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Emotionless Infidelity Part 4

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SusanneH posted 11/13/2019 12:51 PM

as I want to get it taken care of.

Marji, thank you for all of your insight. I really do realize the trauma of all of this and realize it will take many years of work.

What I meant was that I wanted to get the first session started. Not that I thought it would 'take care' of the situation . That would be great, but a pipe dream at best. I've done a LOT of reading, both books and on this forum, and am learning a lot. I'm reading a book that goes into the trauma of infidelity with statistics on it as well... It talks about PTSD from this and goes into detail. I'm only near the beginning, but I think I'll get a lot out of it, too. It's "Treating Trauma from Sexual Betrayal" by Dr Kevin Skinner. So, I'm not naive about it like I was in the beginning. I sure liked life better when I was!

I appreciate all of your years of experience, and will take them to heart. I'm learning as I go just how much larger of a 'thing' this is than I thought on day 1. I thought the 2-5 years recovery time was for everyone else, not me....now, I know it's going to be for me, too....at least. And, I'm accepting that. I'll be getting an IC for me that's different than the one he's going to. I'm just going to this so she can get my story, I guess. But, I'm going to let her know that we want to each get IC and THEN get MC. At least that's what I've read is best, and seems like it'll work better that way.

thanks again! & best to you. I like that you have a support group. You must live in a larger city than we do .

[This message edited by SusanneH at 12:56 PM, November 13th (Wednesday)]

SusanneH posted 11/14/2019 09:57 AM

Yea!

Saw H's IC yesterday with him. I really like her. Just like with me, I found he hadn't listened to her. She had told him on the first visit that he is NOT a sex addict, and he didn't remember it ! He actually had GOOD news, and didn't know it. Anyway, it was a good visit. She wanted me to come back, but I told her that we had discussed each of us going to IC first (different ones) and then MC, probably both with her. I told her than I'm ill, and coming there (40 miles) every week is a hardship on me, and I'll be doing my IC online, then, I'll make the effort to get there for the MC as it is SO important.

One thing she did do that I know isn't going to be for me/us, is suggest the book, "The New Monogamy". I told her I have only ONE kind of monogamy that will work for me, and I can not change. She said some like porn to replace cheating..... . For my H, he KNOWS that porn is like eye candy. He watches men with men, and it makes him want it more. He's admitted it, and says he knows he CAN'T watch it without wanting to go back out. Sure, we'll write up the contract, but it will NOT include having an open marriage, like the reviews I saw the book talks about it through the last half. The reviews are mixed as to the way it treats/talks about BS's. Some say it helps the victims, and others say it blames the victims. I ordered it just to not be closed-minded....., and will read it and make the contract. .

She asked great questions, and one of them was to him. Bottom line is that he would rather have a life with me, family and friends rather than to just be able to have the narrow pleasure of having sex with a man and NO marriage, NO family, NO friends that he has now....etc. He said it's a no-brainer. And,I could see in his eyes that he meant it.

I told her I only had one question that hasn't been answered to my satisfaction, and that is that is the men we went to see and did NOT have sex with as they didn't meet his 'standards'. The polygraph examiner (only one in town) doesn't like to 'get involved' with marriages, and won't do this unless it's through our counselor. I told her, and am not sure she'll do it. She did ask if it were not answered, what would I do? I told her that I would just have to accept it. He has told me everything else and it all fits. He also kept on looking, and started looking at the porn shop, so the fact he did NOT find anyone online actually 'fits'. I told her I could live with it. She also asked if there would be anything at this point that would be a deal breaker. Neither of us could think of anything. So, looking good there.

We have had a few 'bad' weeks...just not getting along. We just started getting better the day before . At least we went there not at odds with each other, but told her it had been hard. As usual, I did most of the talking, and am glad he'll be able to go on his own. He doesn't do a good job of expressing himself, and without me there, he'll have more of a chance .

[This message edited by SusanneH at 9:59 AM, November 14th (Thursday)]

outofsorts posted 11/15/2019 11:09 AM

That's great that you like the therapist! And that it seems like she asks good questions.

