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We are done! Just contemplating how to tell her.

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Sharkman posted 6/23/2017 15:41 PM

OBS will feel a terrible hurt but she will be in a terrible hurt as an empowered, informed woman.

There is not a single betrayed here who would have chosen to life in a life of ignorance. (And that's not even taking into consideration the potential medical issues)

You're a damn saint. I wish half the betrayed here had your ethical backbone.

Jduff posted 6/23/2017 15:58 PM

She made a unilateral decision that impacted the M. Twice. You are surprised as a result. You are then expected to accept it. To recap -

You both started out agreeing to a childless lifestyle. 9 years later all of a sudden she wants children. You are surprised and she was not happy with your reaction. She expected you to be right in line with her decision yet she forgot she initially analyzed the idea of having kids on her own, made the decision without your input, then sprung it on you. It took you some time for the idea to sink in because you didn't get to ponder the possibilities on the same timeline as your WW, but you accepted it eventually. She didn't like your reaction and lack of immediate acceptance. You two argue over it but come to terms later.

Fast forward,after both your children are born, she again makes a unilateral decision to have a couple of affairs and thus destroy the M. Again, you were not let in on her thought process early enough to have a say in allowing a third person into the marriage. Again, that decision was made ahead of time without you. On that fateful day in June of last year you call her hotel room that and a man answers. Again you are surprised. Your Dday occurs. She buys a ton of books, does some research, talks to a few friends, quits her job. She now expects you to accept R.

So she says research showed that 70% of marriages that experience infidelity can be saved? I'm curious if she "researched" this BEFORE having those affairs and was hedging on your low tolerance for failure to have you again accept a result that is in her favor - reconciliation.

In fact, I'm curious if she has made many of these perhaps smaller and less impacting unilateral type decisions throughout the M and you have had to accept them afterwards. Just wondering if this is one of the patterns in the M that are becoming apparent now that your blind love has been slowly unmasking her flaws, who she really is and has been. Just food for thought. Breaking patterns is a good thing. Breaking bad patterns sometimes means divorce.

What is clear, ohforanewme, is that you need to heal. You need your own time and space away from your STBXW, the infidelity and its aftermath. If divorce is what you need to move forward then do what you feel is best. Divorce is just a legal termination of contract of marriage. It doesn't mean the nine planets align, a magical portal opens, and your STBXW is banished into some alternate dimensional prison forever. Your kids will ensure that you will have many opportunities of interaction with your STBXW in the near future. From your STBXW's position she could see this as many opportunities over time to show you remorse, her self improvement and change for the better, to be respectable woman and a safe person once again. You can decide later if a second chance is in the works...or not. People here have sought R after D.

Having been the OBS in my past situation, I really appreciate that you have followed through and informed OBS2 in your situation. Although she may be devastated, she will later be empowered in her situation through this knowledge. It was the right thing to do, just as having the employer of AP1 informed of his transgressions. The employer had a policy in place to protect their family values image so it was certainly in their best interest they were made aware of anyone who they employed that did not share their policy views and respect them.

ohforanewme posted 6/24/2017 06:09 AM


Thanks for the post Jduff. It has helped me to reflect and analyse in a way that has not only allowed me to get a clearer view of the past but also a clearer perspective of how wide the range of possible futures is.

I have tried to think of whether the unilateral decision making could be seen in the smaller things as well but I am clearly still more emotional and hurt than I have allowed myself to recognise, so every time that I try and recall detail about our relationship, my mind clouds over and makes the memories fuzzy.

I don't need to go to the small things though to find other examples. When she decided to go back to work I found out when I got back home one evening and she told me that she had accepted the job

The SI community are helping me in a way that 6 months of good MC and 7 months of good IC never uncovered. The collective wisdom on this forum is beyond comprehension.

The horror of the A is all on her. The torture of the past year is all on me. Infidelity is and always has been a deal breaker (almost certainly why it has been impossible to restart sexual intimacy). I know this and should have called it quits right away. My arrogant pride was what kept us in this hell hole for an entire year.

