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Emotionless Infidelity Part 4

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DestroyedWife80 posted 10/22/2018 00:03 AM

Trickle truth is slaying me lately. I know he hides stuff better now and even with the GPS app on his phone I don't feel safe.

I've been combing his phone with new ideas (phone calls/texts/internet history/FB messages are so obviously the first thing to delete)...

- Waze history
- Google Maps search history
- In iPhone under Settings, Battery you can view battery usage by app: there is a 24 hour list and a 'last 6 days' list...you can even see the # of hours/minutes used on each app...AND even if you delete an app, it will show up and just say 'recently deleted app'
-There is a deleted folder of voice mails

I found:
- Search in Google maps for a gay bar & massage place (last week)
- Waze entry for an Asian massage parlor (after I had found everything but before confronting him)
- Some addresses that may match up to some ATM withdraws, I have to see (Also after I had found everything but before confronting him)

I swear I am in hell. Can't wait for counseling on Wednesday for help. It's like the revelations never cease. And I know there is more that I'm missing!!! These are just the things he was careless with! I feel like I am going nuts!!!

[This message edited by DestroyedWife80 at 12:07 AM, October 22nd (Monday)]

Shocked123 posted 10/22/2018 08:08 AM

Have you looked at his location history?
Go under settings, privacy, location services,system services, frequent (or significant) locations.
Many people don't even realize this is on all phones.
Chances are he's not deleting it or has disabled it.
It's how I tracked my H's activities after discovering massage searches on his computer. I then watched and tracked his activities for 10 weeks before confronting him.
I saw two therapists during that time who helped me gather my thoughts so that I was calm enough to confront without falling apart and giving him an edge on me.
Good luck at your next therapy session.
Bring printout of screen shots. Otherwise he will minimize etc. There's something about seeing proof on paper that humbles them.

DestroyedWife80 posted 10/22/2018 16:47 PM

I didn't try that yet- but i tried it on mine and it wouldn't work. That would definitely help me!

Shocked123 posted 10/23/2018 05:41 AM

Youíre vould be disabled
Doesnít mean his is though.
If you have access to his, check it out
enable it as needed

The other way to do it is to make sure youíre is enable, then forget your phone in his car, it slipped under the seat. Turn off all your notifications are ithere for that day then read the location history
You can even do this without pretending you lost your phone, just hide it in his car.
Another way to track him is to put find my friends on your phone with someone you trust
Leave your phone hidden in his car then track his location that way. You can monitor live that way.
Kind of a gps tracker
If he finds it just say
You were looking all over for it but didnít want to worry him about losing your phone.

Tim3167 posted 10/23/2018 11:20 AM

Ok so my wife is getting some better resources for therapy and they seem to now be closing in on some type of bipolar disorder. Is there an I can relate thread for Bipolar as it relates to infidelity? In the material we have been reading hyper sexuality and risk taking are huge factors so I would think there are others dealing with this.

Shocked123 posted 10/23/2018 13:06 PM

Tim, there is a forum for personality disorders. You will find people discussing all kinds of mental illnesses.
Ask the therapist about Borderline Personality Disorder. It is sometimes confused with Bi-polar. I point it out because Hypersexuality is one of the most common traits in this disorder. I am related to one such person and she was never able to be fatithful.
Good luck.

marji posted 10/23/2018 15:54 PM

There is often mental illness associate with SA. I believe a psychiatric evaluation should be a part of the diagnosis, NOT to excuse the behavior but to facilitate recovery. Bipolar disorder and its similar counterpart bipolar 2 often have a hypersexuality component that drive an addiction. This link is a broad overview. It has links for further investigation.
http://bipolar.about.com/cs/hypersex/a/aa_hypersex.htm

Tim This is from the information and resource page one on the Partner and Spouses of SA here in the ICR group.

I understand that it's not perfectly clear that your wife is an SA but you may still find some of the material here enlightening.

Tim3167 posted 10/23/2018 17:56 PM

Thanks for those links. Itís all a bit confusing. This all came to a head last Friday night when my wife admitted another man from her past cheating periods. She would hook up with whenever he asked back in 2007 then again in 2016-2017. It turns out both periods of her cheating started with this guy I didnít know about then spread to others which I had found out about.

After she told me she became hysterical and wanted to hurt herself so I took her to a behavioral hospital. They decided to admit her for 3 days got observation.

At her follow up appointment today they keyed in on bipolar pretty quickly and she starts some group therapy sessions tomorrow.

