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Emotionless Infidelity Part 4

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Mothership posted 8/30/2018 03:33 AM

We had sex since he cheated so no point getting STI check :-(... also he said he used protection and I believe him. All online escorts (here in the UK) have a career to maintain so they wouldnít never allow a guy to not use protection.

Not that thatís the point. Heís stopped using coke, I urine test him daily (his idea) and he is going to C.A. meetings. None of my family know, itís too humiliating for me to tell them. His parents and sister know, they have been so supportive of me. He is an amazing guy, the happiest, kindest, funny, energetic, heíd do anything for anyone.....I donít want to let his slip ups while on coke define him. If he stopped the coke then this problem will go away. Heís utterly disgusted with himself. Has taken full responsibility, and never once tried to point any fingers.

In the past he only used coke once or twice a year at parties. Then a guy committed suicide in front of his van on the motorway and basically the van undercarriage shredded the guy. My H had to run to the man to see if he was still conscious. But his body was shredded. Intestines, hands, feet, skin everywhere.... a month after that he started secretly using the coke to deal with stress and pretended he was fine. The coke escalated and on the occasions he had been using all day, then got drunk, he would go to an escort.

Heís now having proper counselling.

I have told him if he sees an escort again then Iíll divorce him. He is petrified and doing everything in his power to stop. I just hope he succeeds. I donít want to follow through on my ultimatum.

IdiotMe posted 8/30/2018 10:11 AM

Idiot me, Why aren't you getting tested?
Are you saying there has been no attempt at intimacy since discovering his habit?
He is living without any sexual activity when just a little while ago he was getting it regularly? Why couldn't he go without then and can now, especially with a willing partner?
I would ask these questions.

Shocked, I haven't had sex with my husband in probably 2 years. He led me to believe he had erectile dysfunction and out of respect to him, I thought that part of our relationship was simply "over".

He's never got it regularly. He has a low sex drive for the most part.

My story is in the "Just found out" thread and is entitled..."I'm not sure what to do with this". It's probably way back on page 4-6 maybe.

IdiotMe posted 8/30/2018 10:14 AM

Ok, here is the address to my story if it'll post. If not, it's on page 5 of the Just Found Out forum.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=627031

rebplay posted 8/30/2018 20:22 PM

Marji- I havenít been on lately and Iíve gone back to work so less time. I was just reading some and catching up and saw your post. Thanks for thinking of me. :) Iím doing pretty good. Me and h are back in the romance rut. I had a good moment with him not too long ago and it seemed better. Now it seems back to ho hum. Practical life is fine just not the love part. Iím sorry your DDay anniversary hit you more this time around. We shared similar marriage anniversaries recently. Iíve wanted to ask you about you too. How are you dealing with the no touch/no sex. Does it bother you or you ok with it? Sometimes I ache for closeness and it bothers me. Sometimes Iím fine. Just wondered how you deal.

rebplay posted 8/30/2018 20:23 PM

Kaygem- wondering how you are too.

Shocked123 posted 8/31/2018 07:29 AM

Idiotme,
I read your profile and remember it well because it sounds a lot like my story.
My point in asking you about testing was that I thought you had resumed sexual activity. Now that I know you have not, it worries me that you are going without intimacy of course but even more concerning is the fact that if he was going to parlours regularly, then where is he getting that 'relief' that he was seeking there? Why was his sex drive low with you and not with them?
Bringing this up because my husband also claimed that he had low sex drive, was stressed, tired, too old etc. I had noticed difficulty with erections with me as well and never made a deal about it; didn't want to embarass him.
We had sex 10 time sin 10 years with a 3 year dry spell in that time.
Idiot me, he was at the parlours regularly all that time and it wasn't for erectile dysfunction treatment, believe me.
Once all this came out and we proceeded to hysterical bonding, there was absolutely no problem with sex between us. He enjoys sex very much and there is plenty of it. I asked that he be tested for STI's of course and all was clear because he claims to have never had sex with these women, only a happy ending (yeah, ok, whatever you say). When they tested for the STI's I asked for a testosterone check. Low and behold; very low testosterone! Well, that didn't affect his performance at the AMP, nor has it affected his desire with me now.
So my point is, dig deeper if you have the energy. You have discovered your H was cheating. He has stopped but not resumed attempts at intimacy with you. Just saying that I would keep checking his location and wondering what he's doing to satisfy his sexual urges that he clearly still has if he was going to the parlours.
I don't mean to be unkind or make you worry uncecessarily. I also don't want him pulling the wool over your eyes. What a mess they make for us....

marji posted 8/31/2018 17:45 PM

Hi Reb Nice to see your post and hope you like being back to work again. Sounds like things at home are relatively ok even if not quite what you'd like.