The posts by some of the wisest elders of the SI community have deeply troubled me. I have read and read and reread them. I think that they are cautioning me not to make the personal tragedy between my wife and I a voyeuristic freak show. I came close to withdrawing, but I need SI.

My mom and dad are long gone. My brother (5 years younger than me) and I are close but he lives in the UK. He is the CEO of a company listed on an international securities exchange. He travels for business 4 weeks out of 8 and I never know what time zone he is in so we don't talk but message often. Business brings him through here 3 or 4 times a year. Every time we make sure that we meet for dinner. We talk and share and reminis late into the evening. After we tell the kids he will be the first I tell. Hopefully they will still be in the country and if so he will be here in a flash.

I only have 3 truly close male friends. All the husbands of some of WW'S close friends. I have not told them. WW has told 4 of her 5 circle of her closest friends. (The other is a blabber mouth) I don't think that they have told their hubbys. WW says that the friends have told her that they have not but we all realise how much we can rely on that.

I have an inkling that they haven't been told as they have said nothing to me. On the other hand they are very like me in many ways an it is quite possible that being the stoic men we are, they have just said to themselves "must be tough what Ofor is going through. Sure that he will soldier on and make it through. " And then say a quiet prayer of thanks that it is not a path they have to follow.

So for now you are all I've got. I will be more cautious in what I post. Maybe less blow by blow, but still enough to allow for insight and advice.

Oh, and also, the craziest thing is the comment that a D doesn't mean that WW and I are done for good but could even maybe get together in the future as a new couple. Go figure.


[This message edited by ohforanewme at 6:31 AM, June 24th (Saturday)]

Sharkman posted 6/24/2017 06:35 AM

The reason this place has been helpful is that I bet that you have been more open and free than you have been wth the MCs and ICs. Keep coming and typing out your long thoughts - you will not become a freak show unless you think that the 49,999 other people on this site, nearly all who have been in your situation, are also freaks. :)

ohforanewme posted 6/24/2017 06:47 AM

Thanks Sharkman, that is exactly it (not that I think anyone on here is a freak ) but that it is the first place that I have felt safe.

nekonamida posted 6/24/2017 07:42 AM

Ohfor, under what grounds would the court give your WW supervised visits? And what harm has she done or could do to your DD? I ask because in the US you can only get supervised visits if you have caused severe harm to a child or have proven that you could through neglect and abuse so it would be a very bad parenting move to not take supervised visits if your DD has been or could be abused by your WW.

ohforanewme posted 6/24/2017 09:44 AM

Hi nekonamida

As it was explained to me, the court decision would be based on "abandonment" and "exposure to predatory risk".

There were sufficient instances where WW knowingly placed her interests, and those of AP2, above the needs of the children in times of family crisis or a real need of a child. Some examples have been shared in previous posts. There were others.

There was also a concern that her decisionmaking process could expose a child to predatory risk.

While I believe that these could be risks if WW got principal custody, I do not believe that there is any risk of them if visits are just over weekends or holidays.

I am also going to be working with Atr on Tuesday to add some clauses about dealing with other partners when either of us have the children that will further deal with this cocern.

This needs to be seen in the current legal framework in our country. After years under a repressive regime, our laws have been specifically rewritten with the balance moving strongly in the favour of the vulnerable in society. Power has shifted from employers to employees, from lenders to indebted. The shift is strongest when it comes to protecting children and as a judge, without having shared a lifetime with WW, he will base his decision on the evidence before him. As much as she has hurt me now, I know that she still loves our children and will do all she can to protect them


deephurt posted 6/24/2017 12:59 PM

Your initial post so eloquently described the pain of infidelity as I have experienced it. I have never been able to recite rube as well as you have and reading your posts has helped me understand how I can describe it. Especially the part about life going on around you while no one notices the pain you are in.

