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We are done! Just contemplating how to tell her.

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k94ever posted 7/10/2017 10:55 AM

You guys are going to be alright.


k9

ohforanewme posted 7/10/2017 11:47 AM

I want to use this post to say thanks. I would have liked to be able to name and thank each of you for your comment or contribution that brought me some joy or comfort. Unfortunately, doing that would make this post inordinately long, so please know, as you read this, that you are each being individually thanked.

Thanks firstly to all those who have so generously and warmly complimented my 2 precious people. I can only agree with you. Their actions have made my heart swell with pride.

As I write this, the tears are streaming down my cheeks. But for the first time in a very long time these tears have none of the saltiness of sadness. No, these are the sweet tears of pure joy.

When I arrived home this evening DD had drawn up a menu for the next 2 weeks, looked through the cupboards and seen which ingredients would be required but that we don’t have, and written out a shopping list for me. They have volunteered to do all the cooking until they go back to school.

UglyBetty, your compliment on my writing brought a smile of pride on behalf of my mom. If mom had read your post she would have been so proud of her boy. My love of language and the written word was engendered by Mom. Mom was a teacher and so spent all school holidays with us. These days all began with 2 boys, sneaking into mom’s bed, one brother cuddled up on each side, and her reading to us. This lasted well into teenage-hood. She read the full suite of Enid Blyton, but she also read all of Jane Austin’s works as well as most of the classics. Tale of Two Cities still haunts my memory. The courage of Carton resonates with me to this day.

Also, please don’t worry about the temporary tarnish that AP2 inflicted on my view of Brand Canada. Through literally hundreds of encounters, that have all been consistently pleasant, I have come to know Canadians as the warmest people on earth. We also know that he is just masquerading as a Canadian. We know that so many WS are in fact aliens just in a human cloak.

I would also like to thank all of you who expressed concern about my health. Due to the relatively high prevalence of syphilis on the continent (particularly in the trucking community) that is something that is always tested in a full STD screen here, and I was tested for it in the initial screen, after discovery. I am clean.

Wonderful WW was so concerned about me that she took her own “scientifically reliable” approach to ensuring that she protected my health from her dalliance. She got herself cleaned up and for a year after that went for regular screens. Belief being, that if she then got infected again she would know that she had given it to me, if not then she would have comfort that I was clean.

Oh the wiring of the wayward brain. Wouldn’t it make for an interesting neuro study? Think we should all crowd fund some sort of CAT scan research of our wayward’s brains. Think of what a contribution it would be to society if we could identify the brain characteristics of the typical wayward then, before anyone proposes or accepts a proposal you get their brain scanned. It they have the wayward wiring you just walk away and save yourself a whole lot of hurt.

yearsofpain25 posted 7/10/2017 12:34 PM

Hi ohforanewme. Hope you don't mind me adding a bit of my .02 rand here.

DD screamed at her, “I hate you!” and ran down the passage to her room. WW ran after her and tried to sit on the bed to comfort her. DD just kept kicking her violently away. I felt so powerless. The 2 women that had been the most important in my life, thrashing at each other and hurting each other. I had no clue of what to do. I led WW gently away. DS at least let her give him a hug but then said, “I think you should go now,” DS then went and lay next to DD and just hugged her.

Jawelnofine. I work with a few South African's who have said this to me after telling them there was more work to do...

I'm a betrayed child myself (now an adult and father of 3) which is why I'm here on SI. I came here searching for answers and worked through my own infidelity issues that I had not healed from here on SI. I can give you a bit of insight as to how your kids MAY feel. I can tell you from my own experience as well as talking with other bc here that they are feeling many of the same emotions of betrayal that you are.

Trust - After I caught my mother in one of her As and had to tell my father, the very first thing to go was trust. I never trusted my mother again. How could I possibly trust someone who would bring an outsider into my family in this capacity? She's a liar.

Self Blame - What about me is it that my mother had to do and seek happiness somewhere else?