Yes, we share similar anniversaries; and we get through.

On the no touch/no sex thing--I wouldn't say there's no touch but there's no sex since I have lost all interest; his decade, twice weekly visits to the parlors plus three years of the periodic defensiveness/apology syndrome have rendered me cold. So I do not offer any affection; I can accept a hug, a kiss, a gentle touch and that's about it. Do I mind? not really. Each day I try to do what I want to do, what I like to do and so far it hasn't involved intimacy. If I reached out and was rejected that would bother me for sure but I have no desire for anything more right now and after three years I'm thinking that's not going to change. Too bad he violated us for so long and unfortunate that it's taken him three years to start to act really right. I remember your saying you functioned well together; I think that's how we are. But Reb, I think you have a lot more years ahead of you for things to get better. You said there was a romantic time --here's hoping for more and more.

rebplay posted 9/1/2018 09:02 AM

Marji- thank you for your openness. Iím glad youíre living day to day doing what you like and want. Thereís something good in functional. I see relationships at having functionality and the romantic/love side. I think there could be a good half rather than zero and that helps me. Our status quo was shaken this morning. I wanted to see what my husband was doing on his phone. He plays Spider-Man and has a chat line with the players. He actually got defensive and didnít want me to see it. I told him to either get out or let me see his phone. He raised and voice and started yelling. He gave me his phone and I looked through and didnít see anything and he said he just got mad cause I still donít trust him, blah blah. I told him him not giving the phone immediately just says Iím not trustworthy to me. My son woke up to the yelling :(. Heís rarely seen us like that and I hate it. :(. my hís conversation was basically I donít give him a chance or show Amy forgiveness and I was like me being here is giving him a chance and showing a little forgiveness but Iíll just never completely forgive or trust. I told him itíd be naive of me to. Blah blah. I told him he needed to read more about the trauma he caused cause I thought he understood more but apparently not. Oh and I got the id forgive you thing. Really? I told him well Iíll cheat on you and then weíll see how easy it is for you. Iím so mad right now. And on sat morning of all things. I told him if heíd just handed me the phone, I could have looked and be done. Iím rather uncomfortable about him trying to be defensive. It just doesnít settle well with me.

Sorry for being selfish and talking about myself.

marji posted 9/1/2018 12:19 PM

Hey Reb Please, talk away; unfortunately I understand everything you said but hey, those moments do pass and there is peace again. Im fortunate that our son is not around to hear any of the drama that's taken place these past three years--I even worry about our little doggie having been effected-- but it's hard to keep things quiet and calm when they still seem taken aback by the mistrust that's still there. At some point I guess they learn it will always be there to some degree if not alive at every single moment

I gave my H Omar Minwalla's article on the trauma betrayal causes. If you haven't read already I think you might find it helpful--it puts into clear and fairly easy to understand language the effects of the betrayal; it also offers a different perspective about the betrayer. I know your H is not an SA; mine is not either but I think the article goes far to explain the effects of any betrayal on the betrayed and the mindset of almost any betrayer.

If your H is willing to read more on this, it might be worth an print out.

The raised voice--that's a huge no-no for me. I hate it. Always did but now it's unacceptable. While not an SA my H does have issues with anger, irritability, that arises when he's feeling inadequate for whatever reason. He's working on that in an SA program and has a sponsor who is willing to address those "defects." I do see change.

But back to well functioning--let it not be underrated.

Hope things have calmed down and you can enjoy the Labor Day weekend.


