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Does anybody has any recommendations for this? As long as BH is around and talking to me, I am fine but I have observed even at those time I am bit anxious thinking about the future.

CL seems to suffer with constant anxiety too.

I cant seem to concentrate on anything. I dont leave my bed most of the times. I know I need to do actions but I am so scared all the time. I am tired of this feeling.

Any suggestions will be of great help.

Happy new year :)

Are you guys anxious about the same things? Is it all about the future for both of you?

Talking to each other is probably the best thing. Unless there is something truly out of whack, something that can be diagnosed, especially if you find yourself in your bed most of the time. Meds might be in order for a while until you both can get it under control. But even with meds, it sounds like maybe you both should be talking to each other a bit more about how each of you is feeling. CL may not be open to that right now, but he may be if he see's you are having the same troubles.

EF, I've been following you and CL since the beginning. Here's my view.

You still seem too attached to your BH for your healing. I fear you have replaced your OM as your "fix" for validation with your BH.

Your BH had sex with you the other day and you were bent out of shape that he didn't kiss and cuddle with you. Did you even think about your husband's POV before you got upset?

It seems that you are treating your BH like an OM, someone you had sex with to make you feel good and validated. Why is that? Why are you so dependent on others to make you feel good about yourself?

Also, you made sure that OM was your first. Your BH thought he was until dday, so doing that was for your benefit on some internal level. I suspect it was a form of self-protection to being vulnerable to your BH.

You are still in surface panic mode. What are you so scared of? And why? What are you doing to find out why?

It is not our BH's job to hold us up. That validation is what got us into this mess to begin with. "Man-up" EF. Learn how to self-sooth. Learn how to work thru the panic alone. Learn how to heal yourself WITHOUT relying so heavily on external outlets.

CL might up and leave today, or even tomorrow. If so, where does that put you? Are you only here for his benefit? Are you just trying to preserve what is "safe" and familiar to you?

Are you guys anxious about the same things? Is it all about the future for both of you?

To some extent. We are anxious about the ruined (by me ) past .. future .. everything. I guess CL is thinking about a way to get out this mess.. he is still not sure if he wants to R or not .. (But yes he is still around and I am so thankful for that) and I cant see my future without him. So if he decides to walk out, I dont know what will I do with my life. All this makes me/him very anxious.

We do communicate. After I told him everything his questions have dried down but we cant seem to have normal conversation. Like we did before. I know its too early for it but I do miss going out with him laughing and talking to him.

You still seem too attached to your BH for your healing. I fear you have replaced your OM as your "fix" for validation with your BH.

Yes, I agree. I am still very dependent on him. Before if we fought I would turn to somebody else OM/other friends for comfort. Now that I realize the pattern I am not calling up anybody. My best friend who knows about As also doesnt seem to comfort me and tells me what I should be concentrating on. I know its a lot harder for CL to just be around me. But he is and he does criticize me and points out my mistakes. So yes.. basically there is nobody saying nice things about me and that bothers me like hell. The realization is hitting me so hard!!! Its too much to take. So again I turn to CL looking for comfort.

Did you even think about your husband's POV before you got upset?

I was too engrossed in thoughts of feeling degraded (by OMs) that I couldnt really think of him.

Why are you so dependent on others to make you feel good about yourself?

Bcz I dont feel good about myself. I always criticize myself a lot and always feel I could have done something better. Now that I have put US in so much deep shit its impossible to feel good about myself.

I suspect it was a form of self-protection to being vulnerable to your BH.

Could you explain this? I did not understand this. And no it wasnt good with OM. He treated me in the worst possible way

What are you so scared of? And why? What are you doing to find out why?

I am scared about the past , future, present. I am scared about myself. I am scared that I had become such a filthy person I was OK with it!!! god.. how can i ever trust my judgement? I am scared that I have spoiled CL's life, shattered his dreams, hurt him in worst possible way. I am scared we will ever come out of it. I am scared if I will ever come out of it. People say it gets better .. I am not sure anymore. I try to analyze my ways of thinking. I am IC but unfortunately due to vacation season did not have much chances to continue frequently. I am digging my past and its getting disturbing process.

If so, where does that put you? Are you only here for his benefit? Are you just trying to preserve what is "safe" and familiar to you?

I panic thinking about it. I am so afraid of the unknown.

EmotionalFool, I've read a lot of your husband's posts and I've commented on his threads. I hope you don't mind me responding to you.

I think you need to find out why you think CL should stay. Beyond feeling bad or sorry for you. My WH could never answer me why. Why should I stay with him after what he did, and IMO his betrayal was not as severe as yours.

