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High conflict WW, starting D process - how/when did you disclose

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AboveAverage7913 posted 11/21/2020 07:41 AM

Of course I will rely heavily on my atty on this topic, but interested to get the collective wisdom of SI...

Were you able to share the home?

How / when did you separate?

I want to go for full custody - so leaving is not a good move.

How did you get your WW out of the house?

Ratpicker posted 11/21/2020 15:27 PM

Above- the answers to your questions depends on the state that you live in. Depends on if you are filing for a fault based divorce. In your state will it gain you the advantages that you seek. Your own attorney will be able to give the best answers but he will need to get feedback from you on what is your highest priority(s).

Do not disclose any information on faults of your WW until your attorney has cleared you to do so! You don't want to show her your hand. Do not consider leaving the marital home until cleared by your attorney. Be the best dad you can be. And keep your "hands clean". Unless your attorney advises that your behavior (dating, appearance of "moving on" etc) like spending money in an unusual manner, changing direct payroll deposit - don't do it. You want to keep your position in the best condition possible to achieve your priorities.

Document everything you can.

Freeme posted 11/23/2020 07:35 AM

Since your WW is highly volitile I'd carry a VAR on me whenever I'm around her. We have had many people on SI get involved with Fake DV calls to the police.

Also be quick to call the 911 if she is making threats or talking about suicide. All of this will be good evidence against her once it's time for court.

Are you sleeping in your own room?
Continue to push her to get a job.
Focus on the kids as much as possible and make sure you are involved in their school, doctor appoitments, dental... and document your involvement.

In reading your other other posts it appears your WW has gone off the deep end. It also appears that she has had many emotional problems for a long time but you've always taken the path of least resistance so as to keep things calm. You are going to have to start thinking about what's best for you and the kids going forward. Choose your battles but don't get walked all over.

KatieKat posted 11/23/2020 15:00 PM

Your WW is mentally ill. This needs to be understood by your attorney. It is a huge factor in custody.

barcher144 posted 11/23/2020 20:46 PM

Proceed very very carefully. Get to a GOOD attorney as soon as you can and do precisely what they say. I had one mediocre attorney and that cost me a lot. I had a second attorney who was absolutely negligent and that cost me almost everything. My third attorney has been amazing... I am hoping for a reasonable for the judge soon.

I don't know your story at all but I have gone through 2 years of hell since my STBXWW filed for divorce (we started in-house separation in late August 2018) after 2 years of hell trying to reconcile post D-day.

I was accused of all sorts of crazy shit and the judge and the custody evaluator believed a lot of it. We have each spent $30,000 in legal fees (i.e., $60,000 total) and we're still not divorced.

Definitely get yourself a VAR and keep it on you at all times. Make sure that you know the laws for your location... is it one-party or two-party consent? For one-party consent, I can record a conversation in which I am the participant (i.e., I consent!). But, I cannot record a conversation between two other people unless one of them consents.

We have had many people on SI get involved with Fake DV calls to the police.

I am one these people. And no one would think that a woman would make up such a thing. And everyone believes that a guy would beat up a woman.

p.s. My attorney says to be very wary of Cordell and Cordell. Apparently they don't pay their attorneys very well, so the good ones leave after a few years. Meaning, you either get an inexperienced attorney or you don't get a good attorney.

[This message edited by barcher144 at 8:48 PM, November 23rd (Monday)]

AboveAverage7913 posted 11/25/2020 03:37 AM

Thanks, all.

I am actively using a VAR, and I've put down a retainer with an atty who claims to have experience in my situation.

This will almost certainly be a contested D, but I have a lot of evidence even though there is no formal diagnosis of PD (yet).

Current plan is to continue to document everything and get through the holidays to avoid giving the kids the shit sandwich of a lifetime of PTSD around the holidays.

Even after WW is served, I cannot leave the house or force her out. Been reading Bill Eddy.

Very mindful of false DV claims. In home security cams are a blessing...

barcher144 posted 11/25/2020 08:55 AM

Even after WW is served, I cannot leave the house or force her out.

Talk to your attorney. In my case, the judge had basically determined that our relationship was high conflict and it didn't make sense for the two of us to be in the same house.

gr8ful posted 11/27/2020 20:28 PM

Pulling for you AboveAverage7913. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving (assuming you’re in the USA).

Robert22205https posted 11/29/2020 13:36 PM

Consider placing a home security camera in the room where you 'talk' or have contact most often.

Bigger posted 11/30/2020 08:07 AM

What does your attorney say about full custody? Does he think it’s a reasonable or attainable goal?
The rule-of-thumb is that you need confirmed, long-term reasons like mental issues, drug-abuse or relevant proven criminal behavior (neglect, sexual abuse, physical abuse) in order to get sole custody unless the other parent willingly agrees to the terms.

I doubt VAR recordings of confrontations or even flagrant infidelity will impact custody in any way or form.

AboveAverage7913 posted 12/1/2020 04:58 AM

Thanks, all, for checking in.

Made it through Thanksgiving.

I have 3x inside cams - In fact, the cam footage played a role in DD 1.

Also have pics of many FB Messenger and Kik chats that are quite incriminating - WW is unaware I have this.

I'm in hyper vigilance mode. Looking for a burner phone, etc.