My confusion from some of the online info I read is the description of the need for sex. She has strongly and repeatedly described it a bit differently. She wanted that feeling of being wanted and used sex to get that feeling. Is this distinction important or not really.

marji posted 10/23/2018 19:36 PM

Tim There's no one absolute profile for SA. What's important is that your wife find the help she needs; what's important is that she works hard to change into a trustworthy person.

rebplay posted 10/29/2018 19:36 PM

Tim- has to be tough finding mental illness attached to behaviors. Thatís great sheís open to getting help and seeking support. Sheís lucky to have you. Donít forget about yourself in all this. She needs help but you deserve support too and her help toward your healing.

rebplay posted 10/29/2018 19:39 PM

Destroyedwife- gosh itís truly terrible thereís recent betrayal evidence. Iím glad you have a therapy appt coming up. I donít think I could take another one.

LongSigh posted 11/2/2018 04:47 AM

Hi ladies,
Checking in and seeing how everything's going. I actually read the last 6 months of updates from everyone this time....

Kaygem, how are you? Thinking of you and hoping all is well. Super, Reb, Marji, Burn, Thea, same to all of you. To the Newbies, I'm so bummed to see you here but welcome nonetheless.

Well, I have some huge updates...

Husband is still powering through.
he bought me a new ring last year. A big, perfect, expensive, sparkly, flawless one. Then he went and had the inside of it engraved. It translates to "fidelity in love". ** sigh Then, he bought me a house. My house. The one I've missed since our lease ended and we moved out years ago. He said he was putting his money where his mouth is. He's been great in every way for a long time now. Almost two years of consistent behavior change, dedication, understanding, and compassion. yet, I still think about leaving every few days though so now he's moved to more concrete actions to prove his commitment. I love the house and my ring but I still just wish he hadn't put his money or his mouth where it shouldn't have been.

Still, he's been pretty solid. I look for lies. I look so hard sometimes I wonder if I WANT to catch him in another. I just can't believe that's it. More than a year of getting sucker punched with one truth after the other. No way in hell can I believe he doesn't have any more secrets. I feel like he does. My bones vibrate with it. I just can't tell anymore if that feeling is based in truth or is it conditioning? I still believe there are things about the past that he's lying about and hiding from me. My intuition says one thing, he says another. He did pass the poly but for whatever reason, that doesn't even convince me anymore. I am a living breathing example of the irreparable damage that trickle truth does to the chances of reconciliation. It's so exhausting. I love him but I'm so disenchanted and disillusioned that the love almost doesn't matter anymore. We're functional, I'm just a million miles away.

Sex... HA. Almost two years out and I still get mind movies every single time. I still try to piece together exactly what he did, how, for how long, etc... It's automatic. He touches me and images and questions pop up. God how I miss happy, loving, connected sex that isn't tainted by betrayal.

Destroyed, I just wanted to reach out and offer you an ear, or a shoulder. I too married a man who cheated very, very early in our marriage. I lived through the trickle truth for a very long time and it completely changed my perspective on love, relationships, and human connection. I too have spent countless hours searching, scouring, monitoring. It will consume your life. Literally consume you're life.

[This message edited by LongSigh at 4:51 AM, November 2nd (Friday)]

Superesse posted 11/2/2018 09:29 AM

Long Sigh,

Long time no hear from...but a very thought-provoking update. You didn't mention how your educational endeavors are going, but if I recall correctly you were getting close to achieving some important milestone in that department?

I have several visceral reactions to your situation, let's see which pours forth, first!

Ok: the complete 180 your WH has been demonstrating in so many ways seems at first glance to be "very unusual" and "almost too good to be true," considering most stories here, and in my own experience with my WH. BUT! I feel it isn't out of the realm of possibility that he really GOT RELIGION, as it were, and that what you are seeing represents a real, gigantic change in him. It is at least theoretically possible, no? Isn't that what we ALL hung in for, that thin chance of restorative change?

Ok, but then: is your fear you haven't heard it all even justified? Maybe. Maybe not. Could truly be trauma conditioning and a prototective stance, OR it could be evidence-based, in a weird way: the absence of his former symptoms (lying) haven't been able to offer you sufficient proof that he has achieved a new state of emotional health? The old saying being: "it is hard to prove a negative." Whereas in the past, you had evidence for positive sick behavior from him.

This is such a critical aspect of our new life after this kind of betrayal. The fear of what else there may be lurking in this person (and the revulsion we feel for what they did) are the main reasons I never could even try to be sexual with my WH, after D-Day, as you seem to have been able to do.