One thing she did do that I know isn't going to be for me/us, is suggest the book, "The New Monogamy". I told her I have only ONE kind of monogamy that will work for me, and I can not change. She said some like porn to replace cheating..... .

I'm not sure what to make of this though.... I am with you - definitely would not be amenable to opening up the marriage in any sense.

SusanneH posted 11/16/2019 11:25 AM

outofsorts,

I'm not sure what to make of this though.... I am with you - definitely would not be amenable to opening up the marriage in any sense

Just got the book last nite. I paged through the last part (that's where the reviews said it was too "open minded", etc). So far, I only saw one mention of "some couples find open marriages...". But, when I read it all, I'm sure there's more after all I've heard about it. The only reason I got it, as I know I'm not going to change my mind, is that it has some good things in it to use WITH monogamy , as well as she asked us to draw up a contract of our 'new' monogamy, which this has in the book. The reason for this is to not have any gray areas. For instance (and, he just used this as justification. He knew it was wrong), H said since this was with a man and not in competition with me that it wasn't cheating... . Before we got married, I sat him down and told him EXACTLY what I expected. (I didn't mention MEN, but didn't think I had to). I did, however, say that ANY KIND of sex (oral, hand, full, ANY) with ANYONE is cheating to me. SO, that includes men. But, the agreement, signed by both of us should include/exclude everything/anything. Onto another book. Still in the middle of another two (one, I'm reading, and the other a workbook for both), and haven't started this and another...whew. I haven't done this much reading since I got ill as it makes my head hurt worse (and it's already way up there), and makes the nausea worse....But, this is worth it!
(((((HUGS))))) & peace

Whatahellofamess posted 12/1/2019 15:46 PM

I hope I'm doing the right thing here - I'm new to the site and posted the piece below on "Newly Discovered", and a very kind poster suggested it might be better on here ...

We've been married 40 years and all seemed fine until 2011 when I found he was sexting a woman abroad, had also used a prostitute and had given me an STI. He'd recently lost his job and been ill so put it down as a passing madness which I perhaps foolishly believed

In 2015 I came down with another STI and discovered he'd carried on using prostitutes. Hellish upset followed, with him insisting it was for "stupid excitement", "couldn't believe what he'd done" and "would do anything to make things right". Somehow we carried on, though things were never the same again

Cue last week, when a bank problem revealed that he's now being blackmailed by a prostitute - so far over £30k is involved and so are the police. Worst of all, though, I've learned he started using them as a teenager, carried on after marrying me at 25 and has just never stopped. He's absolutely emphatic that this is nothing to do with me and that there's nothing I've done, not done or could do which would have made any difference; basically he thinks it's an "addiction" he can't resist and blames childhood difficulties and the fact that he finds it hard to relate to people

At 63 I'm quite simply reeling; I have no family at all to share this with and no outside support of any kind - if I had, I almost certainly wouldn't still be here now

Please does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what the hell I do next??

outofsorts posted 12/1/2019 20:04 PM

Whatahellofamess - oh I am so sorry you are in this situation! But glad that you have found SI - there are people here who can help and can relate.

I just read your post on the Just Found Out forum and you have gotten some good advice there. You are welcome to post on this thread whenever you want the support of those of us whose spouses also cheated with prostitutes or in similar situations. But you can also post on any of the message boards when you want advice or comments from a larger group of people.

My advice will probably echo what you heard in response to your earlier post... Right now you are in shock. You need to do what you can to take care of yourself. I would recommend getting yourself into counseling as soon as possible so you have someone to help you sort through this mess. You may need or want to talk with a lawyer to get advice on your financial situation. You will probably need to go back and get another STI test. In the meantime be as gentle with yourself as possible: post here (and read the message boards and in The Healing Library), take long baths, exercise to help relieve the stress - whatever you can do to help make this a teeny tiny bit easier.