Abandonment - Did I make her that unhappy that she would want to leave the family or at a minimum look somewhere else to be happy? My mother chose to leave the family and really didn't want us. She doesn't really love us. Not really and she showed this with her actions.

Disrespect - She's going to disrespect the family well then fuck her. Give me a license to disrespect her right back. She's very apathetic as she has no concern or regards for this family.


The above is just a tiny taste of what goes through a bc. But you already know this. All the above sound familiar? That's the point is that you can apply what feelings that you have had and know that that's also what your kids are going through and then skew their feelings to age appropriate black and white thinking. Right vs. wrong. Many times a sense of righteousness will kick into overdrive for them when dealing with your xWW. The sexual aspects can even be an issue. I may not have known the word emasculation at the age of 16 but I could certainly see and understood some of the effects on my father.

One thing that my father would not tolerate was disrespect from me towards my mother. He understood that I was hurting but that did not give me a license to tell my mother to "Fuck off!!!" Yep. I went there. My father made it crystal clear that he would not tolerate any disrespect from me. He also didn't give me any healthy options for redirecting my anger in a healthy way, which I have a feeling that you work with your kids on that stuff. The car project is an excellent way to take action and channel anger/negative energy. While working on said project let the kids know that your xWW will always be their mother and parent and that no level of disrespect will be tolerated. Then you back that up with your own actions by not talking ill about xWW. Easier said than done I'm aware. One of the things that I respected about my father is he never once spoke poorly of my mother. My mother spoke poorly of my father all the time. I never forgot that either of my parent's actions in this area.

What you can clue your xWW in on is that her actions will dictate what sort of relationship she has with her kids going forwards. You can let your xWW know that you will not tolerate disrespect towards her from your kids and that you will also take the high road when speaking of her, but that fixing the damaged relationships with her kids is on her. That is not an area that you can really help in. Your xWW will have to put in work and communicate with her kids in order to repair the damage. This is not something that can be forced or happen over night. But all those things that you read about on here at SI about reconciliation can also apply to her earning back your kids trust. That is going to be a mountain of work for your xWW to slog through with your kids. She could even start with downloading an app like Life360 to show them where she is at all times. Her sending photos of where she's at who's she's with, etc. Things that maybe you didn't get or she eased off on because she thought she was getting comfortable in R with you. Things of that nature. You can clue her in that she needs to do that stuff but it is all on her. The only person that can help her in this area is herself.

As far as what you can do, I'm sure you are already doing it. But communication is key. From time to time let them know what you are thinking. Let them have some say in the decision making. Let them express themselves. Let them talk. If they are not willing to go first, then you go first. Not every day of course as you don't want to overload them. Maybe once a week to start. I did Fri night dinners for a while and now I check in with my wife and kids about what's going on with me once a month or even less these day. Those issues I mentioned above, I brought those into my other relationships. I'm sure I did some damage to my marriage. Neither of us never cheated but I certainly brought my issues with me. Also, something you can work on with them later in life with their own relationships...infidelity. When you have a parent that has cheated, it almost gives the next generation "permission" to cheat. If it was good enough for the parent, then it should be good enough for the next one. I come from a long line of cheaters that I can trace all the way back to my great grandfather, my grandmother, my uncle, my mother...this shit stops with me.

Hope you don't mind me throwing my .02 in here. As a parent I know it can be difficult to take advice regarding your kids.

yop

yearsofpain25 posted 7/10/2017 12:38 PM

cross posted with ya. Sounds like DD is taking control in her own way. That is great. Keep working with her.

I believe at one point you said your kids have IC?

yop

Stevesn posted 7/10/2017 13:14 PM

YearsOfPain. That was an enlightening and invaluable perspective you have given. Such insight

Stevesn posted 7/10/2017 13:20 PM

And OhFor, your kids just made me cry. You guys are going to be a great team.

(But Give them a break every few days and go out to dinner. You all deserve it).

MidnightRun posted 7/10/2017 13:35 PM

So very happy you and children are making the transition.

I was totally heartbroken at what DD and DS endured. They are absolutely wonderful and are so fortunate to have you as a dad.