So that raises another thought: are you offering him any solution to his physical needs for affection that you don't really want to be sharing, now? And what would you expect from him, or expect him to do, if you withdrew that? Could the sexual aspect you share now, be in any way related to your residual fear and distrust, in other words....

LongSigh posted 11/2/2018 20:11 PM

Super,

Hi hon! First, my educational goal is still firmly in check. I graduate in May. Im also still batting a perfect game. Thatís important to me because my next step is a very competitive program for my terminal degree. I still canít believe I managed to hold it through all this shit these last few years. Thank you for asking :).

Iím not sure how unusual his 180 is. Remember, he did drag me through lie after lie for a year after popping the lid. Lied about almost every aspect. Then he blew up on me and I filed for divorce although I did eventually change my mind. I wonder if he just hit rock bottom. He likens himself to an alcoholic and says thatís the approach heís taking. An alcoholic is always an alcoholic and itís either complete avoidance or theyíre lost. So I dunno. Could be lasting and real, or it could be temporary. I just donít know.

As for the physical aspect of our marriage, I havenít cut him off. I havenít even went cold on him. Itís just something weíre still dealing with. I still want him, Iím just resentful that itís never just us anymore. Not in my head, you know? Sometimes we have to hit pause and talk it out and the mood will return to me, others, we just end up trying again another day.

My Hangul is still the lies. He cheated, a lot. No getting around that. Iíve accepted it happened. I just refuse to accept continued deception of any sort but canít figure out if my tuning fork is broken or not.

*sigh....

How are you super? Howís life with your husband lately? Any changes? Feeling any different?

Superesse posted 11/2/2018 22:26 PM

Long Sigh, I am not surprised that you are still on track to your educational goal - you have shown that intensity of motivation, all along. Good job, though! I know the focus on that goal has probably helped your mind, the same way it did mine - to get us to a better place.

Wish I was in a better place now, 8 years after my undergrad degree-granting. But hey, I have my 4.0 GPA in Psychology to show, for all the pain. (No changes really, since 12 months ago.)

Anyway, sounds like today you are in an admirable place, both emotionally and physically, for the most part? Maybe some residual psychological impact (doubt?) is the last remaining barrier, keeping you from letting yourself feel his "Ugly" is truly in your rear-view mirrors?

You know that we may never be able to truly know another person the way we had once hoped to...that realization has helped me to accept the way our closest relationships can often turn out. As a wise counselor told me, many years ago, "You want a guarantee." I replied "Don't we all...."

But...from what you mentioned again, (i.e., worrying about a 'broken tuning fork') I'm just theorizing whether your continued sexual relationship and the desire you say you have for him, may have held you a "little too close" to allow your mind to truly believe you're still in "control" of your own sexual choices, KWIM?

If you were to need any kind of extended "time out" from that, do you ever wonder what that might feel like, for you? And do you have any curiosity about how he might react?

Naturally, your answers = none of our business, but was just putting some thoughts out there for you. Not even sure why I said that....maybe it is just projection....never mind......😌

LongSigh posted 11/3/2018 01:14 AM

Super,
No worries:)

There was a point where I just couldnít have sex with him. He was tainted meat (such an appropriate phrase here, lol) in my mind. It actually wasnít a big deal. Heíd just pet my back or something, or weíd hang out and watch movies or whatnot, and he just kept apologizing. I did get worried if we werenít going at it heíd find it elsewhere but I got over that fairly quickly. If thatís the name of the game then it is what it is and Iíd know my path lies elsewhere. Maybe thatís why I look so hard for more proof of deception. My life is barreling forward and I donít want to drag a carcass of a marriage along with me. I want proof, a guarantee, one way or the other. We havenít had an extended hiatus though. It only lasted maybe a month or so. I think in that circumstance I would probably become completely detached. As for him, I think it would hurt his feelings.

Have I mentioned he now has a fear that Iíll cheat on him? Not in a revenge or mad hatter kind of way. Heís scared Iím going to meet someone else, fall in love, and leave him. Heís developed a few insecurities about himself that he never had before. Granted, I hopefully start clinicals with FEMA soon and if it gets approved Iíll be housed with a bunch of first responders, a majority of whom are male. So I get it but.... youíd think he would know me enough to know better huh? Iím not him.

I am definitely in control of my sexual choices. If im not feeling it, im not doing it, period. Iím just not in control of his, and therein lies the main fuckery for us all.

