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Emotionless Infidelity Part 4

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SI Staff posted 7/10/2018 09:05 AM

Emotionless Infidelity, for those that have personally dealing with a WS who is into Prostitutes and/or Anonymous Encounters.

rebplay posted 7/10/2018 09:55 AM

Thank you SI staff for starting this for us!

Update on me- Iím doing better thankfully! I freaked out some with my upcoming anniversary and stayed up one night checking phone records and that kinda thing just to make sure everything was still ďok.Ē Then I decided I had been lonely enough and reached out to h some. I initiated sex, gave him some attention and he responded, which made me feel better. Weíve been joking around and giving each other attention and affection the last couple days and itís been nice. I think it was good for us. Every year may just be difficult right before my anniversary but I recognize that.

Maclou posted 7/11/2018 04:09 AM

Thanks SI staff.
Glad to hear that things are good with you Rebplay.
Iím in a bit of a slump. Weíve been doing really well and Iíve been managing to look forward instead of back and then the rollercoaster hit again. Admittedly, not as hard as before but Iím back to mind movies and canít shake the feeling of betrayal.
This is a bad time of year for,me-itís coming up to the one year anniversary of the infidelity which happened while myself and my children were away for an extended period.
We live overseas and go home to visit family every year. In two weeks, I will leave my WH just as I did last year. When I came back last year, my world came crashing down. This year we are only apart for 10days but I am dreading it. I really donít think that he will do anything, our circumstances as so very different to last year, but I know that Iím going to drive myself mad worrying once I get on that plane.
I also have to basically put my game face on for 5 weeks while at home as my family and friends donít know about the infidelity. Everyone will be asking about my WH and how our family are doing and I have to smile my way through it.
Iím exhausted thinking about it.
Iím struggling a lot at the moment with the positives that have come from the infidelity. My marriage is stronger (most of the time) my husband is the husband Iíve always dreamed of, we have taken stock and made changes to improve our relationship. I HATE that him being unfaithful has been good for my marriage but honestly, if it hadnít happened, we probably would have drifted apart when the kids left home.
Sorry,this is a novel but lots going on in my head at the moment.

Superesse posted 7/11/2018 11:37 AM

Maclou, it is no wonder that you are feeling "on the rollercoaster," coming up on the same time of year and circumstances as just before your world changed!

I am sorry you feel you have to keep a game face on with your family, but I can understand, if your situation is anything like mine: his older parents and all his sisters and brother live on the other side of the world, where he was raised. We both sense they only want to hear how well things are going over here in the USA for him. Because it helps them cope with his decision to live so far away. (How I wish they could finally accept his decision, it has been 33 years since he came over here, but that doesn't seem likely.) So he feels he has to edit what he says to them.

I hope others will give you some good suggestions, here. Wish he could just go with you!

marji posted 7/11/2018 17:31 PM

Rebplay How lovely to see your so positive post. Joking, attention, affection-fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing that very nice news. I know you and your H have been functioning well together but this sounds like real progress. Progress, not perfection--but sounds like at least for now, that is very good indeed. Bravo!!!

rebplay posted 7/12/2018 07:04 AM

Marji- thank you! Your post made me smile! It feels good right now.

Maclou- the first anniversary is really tough. Having to leave at the same time just adds more intensity. Ask him to do whatever you need to feel better while away. FaceTime or talk whenever you need. Keep an eye on his bank account purchases. Random calls in the night. Whatever would make you feel more secure. He owes it to you. And I understand about acting like everything is ok for family. Thatís tough in itself.

Super- I donít think I realized your h moved out of his country to be with you.

Maclou posted 7/12/2018 07:36 AM

Thanks Supresse and Rebplay,
There are a couple of other major non related stresses coming up at the moment. I feel very out of sorts. Iím also off work for the summer which normally is a blessing but I have far too much time to contemplate.
I have total control of all of our money and the house is now in my name. As I said, I really canít imagine him doing anything, I know he regrets it so much but I know once Iím away from him, my imagination will be doing overtime. Looking forward to getting past the antiversary.
Iíve booked tickets to go to a show with WH and the kids so Iím hopi g that Iíll be distracted enough.