Superesse posted 9/1/2018 12:55 PM

rebplay, marji and all of us, there is a very timely reposting over on General just now, of a podcast (MOD approved) shellofme started 6 months ago, that I somehow missed. It is by a CSAT betrayal trauma specialist who was a founding board member of the (new) Association of Partners of Sex Addicts Therapists (APSATS), Marnie Breeker. I want to watch it with my SAWH.

Maybe have yours' sit down to watch these 2 videos shellofme linked, as "reparation" for their NOT GETTING IT about lack of trust being a part of your new life....and please let me know if it helped! (I am on a limited data monthly internet plan, so seldom watch any webcasts, but these sound like a "must watch!")

And yeah, what is it with their knee-jerk FEAR? My MIL's (his childhood sexual abuser's) 80-somethingth birthday was the other day, and he decided to order flowers sent to her overseas through our local florist, as he did last year. I knew about that; the woman is still his mother. Even though I 'divorced' that whole bunch, I understand his feeling some "guilt" if he doesn't do something, not that he should feel guilt....it's just part of their whole false family system to pretend that none of that sexual abuse ever happened.)

So, his phone rang while we were driving somewhere, he answered and said "Yes....Yes....Great, thank you" and hung up. And said nothing. We drove along while I waited for him to remember he doesn't act secretive any more with phone calls, right? Right?? Yet still, no comment. At last, I lost my patience (was he still testing me? Good grief!) and asked "So, how long are you going to keep me in suspense about who that was?" Then he admits it was our local florist, calling to confirm the shipment went through....Oh. Big F'ing Deal! I realized he had just held back an innocent piece of information about where he was spending money, probably saying to himself: "I'd better not tell Superesse, because I am sure that "She Who Must Be Obeyed" will object or something, and then I will be annihilated!!" Baby Brain. Again...... (the last quote was Winston Churchill's name for his wife.... lovely, huh?)

rebplay posted 9/1/2018 15:14 PM

Marji and super- thank you both. I will check both of those things out. H will read/watch if I tell him itís a must. Lol. Youíre right Marji, the moments pass and itís already getting better. Sometimes triggers can just shock the status quo. And super, Iím sorry he kept the flowers from you. I donít like any secrets either. Gosh, itís crazy making. I need to try to chime in and comfort the new fresh out folks. Thatís even harder, when itís all fresh and new :(. So sad the ribbon is twisted and long following infidelity. It really has no end.

marji posted 9/1/2018 21:17 PM

Super thank you so much for passing on the podcasts. I just listened to part one. Interesting that Marnie Breecker came to learn about betrayal trauma after studying with Omar Minwalla but that she had never been previously exposed to the codependency model.

I found the Minwalla analyses and description of betrayal trauma very on point and had my H read as well. But OM offers in those articles no discussion for remedy so MB is surely building on his work.

Much appreciate your passing the good help on.

rebplay posted 9/2/2018 10:41 AM

Marji- Iíve read some of the OM yesturday and he does describe it well. I havenít checked out the podcasts yet. Thanks ladies!

[This message edited by rebplay at 10:44 AM, September 2nd (Sunday)]

theakronborg posted 9/3/2018 21:54 PM

Hey all!
Checking in after too long being AWOL. I'm working up to posting in the General forum. It's been 2 years since Dday this weekend. Now my younger DD is starting high school. Looking forward to actually being present for her, instead of older DD's experience of having a traumatized mom during this time.
I can really appreciate the roller coaster aspect. I thought I was healing faster than usual (i.e., beating the SI average of 2-5 years) but no, I am still struggling. At the moment I am struggling with being so angry at my exWH for doing this to our family. And resentful and angry (didn't I say that already?) that he's seeming so happy, like nothing really happened. and like he doesn't see what he did to the girls. Who knows what story he's telling himself. And I know that it shouldn't matter - I really have moved on. But i want to shake him and explain it all to him - as if that ever worked! He didn't "get it" before, he's not going to "Get it" now.
Sending you all loves and hugs.

Kathy (my real neame )

marji posted 9/3/2018 22:24 PM

OMG, thea you must have heard me thinking about you-it was only yesterday. I mentioned you to another SIer, wondering how you were doing.