I read mostly just your posts which I often do for long jfo threads. I did go back and read a couple from bigger and sassy after you printed out a response to them.

I don't agree with them that you are looking for revenge at all.

Point about telling the previous employer. First and foremost, your wife did that and whether she did for you in hopes of r or as the right thing to do or maybe to get revenge on om2. Who know. End result is, it is a major issue for this employer, she knew it was wrong as did he and they both crossed the line. She did the right thing by leaving and he didn't whether she needed to tell or not, it was the right thing to do by this employer. They deserved to know the truth about their employee. It's one thing I regret not doing. I should have sent the proof if mow involvement during company time, using company resources to have an a with my wh. I really regret that.

You also required this to happen to get his full info to advise obs. It's always encouraged in this site to find the info out and let obs know. I disagree that there was any spite there and even if it were out of spite. You have every reason to feel entitled to it imho. All that was fine was the employer was told the truth. The truth. It is never wrong to tell the truth. Ever.
The truth will likely cause the end of his employment-that's his problem. He knew the rules. Your wife was just smart enough to get out before being fired.

She made the choice to tell. If she believed it was in hopes of r, that is on her. Has she asked you if that what you want? Either way, she didn't let you know that you were sharing her and she was exposing you to std's. Btw, I hope you got tested. If not, please do. Even if she said they used condoms, cheater are liars and she probably lied.

There are many ws's i. This site waiting till for the kids to be out of school and out of the house before leaving. They don't get called out in that. I don't see any reason for you to be while you are just being your time until you are ready.

Regarding the kids. Your wife has proven that she doesn't make good choices for herself or for her kids. She was delaying returning to them in order to have another day of screwing om. Those are poor choices. She chose sex over her kids and their well being. She has proven that she is selfish and put an orgasm before wanting to spend time with her kids. That is her consequences for her poor behavior and choices. Maybe she should have checked what the consequences would be in your country before spreading her legs for multiple men.

Her actions do not represent a good role model right now. If she fixed her shit and becomes a healthy person, then maybe she will be a good role model. Clearly your country recognizes that. This no consequence bullshit in other countries is one of the reasons there is so much infidelity imho.

I also believe you are being more than fair regarding the split if finances and assets.

My opinion is that you are doing great now. You have determined that infidelity is a deal breaker and you now want what Mel Gibson actually yelled out in Braveheart while he was bleeding and being tortured, that is "Freedom" and he deserve it. Freedom from the pain of seeing her everyday as you said you can't stand to look at her. Freedom from her piss poor morals and freedom from infidelity continuing to be a part of your everyday life.

[This message edited by deephurt at 1:00 PM, June 24th (Saturday)]

ohforanewme posted 6/26/2017 12:56 PM

There has been movement on 2 parallel fronts today.

Firstly, WW went to attend the video conference disciplinary of AP2. As advised by Trtroles, I decided not to accept WW’s invitation to attend. If the photo of AP2 had such an effect on me, imagine what hearing him and having to listen to the sordid details of what they got up to, would do to me. Not going down that road ever again.

Well WW did not have to testify. AP2 arrived with a full written confession. For a moment I wondered what had prompted him to do that. The thought that maybe WW had contacted him and told him that it was what she had done and because of it she was shown leniency, flashed across my mind and I felt rage igniting again. Quelled it quickly. Not going there. Not going to ask. As MadOldBat advised;

Detach
Detach
Detach

If that was his strategy, it failed dismally. WW left a copy of the charge sheet on the kitchen counter this evening. I stole a peek. It was MUCH longer than just breach of code of conduct. They had missed some of the compulsory briefings that the weeks were specifically arranged to cover. They did this so that they could spend more time in each other’s arms (and other body parts, I am learning from all of you just how therapeutic a bit honest vulgarity can be). They had abused company expense accounts, charging the extended hotel stays and additional meals to the company. The audacity of it.