He's absolutely emphatic that this is nothing to do with me and that there's nothing I've done, not done or could do which would have made any difference;

This is a really, really hard lesson to understand - or at least it was for me. I blamed myself so much for this at first and it took me months to realize that WH was 100% responsible for the infidelity. Just like your WH was 100% responsible for his cheating. Anytime you feel any doubt about this just remind yourself that you had absolutely nothing to do with this.

This does get easier with time - eventually. {{{{Whatahellofamess}}}}

Whatahellofamess posted 12/2/2019 05:19 AM

Very many than ks, outofsorts As I just mentioned on the other board, I've got a counsellor's "initial assessment" booked for January but am trying to sort something sooner via the police "crime care" people - except they've not been in touch yet and he's showing no initiative at all around chasing them. Clearly he's slipping back into rug-sweeping mode and that can't be allowed to happen

The "nothing I could have done" is indeed a hard pill to swallow; on one level it almost makes me feel better, but it still leaves the "how could he have done it even in the earliest days of our marriage?" thing. We honestly seemed so happy back then, but the same goes for so many other times and now I'm having to revisit it all ... 40 years' worth of "did he really mean that at the time?"

Whatahellofamess posted 12/2/2019 05:24 AM

Sorry, I should have added that of course I understand cheating is always the cheater's choice; there are so many other ways of addressing things and the route he took is on him

But there's still that "wasn't I good enough?" little voice that won't be silenced, which makes the 40 years of hooker use even worse. I keep revisiting what seemed the happiest times - the birth of our son, family occasions, special holidays and so on - and it's all utterly tainted beyond my understanding

outofsorts posted 12/2/2019 20:30 PM

Sorry, I should have added that of course I understand cheating is always the cheater's choice; there are so many other ways of addressing things and the route he took is on him

But there's still that "wasn't I good enough?" little voice that won't be silenced, which makes the 40 years of hooker use even worse. I keep revisiting what seemed the happiest times - the birth of our son, family occasions, special holidays and so on - and it's all utterly tainted beyond my understanding

All of the whys are something that I still have trouble understanding. I just can't get WH's cheating on me to make sense in my brain. It is much better now than it was but it is still hard to deal with.

I really hope that you are able to get your counseling assessment moved up.

But please do know that one way or the other it will get better than it is now!

Nelle77 posted 12/19/2019 19:14 PM

New member here...

I didnít even know Emotionless Infidelity was a thing, but it describes my husband. Heís been unfaithful throughout our marriage, something I sort of expected and definitely ignored. Nothing long term. Mostly porn and masturbation, with visits to massage parlors and meeting women online.

Thanks for sharing your stories.

outofsorts posted 12/20/2019 13:00 PM

Hi Nelle,

So sorry that you are going through this (and it sounds like you have been for a while). I'm glad you've found SI.... There are some very helpful people here to commiserate with and get advice from.

Please post whenever you need to.

SusanneH posted 12/21/2019 12:24 PM

Hi Nelle,

I, too, am sorry to see you here, but sure understand. Until March, 2018, I never thought my H could do ANYTHING like this, but emotionless totally describes his infidelity! The only difference is that mine saw men in porn video stores...in sticky little back rooms..ugh and (also the porn and masturbation) as well as meeting them on dating sites, too. It's been devastating, to say the least. BTW, I have learned now that there really isn't much difference in the fact that it's men....it's CHEATING, and that's the same betrayal no matter which!

My story is on pg 25, I think, but it's only the 1st part. Most of us BS's only get part of the story in the beginning. I knew about all of the internet men, but at first he only admitted to having sex with ONE for 2+ years recently. talk about emotionless: he saw him at the porn store 2+ years and didn't even know his last name. My story tells it all (rather long). When I couldn't accept that he went to see SO many men and didn't have sex with ANY of them, I was going to have him take a polygraph. When he saw I was serious (after 7 months of false R), he admitted that he has been having sex with men since we started dating. MANY of them.