Now, too, there's tears of joy, instead of pain.

Your stbxw will never be same, and hopefully for the best.

Good luck, and God speed.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 1:36 PM, July 10th (Monday)]

ohforanewme posted 7/10/2017 13:44 PM

YoP

Jawelnofine

Is the perfect summation of what is required now. It is a single word that encapsulates the concepts of resigning one's self to the current reality, acceptance that it is what it is and then committing to the perseverance that will be required to do the necessary.

Jawelnofine, at last I think I am up to that.

Your insight is invaluable. I will read it daily am work to apply it. The kids will be going to MC2 for several sessions over the next few weeks and we will keep it going for as long as necessary. I will discuss your post with him as well.

For now they have elected to go together. MC2 says that for now he is fine with that but at some stage would like them individually. I trust his judgement

Thanks again

beauchateaux posted 7/10/2017 13:50 PM

Reading a thread about a BS detaching from their WS after reaching their limit on pain is often cathartic for other BSes in several ways (sometimes I think especially for those of us who have decided to R and struggle with the decision). Sometimes you live vicariously through them, sometimes you cheer when you read about unremorseful WSes getting what's coming to them.

Every once in awhile though, I read a post that hammers home the fact that at its heart and core, this stuff is TRAGIC. For everyone involved. And so, so senseless. All this devastation, for literally nothing. No one will be haunted by this knowledge more than your WW, and reading your post - even though I think she's reaping exactly the reward she deserves - my heart does go out to her. A little. It would more if it weren't for the syphilis tidbit that just came out.

As for you and the kids - I have no doubt that you will all be a-okay. I can feel the love emanating from the PC when you write about them, and it sounds like they have each others' backs too. That's a beautiful thing, and in spite of all the crap they're having to deal with right now? They're lucky.

My parents split up when I a teen. I was a mess over it. My siblings helped me through it, and I helped them in turn. It brought us even closer together. When time does its job and the pain fades, when they look back, these are the positives they'll take away from the experience - that they loved each other, and you. And you loved them, too.

Sanibelredfish posted 7/10/2017 14:04 PM

Ohfor, from the outside looking in Friday was rough, but could have been so much worse (STBXW chickening out or lying or otherwise derailing the proceedings). Nevertheless, I'm sorry it didn't go smoother. However, your children's subsequent actions make me think you all (minus WW) will come through this intact and stronger from the test. I know you all would have preferred to have avoided it, but WW didn't ask your opinions before sleeping with at least 3 different men so you really didn't get a choice.

Wonderful WW was so concerned about me that she took her own “scientifically reliable” approach to ensuring that she protected my health from her dalliance.

I had to read that sentence with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek. Yes, your health and well-being, not keeping her syphilitic (!!!) condition hidden from you, was her highest priority... How does she even say shit like that with a straight face?

Onward and upward!

MickeyBill2016 posted 7/10/2017 14:26 PM

O4 you have been thru hell and came out of it intact. You have your dignity and respect and love of your kids.
Unlike your WW you can look in the mirror every AM and know that you did the right thing.

When I was kid my dad always had some sort of project, for a long time it was making a rec room in the basement... we never finished it.
He was not a "let's sit down and talk about it" kind of guy. He was an engineer. But when we were working on a project we had some amazing talks about heavy issues that I still recall today 45 years later.
He may have had his head under the sink working on the plumbing, but that is when he felt comfortable and opened up. Something that was hard for us to do face to face.

I think that your car therapy is a great idea and there will be a lot of communication and feelings shared underneath the car.
I don't know if that was your goal but it'll be great for you and the kids.

whiterabbit46 posted 7/10/2017 14:31 PM

BS Only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:17 PM, November 5th (Sunday)]

Shockedmom posted 7/10/2017 15:51 PM

Just a quick note regarding therapy for the kids...my daughter after learning of her fathers betrayal of the family tried to deal with the trauma herself. After watching her struggle I finally convinced her to see a therapist (took a couple of tries to find a therapist she was able to connect with) she was able to share her pain and fear. I believe she was surprised at the emotions that came bubbling up during her appts. The therapist invited me into the room at the end of a couple of her appointments and she shared some of her hurt as well as her deep concern for me. Three years later she is asking to go back and continue her therapy. My boys strongly disagreed that they needed therapy however at this point they are asking for help.