Aubrie84 asked this and you ignored it but according to CL's posts you made sure OM was your first, and slept with him a week after he asked you to marry him and after you guys agreed to wait. That is a pretty huge betrayal, EmotionalFool. Have you thought about how that must make him feel? How he must feel like he doesn't matter, or how his life is a lie? Can you imagine how much that would hurt. When I read that on CL's thread, I cried for him. Please try to have some empathy for the situation he is in. You are not the victim, he is.

Have you answered his questions and concerns? I remember he said at one point you had told one of your OM, you liked being a cheating wife and enjoyed cheating. Have you explained that to him?

If you really love CL as much as you say you do, maybe you will realize he deserves better than someone who would betray him like you did. He seemed to be struggling with leaving and accepting the shame of divorce, but perhaps that is what he NEEDS.

Do you think CL should be consoling you after you were the one who cheated, multiple times? Do you think CL deserves someone who is faithful to him?

I've been reading your posts for a while and I have a question for you, why did you choose the name EmotionalFool? If I am not mistaken, CL's WW had PAs.

But anyways, best of luck! Sometimes the affair IS a dealbreaker, and if that is the case, it just is. You have to respect that. If this is too much for CL, he can leave and maybe should leave. A single affair is too much for a lot of us, so the fact that he is still there after all of your affairs is really brave of CL. Appreciate that he is there with you still.

Wow, I'm sitting here shaking my head. It's still all about you. Your fear, your discomfort, your anxiety, how your husband treats you. Entitled much?

We do communicate. After I told him everything his questions have dried down but we cant seem to have normal conversation. Like we did before. I know its too early for it but I do miss going out with him laughing and talking to him.

Ummm...I "only" had an EA and it was months before my husband would laugh and have "fun" with me. So what happens when CL doesn't tease and joke and smile with you? How are you going to react?

I am still very dependent on him. Before if we fought I would turn to somebody else OM/other friends for comfort. Now that I realize the pattern I am not calling up anybody. My best friend who knows about As also doesnt seem to comfort me and tells me what I should be concentrating on. I know its a lot harder for CL to just be around me. But he is and he does criticize me and points out my mistakes. So yes.. basically there is nobody saying nice things about me and that bothers me like hell.

So you cheated on your husband your entire relationship and it's still his job to make you feel better? Am I reading that right? You claim that you realize this pattern, but what are you going to change it?

I suspect it was a form of self-protection to being vulnerable to your BH.

Could you explain this?

The thing is, you were going to tie your life to BH. He would have been your first but changing that kept something back for yourself that he didn't know about. This create emotional distance between you and him to protect your feelings in case he rejected you.

And no it wasnt good with OM. He treated me in the worst possible way

Did he treat you horribly during the A or is this a hind-sight comment? If true during the A, why did you allow yourself to be treated that way? Why did you keep going back for more when you had a perfectly wonderful fiance who was waiting to love you?

Bcz I dont feel good about myself. I always criticize myself a lot and always feel I could have done something better.

Why?

@BrokenLauren

I think you need to find out why you think CL should stay. Beyond feeling bad or sorry for you.

Honestly there absolutely no reason for him to stay. Right now I struggle to find anything good in me and I guess he will better off without me. Maybe when I can gather myself together I can answer this question.

Have you thought about how that must make him feel?

Yes. It drives me crazy thinking about it. I did not plan it that way but yes I chose to go and chose not to stop it.

Have you explained that to him?

Yes. I did and said everything OM#1 expected. I just did not want to lose him. I am really struggling to figure out why.

If you really love CL as much as you say you do, maybe you will realize he deserves better than someone who would betray him like you did.

Yes, I do realize it.

Do you think CL should be consoling you after you were the one who cheated, multiple times?

No.

Do you think CL deserves someone who is faithful to him?

Yes.

why did you choose the name EmotionalFool?

Bcz most of my actions are emotionally driven. At least that’s what I thought.

Appreciate that he is there with you still.

Yes. I do realize it. Someone else would have ran off or abandoned me by this time. He is a very nice man with clean heart who thinks and cares for his family. I deeply regret putting him in this position.

I know it doenst make sense to BSs when a WS say I never intended to hurt u on purpose. Sad part is I never thought about him or myself or my family or my future while doing stuff for OM#1/OM#2. The realization is very disturbing.

@Aubrie84

I am having difficulty with handling all the emotions. I know it shouldn’t be all about me but I seem to cling on to him.