WW told me about the final sanction that came out of the disciplinary. Not only immediate termination without reference. All the days on which sessions had been missed were going to be taken as unpaid leave with backdated deductions. They are going to audit all expense accounts over the past 5 years and claw back all fraudulent expense claims and are even thinking about pressing fraud charges. WW is so thankful for the indemnification. I think I saw just a little recognition of just how much risk she exposed us to.

The second front was my call to OBS. I wanted to make sure that, if he had not confessed to her yet, when he got home tonight, she would be empowered with the truth. I found out the opening time of the practice that she works at. The time differences between here and there makes getting a “right” time very difficult. I wanted to time my call carefully. I did not want her to be hit with the baseball bat while sitting in a reception full of patients and colleagues. I also did not want to do it to her while she was driving in traffic, so I called about 10 minutes before the practice opening time, hoping I would get her still in the parking lot. Didn’t get that right. She gets dropped at work by AP2. Luckily she was not still in the car with him.

When she answered I could hear the typical, congenial workplace banter about the weekend’s events. I almost got cold feet at that point. I introduced myself and there was clearly no recognition of the name. I immediately asked her to quickly write my number down saying that I was not sure how much she would allow me to share right now but was certain that, no matter what, she would want to make contact with me sometime in the future.

I them asked her if there was any way she could move to a place where she would have privacy.

When she said she could talk privately I asked whether her husband had seemed somehow anxious that weekend, and if so, had he told her why. She said he had, and it was because he was concerned that the company was experiencing financial difficulty and that retrenchments might be in the offing. I asked her if she would like more insight into her husband’s anxiety. I told her that we were two complete strangers but our lives had been thrust together in the most awful way. I explained that my WW and her WH had been having an A. She moved through the stages with lightning speed. How could I as an absolute stranger expect her to take my word over that of her H? I explained that I have black and white proof that I was hoping to be able to share with her. She exploded in anger. What joy was I getting out of doing this to her. I could not help myself from crying. She heard it. I explained that it was not me that was doing this to us. It was done to us. We cried together for quite some time. I then explained to her how I had discovered over a year ago. How guilty I felt for not making an effort to let her know at that time.

The bits began to fall into place for her. When her H got back from last year’s June week away he was very anxious. Scoured the jobs adds. Told her that at the conference the company had shared the annual results and they were not good so there might be retrenchments and he might need to find alternative employment. After a while he seemed to settle down.

I told her that I had all the hard evidence she would ever need in the emails I had uncovered. I asked if she could create a new private email address that the two of us could use to communicate on. She didn’t think that she would be able to do that but she would see if there was something else she could do and said she would get back to me.

A while latter she called back. She had told her supervisor that she was experiencing a family crisis and needed to get some confidential emails and could she use her company email address to receive them, load them onto a flash drive and then have them permanently deleted. I sent all that I had to the address given and waited again.

Another tearful call. Her supervisor had seen how upset she was and asked if she would like to go home. She had said that she did not want to be alone at this time so they allowed her to just do admin work in a private space away from the public glare of reception.

Can you credit it!? The unrecognisable email address that AP2 had used was his term of endearment for his DD, spelled backwards!

There have been a few more anguished calls through the rest of my afternoon and we spoke for my entire commute home. When I got home a while ago I said that I needed to spend time with the family but that she could call any time after 22:00 SA time this evening and I emphasised that I meant any time.

I mentioned that I had gotten myself screened for STDs and suggested that she should as well. She was horrified at the idea. I told her my experience of the importance of getting legal advice early, even if you have no idea of what your future plans might be. She resisted the thought. I shared my experience of depression and advised her to seek medical care and be willing to accept medication.

I told her about SI but she didn’t think that she was the type of person that could share intimate things with strangers.

Not sure what more I can do to help?

Have not had another call yet but it is still early.