Im sorry to hear you're still dealing with this crap; Ive just been reading an article about the traumatic stress experienced by prostitutes and feeling so horrible that I could still be living with someone who found it so easy to exploit these pathetic souls.

But let me change the subject and ask how your girls are doing and how what by now is the not so new job? Has your older girl started college ?

Im going to leap into a conclusion and guess that you're not always feeling this bad--that the roller coaster allows for even weeks at a time of goodness and relief.

Thea you've been an inspiration to so many of us here on SI.
And according to the iPod I just listened to today it takes 3- 5 years to really heal from the trauma--and sometimes years more. So you're doing amazingly well and Im sure it will get better and better.


theakronborg posted 9/4/2018 22:09 PM

Thanks Marji. You are right, most of the time I am feeling strong and happy - like my old self. I always thought of myself as a positive person, and she's back now. Older DD is junior in HS and looking at colleges. She is in all honors/AP classes and has so much work it's unreal. She definitely has her eyes on the prize so to speak and she is very diligent.Thanks for asking.
Job is going pretty well. It was a bit rocky in late spring as there were some changes at the company and the expectations for my role shifted a bit from business development focused to more purely billable work. I think in the long run it will all work out and I'm hopeful. I really like my job, but like any job that is measured in billable hours it's always about the bottom line. (thankfully much fewer billable hours!!) You're so kind to ask.
How are you doing? I know the SI rule of thumb is 2-5 years to recover, you're about in the middle of that, right? Is WH developing emotionally? And what about you? I know I feel as if I have learned so much and grown so much through this experience. Although sometimes I think there will never be a time when some aspect of this ugliness won't creep in. But hopefully it will be fewer and far between, and of limited scope. I still cringe when I see a billboard for a "Gentlemen's Club" - darn myself for being a compulsive reader - I can't not read those signs!!

Take care, everyone! I'll try to be better at checking in. This thread is still my favorite place I never wanted to be.

kaygem posted 9/7/2018 00:03 AM

Hey all, just wanted to check in too. I know I've been AWOl for awhile. Oddly, at the beginning of this journey I ONLY posted here in this sub group. The big forum was too scarey and triggery. Now, I am posting more in the big forum and interacting with more threads/posters as I am feeling stronger.


So we are 19 months out from Dday. I feel grateful that we are healing. Pain from infidelity is not the centerpiece of every day any longer...what an incredible relief. I still have triggers and pain though, it is far from gone. My fWH continues to work on his healing and my healing. He hasn't waivered or relapsed. We've had some really rough conversations and I still get angry from time to time but the hammer in the garage is most retired now.
.


I feel life starting to even out, the roller coaster is not so extreme now. You all told me that it would be like this and at first I didn't believe you. As long as I stay out of rabbit holes and out of pain shopping ( I do relapse in this sometimes ) I feel better.


We are having loads of company now, something I could NEVER do right after Dday. H and I are handling it as a team.


I've had a few epiphanies recently. One is that my pre-A marriage wasn't as good or as strong as I thought it was. I had rose colored glasses on. My H wasn't as great as I thought he was either. I think my heart wanted him to be great so my mind convinced me that he was...because it was what I needed. I needed to have a successful marriage to a kind, nice man...because it is what I always longed for and wanted (since my dad was a jerk and an alcoholic). I think this is why I ignored some red flags, I didn't want to believe anything different than the reality I was telling myself was true. I was rug sweeping without knowing about the EI, if that makes any sense?


I hav hopes for our marriage, but my H knows that he's pretty much on permanent probation. I'm going to order two of those new silicone wedding rings. A symbol that we are married (and that I"m willing to wear one again) but that they aren't permanent, the commitment and full trust isn't there yet. I told him no gold until I'm ready to say a vow renewal and I don't know when that will be.

I have inherited a beautiful diamond and I plan on getting it made into an "engagement" ring for myself. It's sentimental to me and I am going to design it to be what I want. He never gave me an engagement ring when we were younger. Incredibly (and idiotically) he gave me a long awaited engagement ring AFTER he started cheating! 29 years after we were married. WTH?? I took it back to the jeweler after Dday and got money for it. I wouldn't wear that again if someone paid me. And just a thought...why the F would someone do that? Buy something so longed for, so symbolic of commitment...AFTER they started cheating? Guilt? I hate that ring...