I panicked again in the morning and clung on him. I then thought why did I reacted that way. Bcz he said I should prepare myself to spend my life without him. OK so I already know that’s a possibility so why do I react in such a way?

The situation a much similar to how it was in 2008. He had rejected and was still around supporting me. Talking to me all the time, supporting me and telling me to move on. I had him and yet I did not. I cant seem to handle this well. The uncertainty drives me crazy. Uptil now I blamed him but now I realize the issue is with me. I cant seem stop thinking about the future without him which makes me very anxious. I know I need to focus on present but it is the place I don’t wanna be. Facing the truth.

So you cheated on your husband your entire relationship and it's still his job to make you feel better?

No its not his job. But whatever he says I seem to absorb. If he says I m worthless I feel worthless. If he says I shouldn’t touch him I feel like I m not worthy of touching anybody. If he say I m devilish I actually believe that. I have been reading about boundaries and I realize I have boundary issues. Every negative thing he says about me I seem to magnify it in my head. Will it be a good idea if I distance myself from him for a while? It will be tremendously difficult for me but I guess it will be good for him. Or do u have any suggestions? He yells and then I break down asking for support. I don’t know how to break this cycle?

Did he treat you horribly during the A or is this a hind-sight comment? If true during the A, why did you allow yourself to be treated that way? Why did you keep going back for more when you had a perfectly wonderful fiance who was waiting to love you?

It is a hind-sight comment. But when I look back I shudder thinking what all I did for him. Its really driving me crazy thinking why. In one of the prev threads I mentioned I define my self-worth with how people see me. SO I guess when he said he loved me and will love me no matter who comes and goes in his life, I felt important. It also has to do something with fear of losing/rejection. Cant really put everything together yet.

Bcz I dont feel good about myself. I always criticize myself a lot and always feel I could have done something better.

Why?

Bcz I know I have the potential to achieve much more but I just don’t. In hind-sight every situation looks like it could have been handled better. Again it’s a cycle. I don’t know how to break it.

Aubrie84 asked this and you ignored it but according to CL's posts you made sure OM was your first, and slept with him a week after he asked you to marry him and after you guys agreed to wait. That is a pretty huge betrayal, EmotionalFool. Have you thought about how that must make him feel? How he must feel like he doesn't matter, or how his life is a lie? Can you imagine how much that would hurt. When I read that on CL's thread, I cried for him. Please try to have some empathy for the situation he is in. You are not the victim, he is.

You are still dancing around on this question. I am dying to hear your answer to this question. This must be the most difficult part to accept for him.

EF,

I have been following your posts, and I think you have a very unhealthy attachment to CL. That is what others are saying as well, and I think you know this intellectually, but it has not sunk in at an emotional level for you maybe.

Have you read any books, or things on self esteem or codependency? Have you discussed this with your IC?

Taken from the CoDA website;

I have difficulty making decisions.

I judge what I think, say, or do harshly, as never good enough.

I am embarrassed to receive recognition, praise, or gifts.

I value others’ approval of my thinking, feelings, and behavior over my own.

I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person.

I constantly seek recognition that I think I deserve.

I have difficulty admitting that I made a mistake.

I need to appear to be right in the eyes of others and will even lie to look good.

I am unable to ask others to meet my needs or desires.

I perceive myself as superior to others.

I look to others to provide my sense of safety.

I have difficulty getting started, meeting deadlines, and completing projects.

I have trouble setting healthy priorities.

Do these ring true? I know that everyone most likely falls into the spectrum of any number of conditions, but reading your post I sense a desperation to get some approval from CL, or that he can save you if he just does something for you. It sounds to me, like you are holding on to the hope that he will save you. I might be way off base, but that is what I am hearing.

There is a saying that my BW told me about helping yourself, it goes something like this: "no one is coming to save you, the calvary is not riding in to help, you have to do it for yourself", she also told me that I have to 'sort myself' out. All very true statements, and things I had to hear at a certain point when I wanted my BW to somehow save me. That if she just said the right thing to me that everything would be ok. But you see that attitude was very selfish. I wanted her to help me, when I should have been strong enough to help myself, and her. She got sic of my selfishness, I hope you sort yourself out before CL gets tried and completely detaches. It sounds like he is on his way, not trying to be cruel, but again, that is just what I am seeing in your post.

I might be way off base, but that is what I am hearing. THat you want your BH to somehow make it all ok for you, and once you hear the right thing, you will be ready and willing to sort yourself out.

I don't know, maybe I am projecting, maybe it rings true.

