or belief that the affair sex was more exciting or better than ours, I had sex with him on his motorcycle. I'm fairly certain there is no memory of any sexual event he will ever have that can top that.

devotedman posted 7/4/2017 19:09 PM

While I'm not going to quibble about how you said things, ohforanewme, I do hope that those posters who quoted your phrases with which they had issue will now go back and edit those quoted phrases.

Because now the only place that your words exist are in their quotes, don'tchaknow?

Keep on keeping on!

P.S., welcome to the I Can Relate forum Betrayed Menz Part ?? thread. Please take pictures of your ongoing car saga. That would be cool.

[This message edited by devotedman at 7:10 PM, July 4th, 2017 (Tuesday)]

SisterMilkshake posted 7/4/2017 19:20 PM

devotedman, why would I do that? Than my post would make no sense. Yeah, no, not going to edit.

I can't believe you felt that was a 2x4, ohforanewme. It certainly wasn't. Just wanted to clear up for those that want to reconcile that what you had posted is not the way it is for most of us who have reconciled and have experience with reconciliation.

Sorry if you felt I came across with a 2x4. Not my intent at all.

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