Also struggling with the implications - financially and emotionally - for the kids.

There are signs that WW is not well, mentally - I know better at this point, not to try to control. But it's difficult watching her struggle.

2020 really, truly, deeply sucks.

I'll check in from time to time, appreciate the support here. Strategizing with the atty is the next step.

Freeme posted 12/1/2020 07:56 AM

Make sure to check the car for the burner phone. Also, consider placing a VAR in the car. YOu don't need more evidence of the affair but if you are interested in if she has a burner phone you might pick up a conversation that way.

Sounds like you are trying keep things low conflict over the holidays and lay low. Make sure you continue to get your ducks in a row during this time.

AboveAverage7913 posted 12/1/2020 08:54 AM

Thanks, Freeme.

This is exactly where I'm at.

I've been through the car, cannot find the burner though I don't need more confirmation and I'm not sure what I'd do if I found it...

You are correct, I would prefer not to blow up the holidays.

barcher144 posted 12/1/2020 09:40 AM

Also struggling with the implications - financially and emotionally - for the kids.

Honestly, I cannot encourage you ENOUGH to think about this more and more and more.

I don't know what I would have done differently, but my divorce cost about $60,000 (i.e., her legal fees + my legal fees) and that's definitely money that could have been better spent on the kids than on lawyers.

In addition, my kids have suffered and continue to suffer quite a bit from the divorce.

Those are the actual, sunlit facts.

After listing those facts, I can complain that my STBXW is a bitch, a whore, a greedy person, whatever, to justify what I did... but the fact is that I still spent $30,000 to fight STBXW in court and I still allowed the kids to be caught in the middle.

I definitely have a few regrets, but I also don't think that those missteps ended up being a major factor in my high-conflict divorce. STBXW certainly didn't appreciate me antagonizing her early in the divorce process, but that antagonism didn't lead her to ask for the ridiculous at trial or to lie at trial or....

Again, tread very very carefully. This shit sucks and it's going to be difficult for everyone.

[This message edited by barcher144 at 8:55 AM, December 2nd (Wednesday)]

WornDown posted 12/1/2020 13:39 PM

Been reading Bill Eddy

Good. Splitting is the how-to manual on high conflict divorce.

Remember, when describing your STBX to third parties (judge, guardian ad litem, evaluators), no judgements on her, no editorializing, "Just the facts" Document, document, document.

And, if things look like they are getting too out of hand (by her, or you), just walk away. Leave the house and take a walk to cool it down. The guys are the ones (90%) of the time that the police arrest or tell to leave, regardless of what the ex was doing.

WornDown posted 12/1/2020 14:05 PM

A few more things:

Your WW is mentally ill. This needs to be understood by your attorney. It is a huge factor in custody.

No, it's really not. Not unless she is a threat to the children's welfare. Being a shitty human but an OK mom is just fine enough to have (some) custody as far as the courts are concerned.

What does your attorney say about full custody? Does he think it’s a reasonable or attainable goal?
The rule-of-thumb is that you need confirmed, long-term reasons like mental issues, drug-abuse or relevant proven criminal behavior (neglect, sexual abuse, physical abuse) in order to get sole custody unless the other parent willingly agrees to the terms.
I doubt VAR recordings of confrontations or even flagrant infidelity will impact custody in any way or form.

Bigger is correct. Either parent trying to get 100% custody is a VERY tall order, and for good reason. Your attorney will know what to expect in your jurisdiction, and with a particular judge. Be prepared to accept less than 100% (that's not to say you don't go for it, just be prepared for less).

I've been through the car, cannot find the burner though I don't need more confirmation and I'm not sure what I'd do if I found it...

Yeah, I agree. You've made the decision to divorce, you already have proof of the infidelity (if that is even needed for your divorce - some states remove alimony if adultery is proven). That's all you need.

It won't help your custody case (showing she is having an affair), so don't worry about it. Focus the mental energy on the kids, the custody hearing and not on being a detective and trying to "bust" her. Again.

Put your mental energy to good use. Good luck and fight the good fight!

AboveAverage7913 posted 12/2/2020 07:21 AM

@Worndown, thanks for your comments.

I'm documenting.

My IC thinks that WW may be on the edge - manic.

Taking it one day at a time, between kids @ home most of the time and everything else, I'd prefer to avoid a major episode in the house.

KatieKat posted 12/2/2020 10:09 AM

These “my therapist thinks” ~ that person can’t testify so I see what you mean. She’s nuts but undiagnosed. Ugh. Good luck to you.

AboveAverage7913 posted 12/6/2020 12:00 PM

coming back to this:
"It won't help your custody case (showing she is having an affair), so don't worry about it. Focus the mental energy on the kids, the custody hearing and not on being a detective and trying to "bust" her. Again."

What if WW created a profile at an online dating site and met a rando during a pandemic with 3 kids in a school pod / hybrid learning model.

Our kindergarten has strict rules re: exposure tracking. WW is cheating on the whole damn community at this point.

My atty thinks this information might have some sway on custody.

Butforthegrace posted 12/6/2020 12:08 PM

Family courts tend to favor women/mothers on custody. My belief is that if you think you can show that the mother is putting the kids at risk (and in this era of Covid, that includes being around groups of random people), you owe it to yourself to gather as much data/evidence as you can, and present it.

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