Anyway, good luck.

No I am not trying to do that.

OM#1 called and talked to me for 2 hrs. He was crying and telling his life would be worthess without me. My heart just went out to him. I felt guilty for being happy. I wanted to see him for one last time and assure him that I was still there. I did not plan to have intercourse but I knew that was the possibility. I still went and after initial hesitation I gave in. So my initial responses were bcz he wanted to meet me. I wanted to support him blah blah blah.

The reason I cant answer this question is right now it just doenst make sense. I have always focused on external reasons and when I m trying to go deep and search my inner most reasons I am not getting answers. I would do anything to make OM#1 stay. I did not want to commit to him. Deep dwon I knew he is not the right person. I put reputation of myself, my family, CL and his family, my future at stake. For what? I don’t understand. Sadly at that time I was so emotionally driven that I couldn’t think straight. Now when I read and understand that its not just emotions that play a part I am trying to understand inner issues. So I don’t answer this question bcz I don’t know the answer myself.

@badchoice

I realize its unhealty. What I dont understand is where to get started and how. I dont know if its already late. Gosh I cant take my mind off the outcome.

I am currently reading a book on boundaries in relationship. My IC is on vacation so cant get in touch with her. Whatever negative symptoms I read i ssem to identify with it. So wi ll wait until I discuss with IC. I will also start reading a book on self esteem.

[This message edited by EmotionalFool at 1:18 PM, January 3rd (Thursday)]

A great book on self esteem is "the six pillars of self esteem". it and older book, but considered one of the best.

Check it out. It helped me.

Gosh I cant take my mind off the outcome.

It's hard, but you have to stop doing that. It will keep you from focusing on what you have to do. It's not about the outcome. It is about changing the flaws within you, becoming some one you are happy with, and can love. Only then will you be able to fully share an authentic life with someone else.

EmotionalFool,

What has changed now? I don't see what makes CL so important to you now, when before he wasn't. As someone from the outside, it definitely seems like OM1 was your priority. Would you disagree with that?

I think you are really downplaying how big of a betrayal the sleeping with OM first was. Its a sickening, haunting betrayal. Its not some sort of he was sad and I wanted to make him better deal. I just do not get it.

How do you tell your husband (then fiance) you want to wait for marriage, and then go have sex with someone else? How does that happen. And how do you not get that its wrong and how do you not realize NOW that it is a huge betrayal. Someone else said you danced around the question and they were right.

If you wanted OM to be happy so much, that you would lie to your husband like that, OM is who you want. Think about it, Emotional Fool.

Your husband on your wedding night or honeymoon (or whenever) thought that you two were experiencing something together for the first time. Instead you were lying to him and exposing him to diseases. You chose to sleep with his friend first, even after he proposed to you. How do you not see that as wrong? And you lied and misled CL for months/years.

Please for the love of God try to understand where he must be. How he must feel. You write a lot about how hurt you are... but you were the one who cheated. You aren't the betrayed one.

There is a lot of stuff in CL's posts that are heartbreaking. If I remember correctly, he said you hooked up with OM while he was in the next room. How you bragged about being a cheating wife. I think you need to really think if you changed so much so quickly, or if you are just scared now that you are losing your safety.

Yes. I do realize it. Someone else would have ran off or abandoned me by this time. He is a very nice man with clean heart who thinks and cares for his family. I deeply regret putting him in this position.

How can you explain to him how you did those things?

If CL, is a nice man who in your words deserves someone who is faithful to him, then what you have to do is clear. Hopefully you are brave enough and care about him enough to let him go. I think you need to do a LOT of work on yourself before you are ready for marriage. Maybe marriage or LTR's aren't for you? Or maybe CL wasn't the right guy for you?

He talked about being scared of his family, and the backlash of an early divorce. You can help him there. You can explain what you did. All of the betrayal. All of the OM. It might hurt you, but it would help CL move on and get the support he needs. Don't be selfish and make someone stay with you, when they deserve better and don't want to be there.

EmotionalFool, I know this may seem harsh or mean but its really not meant to be. I'm going through a lot of the same things and I'm glad my WH left, even though its hard. He wasn't a person capable of being a good husband. I think you are similar to him in a lot of ways. He didn't cheat before we were married or with multiple people, but he thought about himself a lot. He would complain about himself even though I was hurt. And having him gone has made my life so much easier. Please ask CL to start posting again. I think there a lot of people here who can help him. Good luck!

BrokenLauren,

This is not the forum for a BS to swing 2x4s. Please follow the forum rules, or you will be removed.