I wonder how the conversation on the drive home this evening will go?

beauchateaux posted 6/26/2017 13:39 PM

You probably feel rotten for having had to deliver this news to her, but you did the right thing and you should feel proud of yourself.

It's terrible that a complete stranger seems to care more about her wellbeing than her own husband, but that's the bitch of it for all of us, isn't it? I know you feel bad for having waited awhile to find and tell her, but in a way, the benefit is that you were able to share your own experience with her of those first days/weeks post-discovery and were able to offer her advice and suggestions for getting through it and finding support. I'm glad you did that.

As to the rest - lordy, what a mess. It seriously beggars belief that anyone would wreck their entire lives like this for some cheap thrills and an ultimately meaningless ego-boost. Now their jobs are gone, they are LITERALLY paying for it and are on the verge of a lawsuit, their marriages are wrecked and all they have to console themselves with is "At least we'll always have those wonderful memories of the airport bathroom, darling". Ridiculous. And very sad.

Stevesn posted 6/26/2017 13:40 PM

Wow. That was an incredible posting.

Just so much there to process.

You have been very strong and I know how hard that was to do even though you never did anything wrong to this person. I commend you.

I feel so bad for her. and you. You both do not deserve this pain.

nothisfriend posted 6/26/2017 13:45 PM

You are amazing. Just absolutely amazing.

My heart was bleeding while reading your post. I hate to sound like your mother, but I am so proud of you! I hope OBS will be able to either join us or find some IRL help since her world has been blown up. But with knowledge comes power and I thank you heartily for giving her that power.

twisted posted 6/26/2017 14:07 PM

Yep, that's a one tough phone call, I remember trying to figure out an easy way to tell a wife that her husband has been screwing around on her, and there really isn't one.

harrybrown posted 6/26/2017 14:46 PM

Sorry for the tough phone call, but glad that you made the call.

I am sure that you would have liked to know about the first A from the other betrayed spouse, if that is really true that she knew.

Hard to know what the truth is, with so much lying and TT.

I certainly would want the information. I do think most would rather know.

hope your path to the D will be as smooth as it can be.

I do think you should protect your Daughter from any of your wife's future friends.

She does not seem to have or use good judgement.

Sharkman posted 6/26/2017 14:53 PM

I am incredibly proud of you for doing such a hard thing to benefit someone that you don't even know.

You and your wife are done. This isn't a case of using exposure to end the affair. You did this just because you're a good person who is at unrest when the world isn't right.

Congrats dude.

Dismayed2012 posted 6/26/2017 15:01 PM

Glad you called the OBS. It's only fair that she should know, no matter how painful it is. I'm also glad that you're hearing the infidelity vets. I wish I'd been as collected with organizing my exit as you seem to be.

By the way, my ex's AP too was older, gray haired, overweight, and narcissistic like her dad. Weird.

SuperDaddy1027 posted 6/26/2017 15:14 PM

Wow! This is one of the best posts I've read on SI! So much raw emotion. I felt very similiar on my dday. I think as men and women (fathers and mothers) we work so hard to have our family (our team). And for someone on that team to completely throw it all away for their own selfish reasons is a complete slap in the face!

[This message edited by SuperDaddy1027 at 8:12 PM, June 26th (Monday)]

ohforanewme posted 6/27/2017 02:26 AM

Thank you all for your warm support. Was going to say that you cannot know what it means to me but I am sure you actually do.

I had an interesting telephone conversation last night

As promised, I did not set my cell phone to silent. In the wee hours of the morning it rang. Even though it woke me from a fairly deep sleep I instantly knew who it would be and what it would be about.

A calm and confident a voice, that I now recognise, asked “I am battling a little to understand some of the aspects of my husband’s retrenchment. Please won’t you share with my husband who you are and what you know about it?”

A man came on the phone and I introduced myself. There was a moments confused hesitation as the name sank in and then he screamed at me “why are you F*ing up my life.” Yip, it is now on me.