burn posted 7/12/2018 22:14 PM

Hello all- I don't often have need to post here anymore- generally things have been better...or at least more stable.
This week I am struggling again, and finding myself starting down the rabbit hole again. WH is gone for the week for work.
In his 8 years of EI, he never actually cheated on me while traveling for work. But he sure tried. Considering his efforts, its kind of pathetic that he never found anyone willing.
How can I ever believe he isnt doing it again when he is on his own? I can track his location, but that doesnt help to see he is in a hotel or a restaurant. One day he was supposed to be in meetings and I saw his location as a different hotel than he is staying in. Then there is the 4-5 hours out at bars or restaurants after work. Now I cant even see his location because I think his phone died. I haven't even heard from him since last night. And Tuesday night he didn't contact me at all and told me he fell asleep while his phone was charging. More than likely, nothing has happened, he is working and going out to business dinners and he falls asleep in the evenings at home all the time. But I have no way of knowing if he is back to his old behaviors. I'm so pissed that he had to make this suck so much. I'm pissed that I am sitting here now, waiting for him to get in touch. But not even a text. I should have put spyware back on his phone, but I can't access his work laptop- so whats the point? If he wants to do it, he will. I just wish I could believe that he doesn't want to.

Superesse posted 7/12/2018 22:38 PM

Wow, burn, I would be climbing the walls, too. At the very least, he ought to have figured out by now in your R, that contact while on the road is very important. I had this same experience with my WH, he'd be working 12 hour days in the heat, after traveling up to a 3 hour time zone change. The crew would all go to dinner late, have a drink or two, and then he would go to his room and crash....

Except....my WH also dialed a hooker from his room, on one of those trips....so, after that discovery, I thought back to recall ALL the times he "couldn't" contact me (yeah, it is true that cell phones can be out of their range), but what I'd wondered about, was that my WH sometimes wouldn't think to make the effort to contact me (and this was before D-Day). Invariably, he had excuses about long days, lack of access, etc.

I am thinking that it shouldn't have to be you making all the effort to locate him. I have BTDT, and I think you are not over-reacting a bit. (It's like they want the BS to go back to operating on faith, 100%!)

I wish I had a good suggestion for how to navigate this issue!

kaygem posted 7/13/2018 00:26 AM

Hey everyone,

Nice update rebplay, always sweet to hear good news.

You haven't heard from me much because I went into the pit/rabbit hole since the June 23 antiversary. It's been such a hard time. I really went down hard for a while: Pain shopping, digging up old details, putting together a more complete (and didn't need to know) timeline of his ONS's. I was pretty mean to him during that time. I went into another world, almost an alter personality. The pain came back in such astounding measure.

Another painful thing happened with one of my adult children. That certainly didn't help me handle things either.

But in the last week or so I've started to emerge again. I never knew what true depression was before this. How hard it is to rise out of such pain and depressed thinking.

I was praying one night during the rabbit hole and begging God to help me, feeling like I'd never be healed. Right after those prayers I had a miracle moment, of a sort. I felt it all lift off me and I really was able to think clearly again. The SHOCK moments that were so prevalent stopped and I was not constantly hit in the gut with feelings of horror over what he's done.

We had a time of physical intimacy that night like I don't think we've had since this all started. We were CLOSE. And it wasn't HB close, it was deeper than HB. Exciting but also peaceful. And for the FIRST TIME I didn't have a mind movie! I wasn't fighting to stay free of the movies..it was just flowing and very sweet for us both.

It started a week of closeness for us. We actually had fun without me moping and sighing all the time. I couldn't wait for him to come home at night (instead of dreading it). We held hands and I was able to feel vulnerable a bit.Hard to explain but I felt like I wasn't in a constant battle to "forget" all the time. It's like I had a reprieve from the effort of forgetting..and I just...forgot.

I'm 16 months out and it's been such a fight and a battle. Every. single. damn. day. But this week felt different, I felt it all lift off a little. It was a happy feeling and I'm thankful.

LongSigh posted 7/13/2018 03:37 AM

Burn,
Your post actually made my heart race. Iíve so been there. Iím sorry that he made it so hard.

Itís hard huh? No matter how we ended up here, how they did it, whether we decide to stay or divorce, no matter what we do, itís fracking hard. *sigh.

Anyways, I hope your husband wakes up before too long and calls you. I hope itís nothing nefarious. If it is though, do you think youíd know now? I like to think Iíd see it in a heartbeat, but I never did before so, I wonder. Would we see it?

Kaygem,
Iím sorry to see that your still dipping too. Although, Iím am really pleased to see you found some peace this week. I hope youíve either slid into a new normal, or that it at least holds for awhile. Fingers crossed.

Well, were less than a day away from what I consider our antiversary, and my birthday. I was hurt yesterday, but the tears donít last as long as they used to. At 16 months, Iím still trending closer to uncertainty than anything. Sometimes I wonder if all my passion seeped out along with the rage. I love him, but It often feel guarded, and nostalgic.