So yeah, Iím doing fairly well. Just locked in the never ending worry that more from the past is hidden. At the moment, I actually believe heíd turn tail and run for his life if another woman gave him so much as a sideways smile. How long I think thatíll last though, no idea. A month. A year. Forever....or maybe a week. Who knows? As you say, and Iíve learned, we can never really know, we donít get a guarantee. Unfortunately, I just think Iím the type that needs at least the illusion of a guarantee, you know?


rebplay posted 11/4/2018 13:55 PM

Longsigh- I get the sex part. I had mind movies and repulsion for a long time. I wanted the sex and connection but then I hated it too because it wasnít just us anymore (like you said). About the 3 year mark I stopped feeling as repulsed in sex. Itís not the pure, give myself, actually really good sex we had ďbefore,Ē but itís better than the first three years after DDay. I also still have doubts. Always looking to make sure I donít miss any bad signs. I think my trust will always be torn. Iím glad for the functionality I have. Sounds like you are too. Sometimes thatís better than having nothing. I hope the good transformation continues.

Super- good to hear from you.

Superesse posted 11/4/2018 14:43 PM

Hi reb! Good to hear from you, too. Both you and Long Sigh seem to have worked out a solution to living fully in your marriages after EI betrayal; a solution that I wasn't able to work out, I guess because I never saw the needed psychological changes across the board from my WH (after D-Day 1 in 2002) that you both see in your WHs, plus, by then I had already gone through "the change of life" and didn't have any latent desire left for sex with a morbidly obese husband anyway, let alone after such revolting behaviors on his part!

But what I was going to offer is a comparison of sorts: when you go over to read on the New Beginnings forum, so often you can read about people who have worked out some kind of FWB thing in their New Beginning as a single person, without having to get too close and entangled. I am guessing that even what you have left in your marriages, is probably better than that would be...or is that crazy? There must be some advantages to staying, versus starting all over from scratch and playing around in the singles market? (I don't think I could do a FWB, but I see many there in NB who have thought it worked....Personally, if I ever found a man I trusted enough to have sex with, I would have a darned hard time not getting emotionally invested!).

So keep on keeping on, I would say....

rebplay posted 11/4/2018 17:03 PM

Super- the ďarrangementĒ has its perks or I wouldnít stay. Itís not financial as I could afford to live solo but other things. My wh is committed to being a good dad and is doing well in that department. My son is happy. My wh helps with daily things. I can call him if I get a flat, he can fix anything. He does kind things like grabs my fav chocolate at a check out and that kinda stuff. Iíve been watchful and at least from what I know heís been faithful since DDay. Cons- my love isnít what it was and never will be. Iíll never trust another man not even a new relationship. I donít feel like I get my love needs met. I can have something or nothing. Iím not thrilled about dating and would probably stay single for a long time. I can make it on my own, I know that. But I guess itís a choice I make to stay. I
Always feel like I have an option though.

LongSigh posted 11/4/2018 20:19 PM

What Reb says. I co-sign every word. I know Iíll never trust another man again. Even if I did, my perspective on love and relationships had been distorted. Itís kinda like why bother. I was a romantic who believed in real love and happy ever after, now Iím not. My husband actually tears up over that one and I still donít get why. He obviously didnít give two shits about fairytales so why does he care that I donít now either? Go figure.

Now we just fit comfortably. Obviously, Iím still in limbo, straddling the fence. Iíve tried to make him aware this is a permanent state for me. That I feel like one day Iíll just wake up and leave. I donít want the guilt of stringing him along when that happens. But he says heís just gonna work on it for however long he has left with me. So, I guess weíve found a semblance of peaceful functionality.

Super, Iím sorry you canít be intimate in your marriage but so totally get it. If my husband were obese and unattractive on top of all this shit heíd probably be sleeping in the garage. Are you ok with it? Does it work for you? Or do you miss more?

Reb, thanks so much for the insight. I was wondering if it would get at least a little better or if this is as far as I can go when it comes to the sex issues. Itís starting to wear on me. I so miss the close, connected feeling and I just canít get there. Or if I do, I either canít hold it or allow myself to connect and then Iím swamped with pain all over again. I wish he hadnít lied. The TT is what killed us I think. I was wanting his honesty as proof of those psychological changes that Super mentioned and instead I got the exact opposite. I really wish he hadnít lied so much. For me the cheating was one thing, the deception went so much deeper.


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