I think that at least more than half of our conversation was him hurling random profanities, not even in any sort of structured sentence. There was quite a bit of other stuff in-between but it came out in such a raging torrent that I can’t remember most of it but here are some of the bits that have stuck with me and will give you some sense of how it went.

He called WW a whore. I said that on that point we were certainly in agreement.

He said that did I know that they did it every day that they were together. At the very least twice every day, usually 3 times and even up to 5. My response was that the A lasted about 18 months and what, they met 8 weeks a year, so that would have been 12 weeks in all. I certainly hoped that they had made the most of those 12 weeks because those 12 weeks had cost them everything else in their life.

He said did I know that he was able to give WW multiple O’s every time and at his best he extracted 8 out of her. I hoped that he was at least as proficient with his precious wife who would have deserved at least as much from him.

Most of the time I found myself laughing. Not some hysterical giggle but more of a confident chuckle.

I think this infuriated him so he tried to turn up the heat. He told me of all the places that he had taken her. Can’t recall the whole list but he had her on the mini bar, in the shower and very early one morning they snuck out and did it in a lift. I said, yes, and an airport toilet.

By now I must have been p*ss*ng him off so he let rip with what he must have thought was his "weapon of mass destruction". He said that he was such a stud that even when they did it multiple times, each subsequent time his gift to her was more voluminous than the time before and while his O was great the real pleasure was, .......... and then he went on to describe, in disgusting graphic detail, watching his gift ooze out of her.

You will appreciate that for much of the conversation my thoughts were in a jumble but I do recall a few, very lucid flashes. Not sure that I have the sequence right but I remember thinking:

He is trying to hurt me. Does he not realise that he has done that beyond his wildest imaginings a long time ago already.

Then, am I not supposed to feel rage and hurt. There was nothing.

Also, I am feeling nothing but what about poor OBS who is having to listen to this?

And then, at least she won’t have to struggle with TT.

Then, drawing inspiration from my SI brothers (and sisters) in arms I asked him. “Have you ever been on a luxury train journey with WW through the Namib desert? Have you ever held her hand as you walk through the Brandenburg gate from East to West. Did you cradle her head when the doctor placed new born DD on her breast. And then again for DS. I told him that he was a hyena who had only gotten to eat the rotting scraps of my marriage, in the dingy shadows. I sir am a lion. I feasted on all the best bits, and am stronger for it.

That resulted in a stunned silence. OBS came on the line again, and after all that, she still had a clear, calm voice and closed with “Thank you sir. I think I got everything I need to fully understand the circumstances of my husband’s retrenchment.”

When I had answered the phone I went into the bathroom in an attempt to speak without waking the household. The ring had woken WW and after the call she wanted to know what it was about. I had not told her about me contacting OBS. I told her about my conversations with OBS and then what he had said on the call. I gave her the full, graphic, technicolour version, not the sanitised version given here. She cried. Yip at last. She cried. Might be human in there somewhere. Who knows? Am I a cruel and callus bastard? Because I absolutely don't care at all if there is or not?

Didn’t think I would but I slept very well. Actually never even heard the alarm so was late into work. I don’t think WW came back to bed. She was gone when I finally woke. I think that in 2 very distant parts of the world, today is going to be an interesting day.

Oh, and 2 other things I remember from the call. He said that if only I had been better in bed, his life would not be F*cked up right now. Yip, again all on me.

Also, that his life is now F*cked up because my WW pursued him so aggressively. Ok, so maybe on her then.

Sharkman posted 6/27/2017 04:43 AM

It'll be an interesting day for everyone but you.

You are calm, resolute and not an asshole. You are simply extracting yourself from this madness as any sane self-respecting person would.

Just watch out, now your wife may have an inkling D is coming and may act differently. I'd read up on the 180.

Good luck bud, we're rooting for you !!!

Wool94 posted 6/27/2017 06:15 AM

Wow.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 6:29 AM, June 27th (Tuesday)]

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