I can't believe I'm still here, but my posts explain a lot of it. I'm still deciding whether I'll stay or go. I can't trust him. He lied from the day I found out about a CL date 3/7/18 until 11/24/19 over & over. lies on top of lies. the folks here on SI kept telling me he was lying, I kept defending him, even though I knew I couldn't live with what he said. I thought we were "special", like someone here told me it would seem like. But, no.....

Wish I could give you some words of wisdom. The best thing I can say is that it WILL get better. The only thing that makes it worse is "trickle truth (TT), them giving you/or you finding more information as time goes by. Each time you find something new, it's bad again. So, hopefully you can get it all up front....good luck...and, then the healing can begin.

Remember. The most important thing: IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!! It was HIS decision(s). And, it's totally up to you to decide what you want to do. I always said if my H ever cheated on me, that was IT. No 2nd chances, and here I am. Right away isn't a good time to make decisions as our heads are all over the place. There's no hurry unless you can't stand being in the same place as he is. Get all you can to read about it. For him (if he's willing), the best book is How to Help Your spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda J Macdonald. There's another one by the same name which is NOT as good at all. And, one for both of you that we have found good is Healing from Infidelity byMichele Weiner-Davis. There are many out there. I get them from Amazon mostly and have had to return a few after reading the intro. It's all up to you.

best of luck and (((((HUGS)))))

[This message edited by SusanneH at 12:27 PM, December 21st (Saturday)]

outofsorts posted 12/21/2019 14:59 PM

Susanne,

How are you doing in light of your husband's recent confessions?

Were you ever able to find a counselor? If so, how is that going?

Hugs to everyone....

SusanneH posted 12/23/2019 11:07 AM

outofsorts,

Thanks for asking.

How are you doing in light of your husband's recent confessions?

It has been pretty rough, but getting better. I still have a hard time believing we're still together. Until today, I had not made up my mind whether I was going to give him another chance or not. I still can NOT trust him, so hasn't been an easy decision. He's really been trying, even though I haven't been very receptive, and giving him a bad time....YES, he deserves it! BUT, if we're going to stay together, at some point, I have to soften up. Been doing a lot of reading and thinking. I woke up at 4am this morning, and spent the time deciding. So, a little while ago, I told him I was going to try ONE more time, and that I am counting on him to not let me down.

I feel like I've stepped out on the smallest twig on the treetop to do this, but I know what I'm getting in to......

Were you ever able to find a counselor? If so, how is that going?

Yes, online. I've only had one session as I had to cancel one due to my illness (I had a migraine that day), and the holidays. She had to cancel my next one, which takes me all the way out to Jan 7th to wait. Better than having to drive 40+ miles being so sick. Unfortunately, my internet is too slow to do video chats, and I really want face-to-face to show emotion. Maybe I'll do a phone session soon. I'm just afraid we'll talk over each other .

Hope you're doing all right.

((((HUGS)))))

outofsorts posted 12/24/2019 09:48 AM

That is a really, really tough situation Susanne. I am sure at this point that you do know what you are getting yourself into. I hope your husband proves he is worthy of you!

That is good that you have an individual counselor (but unfortunate that you have to wait such a long time until your second appointment!).

I'm sure this is a tough time for you right now.... Best wishes with everything!

SusanneH posted 12/24/2019 11:37 AM

outofsorts,

That is a really, really tough situation Susanne. I am sure at this point that you do know what you are getting yourself into. I hope your husband proves he is worthy of you!