But in general, life is so much better, so much more peaceful. I think of this as a totally NEW marriage to a new man. The old is dead..gone..over. This is a new marriage and we are making new memories.

Superesse posted 9/7/2018 00:45 AM

kaygem, just....wow! Great update. Mr. kaygem must really be doing the work he needed to do. That's great news.

Tell us, what helped you to figure out how you managed to paint a "mirage" of a happy relationship, in your pre-EI marriage? I found that amazingly insightful! I, too, came from a similar FOO. Curious....

And thanks for checking in here, I missed ya! (I'm still doing the flower farming....one day at a time.)

kaygem posted 9/7/2018 23:47 PM

Hey Supresse, so glad the flower farming is still going on, where do you sell them? Farmers markets? Stores? So cool.

They way I figured out how I painted my marriage happier than it was is pretty simple. I replayed all my memories from my new paradigm. I "saw" the way things really were because the rose colored glasses were off. I processed and processed and relived so much from the past.

My H is still, and always was (sans the 4 EI years) a very likeable guy. Kind hearted and a loving dad. We had a really great friendship and passionate relationship in the beginning. I think I over focused on his good qualities and magnified them almost into a hero status. Weird because so many people rip down their spouses, I was always saying great things about him (and our M) to our friends.

BUT..... I can now see how many of the "unselfish" ways that he acted towards us were really just him fulfilling his need to be the KISA and the good guy. He was doing it more for himself than for me/his family. I see that we really drifted apart much more than I realized before the EI started. We weren't close as I had thought we were.


You know how WS's rewrite the marital history to justify their A's? Well, I'm now seeing that my marital history wasn't as rosy and great as I thought it was.

Superesse posted 9/9/2018 15:07 PM

Thanks, kaygem, you explained clearly how you managed to see a rosier picture than the reality of your early marriage.

I think it has to do partly with our feeling of gratitude, doesn't it? Like me, I was so grateful that I had at long last been "blessed" with a healthy, normal man who wanted me for his life partner, not just for a sexy girlfriend he could play around with and then discard for a richer gal (like my last several man friends did during my 30's).

I look back and consider that my feeling so grateful must have been the reason I was primed to overlook quite a few of my husband's shortcomings, his lack of passion, his restricted expressiveness (which I convinced myself was just 'cultural differences'), the missing depth of interpersonal connection, (that did hurt, but....). These shortcomings all were of less importance to me than his sweet nature and loyal devotion (that I was sure was genuine, as my whole family and all our friends kept telling me, too.) Nobody ever once expressed the idea that maybe I deserved more than my new husband was giving me; so who would have pointed out the missing parts to me? I was told how great he was....

When he travelled for weeks on end, nobody understood why I thought it was sad that he didn't seem to mind being gone...I kept hearing people say "It's his job! He has to put it first!" The people who said this were his male coworkers, or my father and my brothers, both guys who were jealous of his exciting career in sports. I wonder about the coworkers, now, if they weren't all doing similar stuff on the road...and telling their wives similar stuff.

My WH's reality was THE gut kick of my 50+ years, when I JFO! Not just the sordidness of his actions, the coldness of his heart, and the complete loss of who I thought I married, but it ALSO meant that, contrary to what I'd told myself every day for years, I hadn't managed to "do better" than those other men I'd been involved with, where I'd loved and lost. And that might have been the deepest injury of them all!

From time to time, I have weird dreams starring those old boyfriends, as though my mind is still trying to heal not only from 16 years of EI betrayal in this marriage, but from my whole lifetime of broken relationships with men.

Flowers do serve to distract me from a lot of the unsolvable stuff! I have recently started selling them to my friend who does catering. She buys buckets of flowers in the field for weddings or birthdays, for a flat fee, and hauls them away. So much easier on me than doing farmer's markets. I also started taking a bucket of zinnias up to a local farm market, to leave them there on consignment for the weekend. It is a lot of busy work, but it gets me known for something besides being "his wife" and I think that is a very important healing step to take, don't you agree?

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