Anyways,, onwards into my gauntlet. My bday and the antiversary then the marriage anniversary next week. *rrreeaaally loooooonnnnng siigggghhhhh.

[This message edited by LongSigh at 3:53 AM, July 13th (Friday)]

rebplay posted 7/13/2018 08:45 AM

Marji- was your anniversary day ok? I know itís this month but wasnít sure if the day has come and gone yet?

Kaygem- anniversaryís are tough. I too felt like I had bipolar swings for a long time after infidelity but the huge extremes go away after more time, Iím sorry to say. I call it bipolar cause to be they are huge swings of doing ok and then off the deep end, doing ok and then boom. They really canít totally understand the inside changes we have after infidelity. Itís not fair, itís terrible, excruciating, mind blowing but time helps the most. Of course the partner has to keep doing the right things and time. Iím so sorry. Know that youíre normal and not crazy and you donít have a new mental mental illness. Itís all fallout from the infidelity. And time with their work makes a difference. Just so much damn time.

Maclou- being on vacation does add too much thinking time! Iíve been there! Stay busy and try to force yourself to do other things besides pain shop and digging. Itís a rabbit hole of terror.

Burn- personally, I think you need to tell him he HAS to call daily or more than one time daily or texts multiple times and call at least once or whatever steps you need to feel better. Doesnít matter if heís busy or tired, he first and foremost OWES this to you. Your needs come above his right now because of what he did. If you donít think he should go to bars then he shouldnít, bottom line. My h went away on business in the spring and I know itíís tough but they owe it to us to follow guidelines that make us feel safer while theyíre away. If you donít mind bars with coworkers ask him to text you a couple times while there and give you info about whatís happening or whatever makes you feel better. You deserve it.

Longsigh- hang in there. Anniversaries are so tough!

burn posted 7/13/2018 13:51 PM

Thanks for the support. He texted briefly last night and I told him I was having a hard time trusting him when he was away- his response was "I'm not doing anything I shouldn't be" He didnt respond when I texted "Its not like you would tell me if you were."

Longsigh- I dont know if I would know. My mind goes in circles on that one. He is different now and he treats me very differently. But maybe he just got smarter and better at hiding it. I try to tell myself I'm just being paranoid and there is a reasonable explanation for everything. Then I remember that I never suspected anything for years and I have every reason to be suspicious. One thing I dont worry about is the bars- he isnt a drinker- I've never seen him drunk and I've been with him since he was 19. He hates beer,wine and hard liquor so he sometimes has a hard cider. Not his thing. He gets dragged out to bars because its what his work people/ boss plan.

Superesse and Rebplay- I think you are right- I have to give him specific rules about communicating with me when he is gone. I HATE having to tell him how to act like he cares. I have a lot of trouble accepting that the burden of dealing with the Asbergers falls on me if I want things to be better. It hurts to realize that I am just not on his mind when he is gone. That made it so easy for him to engage in EI as if I didn't exist. This has been the focus of my IC for months now- knowing I need to tell him what to do, resenting having to do it, and feeling like he doesn't really care because he only acts like he cares of he is told to.

Kaygem- reading your post and hearing how you have been doing sounds so very familiar. Does it help to know its normal and part of this awful process? I didnt believe it when I read about timelines for healing on this board. (It couldnt take 2-5 years to heal. The second year couldnt be worse than the first.) But it all seems to have played out that way for me. The first year was the roller coaster of fear and anger. It felt like things were getting better as I neared the end of the first year. I got through the Dday antiversary ok and thought I was doing great. Then the mother of all depressions hit. It got so bad I agreed to try meds at WH's request and that resulted in a series of medical issues caused by the side effects of the meds. I stopped the antidepressants and have gradually recovered my health, but the depressions lingers- just not at that all time low. It comes in much slower gentler waves than the emotions the first year and there is some good in between. But Kaygem- I'm so happy to hear things are better for you now - prayer has helped me a lot too. Don't be too surprised if the depression comes back again here and there- it sounds like its a normal part of the healing process.

Thank you all- it helps so much to know I'm not crazy going through this stuff!

Superesse posted 7/13/2018 15:27 PM

burn, yes that certainly sounds like a classic Asperger's response, "I'M not doing anything....." rather than putting his head into the phone, and trying to imagine, just for a second, what YOU might be going through at home, with the betrayal history, and then not hearing from him!