yes, it is. And, I do know what I'm getting in to. I've decided to take the chance. And, yes, it is scary. Once I made the decision, I actually almost felt a panic later in the day. But, we were best friends before this and we're getting along (right now, anyway ) . It's so hard to believe he was doing all of this while being so nice, doing things for me all the time. I'm an ill, housebound person, and he does ALL the shopping, does his own cooking (not 'real' cooking, but enough), and any time I need something out of the house he almost runs to get it. He attends to all of those needs. The main 'problem' I have with him (of course, BESIDES the cheating & lying!!! ), is that he isn't at all romantic, and not even affectionate. He never has been, and with all that's happened, I've been trying to get him to see I need it very much now. Even if it's only a little! He goes up to the dog and cuddles & coos with her, but never me. I used that analogy on him, and he just doesn't 'get' it. So, I either have to realize that since he's never been that way,I can't expect him to change at almost 70 to change SO much. But, I DO expect him to work harder than usual to get us back on track. No one can 'make' him do it, and in trying to do the 180, I'm not mentioning it any more, either. I'll either decide to live with it or not. He asked me the last time we talked about it why I'm 'just now' bringing it up. ....Shows just how much he doesn't listen .I've been mentioning it for a long time. I told him I could put up with it before (my 1st H wasn't really affectionate or romantic either, but enough to where I could tell he really cared for me & loved me til the day he died.) ....sorry to go on & on about the same thing, but it's been a stickler in all of this.

As everything else...One day at a time.

Best of everything to you.

thanks again for 'listening' .

(((((HUGS))))) & peace

& MERRY CHRISTMAS & HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!! (if you can )

[This message edited by SusanneH at 12:31 PM, December 24th (Tuesday)]

Hurt1227 posted 2/19/2020 09:06 AM

I am fairly new to this club. My dday was in September. I have been married nearly 31 years, together 33, and I lived with my WH one year prior to getting married.

He has always been loving, supportive and we had a good sex life. Although, I didnít know how important oral was to him, I now understand why I didnít. He was getting it elsewhere. He did try performing oral on me on different occasions. He performed it during our first time being together sexually, after dating for a while. I found this to be a turn off because, I didnít think that was something you did in the beginning of forming a relationship. I too had/have my own sexual hang ups. He says, that he put me on a pedestal and he didnít feel like a wife was suppose to perform oral sex. Iím puzzled by his statement, because I havenít always been his wife. When I mentioned that to him his response was that he was working to build a relationship with me and that he didnít want that from me. I was at a higher level. Help.....how does that make sense?

I discovered that my WH cheated on me over 25 years ago, and hasnít cheated since; at least that is what he claims.
In Sept he confessed to cheating during the early part of our marriage and hasnít cheated in over 25 years.

He confessed to seeing two women that he met in clubs prior to starting a relationship with me. According to my WH he met these women that approached him and asked if he wanted to have some ďfunĒ. He asked, how much and was told $20. The first one who he has had the longest relationship with and whom he continued seeing a number of years after we were married, there was no intercourse, so he says. He did admit to performing oral sex on her twice. One night was the first night he was with her in a hotel room she rented. How nasty! He said, he didnít continue performing oral on her because it just wasnít good; however he continued seeing this woman for years. Prior to us living together she did occasionally visit his apartment and even stayed over one night. Do men allow those types of women to stay over? Maybe, I Ďm just naive. He says that he has never kissed either women. I find that hard to believe. The woman he spent the least amount of time with, he doesnít know her last name and she has never been to his apartment. He did admit to receiving a bj in his car because for some reason he wasnít allowed in her apartment on that particular day.

Iím struggling because one of these really feel like a relationship to me, although he keeps saying that it was not. That it was strictly oral sex and transactional. Something just doesnít feel right! I canít put my hands on it, but my gut is telling me that there is more.

He does not really know when things ended. What he is sure of is that it never happened while leaving in our current home. He said, that he would go months with out contacting these women or them contacting him; however, out of the blue he would call them or they would call him at work and ask, if he/they wanted to get together and things would start up again.

My WH is a quiet, hardworking, shy man that doesnít really have friends. He is very family oriented. Even around family he is very quiet and stays to himself. He tried to please me in all areas and itís so difficult to believe that he would betray me and that he had so little regard for these women. I told him that itís hard for me to believe that he didnít try to satisfy these women like he did/does with me. He said, it was totally about him.

My WH was in his late 30ís when we got married. I think I associated age with knowledge and wisdom. Iím
learning that he may have really been somewhat naive about relationships and he had never been in a real and meaningful relationship.