Your children are doing a wonderful job of caring for you as well as their new family circle. It is no wonder you are bursting with love and pride, they are great kids. Best luck to all of you.

Wool94 posted 7/10/2017 18:35 PM

My heart still goes out to you and your children. How old are they?

ramius posted 7/10/2017 22:18 PM

Wouldn’t it make for an interesting neuro study? Think we should all crowd fund some sort of CAT scan research of our wayward’s brains. Think of what a contribution it would be to society if we could identify the brain characteristics of the typical wayward then, before anyone proposes or accepts a proposal you get their brain scanned. It they have the wayward wiring you just walk away and save yourself a whole lot of hurt.

Interesting........Dr James Fallon has been able to identify psychopaths from their PET scans. The scans show decreased activity in the ares of the brain linked to empathy, morality, and self-control.

Sound familiar?

So maybe one day there will be a scan. Imagine all the pain and suffering that could be avoided. The cheaters could all marry each other. And the non-cheaters could do likewise.

Meers posted 7/11/2017 01:32 AM

Sorry for high-jacking this but I believe that South Africa deserves recognition.

Although PET is the likely tool for identifying those with a propensity for cheating it is interesting to note that CAT provides the basis for today’s 3D imaging. CAT is the result of a brilliant South African, Allan Cormack who developed the underlying theory and almost 20 years later (1979) received a Nobel Prize in Medicine for that along with the UK engineer who constructed the first CAT system. I had the benefit of studying nuclear physics under Prof. Cormack in the late ‘50s and early ‘60s.

ohforanewme posted 7/11/2017 06:44 AM

Hi Meers,

Thank you for that interesting tit-bit, it was not something that I knew but am glad that I do now.

Wool, DD will be 16 at the end of August and DS turns 11 in mid Sept.

Whiterabbit, I am not sure how WW is doing. She has not yet responded in any form to the proposed separation agreement and I have decided to maintain NC until she does. I know that 2BF are still being supportive and I know that she is attending IC as i get notified of the charges running against my account each time she attends.

Wool94 posted 7/11/2017 07:30 AM

Stay strong. I hate this for all of you involved, including your WW.

TimelessLoss posted 7/11/2017 08:56 AM

She has not yet responded in any form to the proposed separation agreement
Yes, no need to push this. The children will get to stay in their home, familiar surroundings, and familiar routine you are establishing.

My hope is that WW will be using the time to get to a point of being able to function as a mum. I expect she is in no shape to do so now.

Dobby posted 7/11/2017 10:29 AM

Oh the wiring of the wayward brain. Wouldn’t it make for an interesting neuro study? Think we should all crowd fund some sort of CAT scan research of our wayward’s brains. Think of what a contribution it would be to society if we could identify the brain characteristics of the typical wayward then, before anyone proposes or accepts a proposal you get their brain scanned. It they have the wayward wiring you just walk away and save yourself a whole lot of hurt.

It's literally an addiction to dopamine, it can happened to anyone given the opportunity and right circumstances. The only real way to avoid it is to set boundaries and recognize that nobody is immune and not get arrogant in thinking you'll be the exception to the rule.

When they are in an affair you treat them as if they are drug users as they will act and react like one. The AP is the drug and like a drug its trash but the feeling they get when "high" is hard to break away from even if they know its not real. They also have withdraws and relapses but also once out of the A for a while most can look back and see how irrational they were.

Like with addicts the "tough love" tends to be the best way to break them out. The anxiety and stress of having to deal with the consequences (eg fast-tracking a D with the BS) can help counteract the the endorphin rush from being in an A. This is why having a BS file for a D ASAP when discovering an A can be so effective. Its like a splash of cold water on their face. Playing the "nice guy" fails because it ends up turning you into an enabler.

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