Good grief, where were these guys when they were handing out the emotional intelligence.....that's a rhetorical question....but OMG after you go through the dance steps this many times, and they never seem to get it.....sigh........

I forgot that your WH may have had a formal diagnosis of ASD? If so, what - if any - therapy was recommended? All the treatments for this I have found online emphasize teaching children on the spectrum some of the "social skills" they lack. (To me, the Asperger's problem goes deeper than the eumphemism "social skills building," which I consider as meaning common manners. My WH has very good manners. He just cannot "see" my perspective in his mind, at all.)

What worries me is that in the ASD research I read, the measured effectiveness of even intense childhood ASD therapies was not considered "robust." In other words, kids' improvement was not that pronounced, after such therapies.

Well, it is good that you say your WH doesn't drink! That was also part of my WH's "road trip pattern." At home, he rarely had anything to drink, but with the guys, after a long hard day, he would have a drink (or 2, no more) to "knock himself out." Hence, he would "forget" to call home. A couple times, when he did call, I could hear the alcohol in his voice, he sounded a little drunk....

But the big thing seems to be, when working, the ASD (I think my WH is, too) gets even more tuned out than normal to the partner at home. It's like they can just put us in a box, until they want to take us out again.....🙁

Question for all (Long Sigh? 🙂: if an Aspergers (now part of ASD) high-functioning individual arrived at adulthood without childhood intervention for "social skills building," will they ever really be able to "see" another person's point of view, before they blurt out their self-referent responses to every question or comment? I have asked people on SI before, and gotten fairly mixed responses. Wish I knew the answer, for both of us! Because so much of this behavior overlaps with other abnormal personalities, and after EI betrayal....we want to know what is going on.

burn, I think you will have to get used to telling him the specific, concrete things you expect from him, sorry.

burn posted 7/13/2018 17:35 PM

Super-
Our MC is a clinical psychologist who specializes in attachment as well as in working with people with ASD. She didn't do testing on him or anything, but after working with us for 6-8 months she gave the diagnosis. (from what I read that is often how adult men are diagnosed- from extensive observation and reports from a partner) She had me do some reading on the topic, and I have no doubt its a correct diagnosis, although not everything fits perfectly (like the infidelity). He has the hyperfocus and the obsession with one or two topics, he cant correctly interpret other peoples emotions, he cannot predict how other people will respond to him, and he is painfully concrete, literal, and unemotional except that he is easily frustrated or angered.
However, he refuses to accept the diagnosis and says he doesn't like labels. Our MC no longer uses that label but has tailored her sessions with us to address his specific issues. Despite all the wisdom to the contrary on this board, I don't think IC would work with him as 1- he has to specifically be taught how to interact and respond to me and 2- if I hadn't been involved in the therapy I don't think he would ever have gotten the diagnosis. His brief attempt at IC resulted in a serious derailment of R- (she convinced him he needed to air all his complaints against me so he could be "happy"- and that didn't go so well.)
I would love to hear more from someone who knows about this topic. I suspect that therapy cant teach them to be empathetic, but our MC is working on teaching him how to act like he is - if that makes sense. Awhile ago, we addressed how he doesn't say "I love you" and how he thinks he doesn't need to because he "already said it" (classic ASD) She instructed him to start saying it every day to get used to it. So for weeks he said it one time a day to me as he left for work. Not very meaningfull to me, except that it showed he was trying. Since then he has managed to say it a few times in an appropriate context- so some improvement.
He never gets anything after one explanation. He needs it explained multiple times and be given specific instructions. And if he follow the instructions, he has to have a positive response or reward of some sort or he thinks he didn't do it right. And by positive response- I mean I have to say "You did a good job when you hugged me when you got home from work." If I just hug him back without saying anything, he interprets that as a negative response. I swear he is harder to parent than either of my two kids.

Superesse posted 7/13/2018 19:34 PM

burn, we married twin brothers? Did your WH have any learning disabilities in his early school years, that you have heard about? Mine did: language was his problem area. He was all A's in all subjects except English. His mother took him to a speech therapist when he was 6 - 8 years old.

To this day, he still twists some syllables around when reading aloud, a problem he experiened in his college public speaking course this last spring. The instructor docked him points for his pronunciation struggles, but he still survived with an "A" for the whole course. It is sort of neurological, I guess.

But if your MC is into attachment theory, what sort of attachment issue does she see with him? Our MC told us my WH fit the Avoidant model, and his negative feelings about his mother really support that. But again, without any formal assessment, what can we know about these men?