I am just devastated. He seems to be remorseful and is trying. He started going to a counselor (something that I never thought he would agree to). He doesnít see his counselor any longer but we are in couples counseling. We are working on improving our communication but he just seems so superficial.

This is so hard. I may never understand the things that Iím trying to understand.

Sorry, that Iím all over the place and the long rant. I just need to communicate with someone besides him and the counselor.

outofsorts posted 2/19/2020 21:27 PM

Hi Hurt,

I am so sorry you are here.....

Hopefully more people (smarter people than I) will also chime in with some helpful thoughts.

He tried to please me in all areas and itís so difficult to believe that he would betray me and that he had so little regard for these women.

My wh is/was also a people pleaser and conflict avoidant. Our issues may be a bit similar in that WH wasn't happy with our sex life, brought it up once and then five or so years later decided to cheat on me partially because the issue wasn't resolved. Conflict avoidance does seem to be one thing that leads people to cheat. On the other hand, I am also conflict avoidant and have never done anything approaching cheating.

My WH also seemed to have a lot of respect for women. So it was totally mindblowing to find out that he was cheating on me with prostitutes (and human trafficking victims which he didn't know about only because he didn't want to think about it).


This is so hard. I may never understand the things that Iím trying to understand.

I definitely sympathize with this... One of the few posts I actually started was "Do you ever stop asking why?" I am still not able to wrap my head around it and I'm almost a year out from dday. In my experience, I've gotten some answers which is helpful but nothing that is even close to equal to the amount of pain I've experienced. At this point I've mostly stopped asking why even though it still doesn't make sense.


Sorry, that Iím all over the place and the long rant. I just need to communicate with someone besides him and the counselor.

Totally understandable! Other than WH and the counselor I don't have anyone else to share this with either. And, honestly, most people don't really understand the trauma of infidelity unless they've lived through it. Please come back and post as often as you need to!

It is good that your husband is trying. This does get easier to cope with as time passes - if you deal with it, at least.


(((hugs)))

Falling posted 2/20/2020 13:36 PM

hi everyone. Over 18 months out and still struggling. I wonder if any of you can recommend any books that have helped you at all? Some that I've looked at are much more focussed on traditional affairs. I'm getting to the point where I think I might have to walk away because I just can't seem to fix myself as things are.

outofsorts posted 2/21/2020 20:30 PM

Hi Falling,

I'm so sorry to hear that you are still struggling....

I have probably read a lot of the same books that you have (After the Affair, Not "Just Friends", etc.) and yep - they're basically all about affairs. I've gotten some helpful information out of almost everything I've read but nothing applies 100%.

Some infidelity-related resources that I've found helpful (note: many of these are geared towards spouses of Sex Addicts. My WH isn't a sex addict but these resources are still very good) are:

- The PartnerHope website / blog. I've gone back and read through all of the blog posts a few times.

- The two podcast episodes of The Addicted Mind mentioned in this post https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=617809&HL=70701

- The Helping Couples Heal podcast which was started by the same therapists from the above Addicted Mind Podcast. They only have about a dozen episodes so far but will hopefully be creating more.


As for non-infidelity related books that I find helpful:

- Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me)
- The Brene Brown Books
- Resilient by Rick Hansen

I've also found meditation to be extremely helpful and can share some books / resources related to meditation if you are interested.


I'd also love to hear other recommendations from anyone else!

As for me, tomorrow is my first Dday Antiversary. WH oftens gets asked to work Saturdays which I am normally all for but I asked him a few weeks ago not to work on the 22nd which he agreed to and then forgot about. I came into work today to find a text from him saying "it looks like I'll be working tomorrow". I basically told him that I don't give a f if he works but I can't believe he forgot that I asked him not to. And then I spent the next forty minutes crying on the floor of the wellness room before I could recover and get myself back to work.

WH has been doing 99% of things right since Dday but that was just cold. Even if he had forgotten you would think he would be thoughtful enough to ask me before agreeing to it. I will bring this up and talk through it in the near future (and he knows this and knows he fed up) but I don't have the energy at the moment. I am both pissed and apathetic at the same time.

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