I also have read, FWIW, that the description of "loyal-to-a-fault" Aspergers men isn't supported by case studies....but I can't post a link....I read it last year online in a support forum for Asperger's spouses. Not sure, but there are quite a few EI stories here that seem to show this break between what WE think of as loyalty, and what we get from our Asperger's spouses. And that's about all I have learned, after all this time!

Thanks for explaining about this. I especially can relate to the "never getting it after one explanation..." oh yes....

burn posted 7/15/2018 01:56 AM

Now I am so pissed!!! He flat out lied to me. I knew some of the pieces didn't make sense, but I couldn't put my finger on it.
Tonight I put enough pieces together to confront him- and caught him in a stupid ass lie.
He told me he had to leave a day early because his boss was making him go to a town hall meeting at noon on Tuesday. On Tuesday he was at his hotel all morning and at noon it looked like he was at a sandwich shop. When he texted I asked him about the town hall meeting... he told me about how it was a waste of time and just PR for the new company they acquired. What he actually did was go to lunch with a coworker who has a name that is somewhat gender nonspecific. When I confronted him- he admitted he lied and says he lied bc he didn't want to upset me because he left a day early for this meeting and then his boss told him the wrong day and time. So- maybe that's all he lied about but how am I supposed to believe that. And how stupid is he? He knows I track his location. How could he not see how damaging it would be to lie to me when he knows I am terrified that he will cheat on me when he talks travels. What do I do now? What if there is more but I just can't find it?

Maclou posted 7/15/2018 04:19 AM

Oh Burn,
Iím so sorry. I have no idea what to say.
Have you any way of verifying what heís told you? I have to say, Iíd be very suspicious 😟
I had a huge row with my WH in April because he told a mindless lie- he told me that heíd ordered something when he hadnít and THAT freaked me out because I have such an issue with him lying.
If I were in your situation I would be digging hard to see if I could get more information.

Seriously, he would have known surely that the truth would be better than being caught in a lie.

Again, Iím very sorry.

marji posted 7/15/2018 04:51 AM

Rebplay thank you for asking re the anniversary; it's actually in three days and Im sure it will be ok. We were married in Central Park and before discovery we'd go each year to the very spot and take a self or two--it was always nice weather and H would take off from work. We don't do that anymore--I wouldn't like that but otherwise the day should be ok.

I hope you're still feeling good about things. You give us all inspiration.

rebplay posted 7/15/2018 07:58 AM

Marji- you sound in good standing about the anniversary, good deal. Iím sad for you the Central Park selfies couldnít continue, what a lovely tradition, BUT I totally understand. I donít think I could do that after either.

Burn- Iím so sorry. That was awful of your h to lie and go to lunch with someone else and not be where he said. Ask for a full name and look them up. He should have no problem giving you a full name, answering whether itís a male or female etc. Iíd keep digging around. He has lost his right to privacy, bottom line.

Aspergers thing- my h isnít on the spectrum. Heís actually a social butterfly. Never bothered me before infidelity but it did after. After Iíd ask him not to chat with the waitresses or waiters for so long, etc. it bothered me, but only after. SimilarIy, i had always felt the need to not let my h have to be a mind reader. I always thought we both could just tell each other what we needed. Like if I needed a gift or something specific for a special day, just say it, donít expect them to guess. I really thought it worked both ways. So it was shocking he didnít talk to me before he started down the infidelity path. I canít understand why he wouldnít tell me if he was feeling sad,neglected, or whatever so I could be the one to help. It blindsided me. So even though h wasnít on the spectrum, I really thought just being opening and specific about needs was helpful plus giving compliments (positive reinforcement) for following through. I honestly thought we both had that going on. Yes it can seem not sincere if they do something you ask but I just donít think having to read our minds is good either. BUT itís frustrating when they canít repeat the pattern. Itís like I told you already, you did it once and now you forgot or what? Kids and even teen intensive therapies make huge strides in spectrum improvement. Some young elementary kids on the spectrum look almost typical by upper elementary these days. Itís amszing. Of course a lot still have issues or you can still see their awkward but some donít even appear to be spectrum anymore. Therapies are very concrete like in this situation, you do this. Social stories are so helpful. They seem so simple but they shockingly work great. Itís just a specific situation they struggle with and exactly what to do. Then a lot of times they start doing the correct behavior. Now adults, not much experience. Anything with adults its much harder to change any behaviors. Can they work on it, sure and of course they should. I know itís abummer to be specific about your wants and needs, but I think for any lacking relationship, itís a must.

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