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Brief exchange last night as I collected the kids from WXW's place:

DD - "Daddy, would you mind if mummy got a house with OM"

ME - "That's not up to me sweetie"

WXW "Why are you saying that DD?"

Why indeed? Then back at mine I spend the next two hours comforting both kids as they worry about WXW getting married to OM and them having to get a new daddy. Of course I tell them than they will never have a new daddy and that I will always be there.

So DD wants to talk to her mummy later on and we call. As usual no answer and she then calls back. I then talk to her after the kids have said hello. Turns out she has been fishing with DD asking her about how she would feel if she got a house with OM.

This is such bullshit. She is making a 6 year old girl feel that she has some kind of say in these things when the reality is that WXW will do whatever suits her regardless. I am pissed off about this behaviour. I see it as just more justification for her own selfish actions. WXW said that DD was all positive about the idea earlier. Didn't look very positive to me as she cried in my arms. She is using her kids to continue to justify her actions - the kids love it all and its all great - no harm done etc etc.

This seems to me like typical WS crap, but it is manipulative and the ones that pay for it are two innocent kids. While I don't give a shit about who WXW wants to spend time with, her constant manipulation of her kids to justify her position is unacceptable.

Should I call her out on it or just focus on the kids when they are with me?

While I'm at it, I endlessly depressed with WXW buying DD (who is SIX!) boob tubes, cropped tops and make up. FFS!

DD is a very smart kid, but if her mother has her way she'll grow up thinking the most important thing she could be is pretty rather than kind, generous, honest and smart. Drives me fucking crazy.

Can't fix stupid eh?

rant over.

Ugh! Really makes you wonder what you found attractive about her in the first place, doesn't it?

You are a great daddy, velveteer.

Should I call her out on it or just focus on the kids when they are with me?

I don't know what to tell you about this. Would she listen to you?

While I'm at it, I endlessly depressed with WXW buying DD (who is SIX!) boob tubes, cropped tops and make up. FFS!

This is one of my pet peeves. I really have problems with mom's who dress their sweet little girls like sluts in training.

(((velveteer)))

As far as moving in with or M the OM there really is nothing you can do about that. Unless he is some sort of threat to the kids i.e. drug addict, abuser, molester etc. She is free to live where she wants. As far as dressing your DD like an adult. Well you do have a say in that. I certainly would say something to her about this. But in the end you cant make her listen. Co-parenting with a selfish idiot can be taxing to say the least. I feel for man.

Should I call her out on it or just focus on the kids when they are with me?

As if she would really listen to you? Bring up the concern, realize that you will be ignored and focus on the kids.

Strength

Dude, feel your pain. You can probably already answer your own questions on much of this. My guess is she either won't listen to you at all OR she will give you lip service and do what she wants anyways. Either way you are probably wasting good energy on a negative situation. Put your good energy into your kids my man. It will come back to you in good energy from them. And that is all that matters.

As others have stated put your energy into your children. That energy will be returned to you a million fold when they are older and remember YOU as the responsible parent. The positive influence you have on them will counteract the stupidity that your EX puts in front of them and they will remember it when they are older.

I've had to deal with this and it sucks out loud. But, there truly is not much you can do. Assholes like this don't listen to reason and clearly put their selfish wants and needs above their own kids.

My stupid exWH moved into the same building as the slunt before my kids even met her. He was planning to lie and make like she was just the neighbor who he started dating. The kids saw through that in about thirty seconds and were pissed off at how he did it. So, there was no gradual intro for my kids. No ice cream on a Sunday or a movie with her and her kids every once in a while. Nope. My kids got thrown into a fucked up insta family. He knew it wasn't good for them, but, in true dickhead fashion, did it anyway. I think his parenting mantra is "they will adjust".

You just have to focus on being the best and most stable parent. Trust me, they will gravitate toward your strength. In time, they will see their mother for who and what she is. You won't have to say a word.

As far as dressing DD like a trashy video vamp, you can say something to her, but she again won't listen. Just make it clear to dd as much as possible that she is a little lady and make up, boob tops and all of that are for much older girls.

These poor kids. It makes me want to crack these wayward, irresponsible dirt bags who left right in the face about a million times.

WXW said that DD was all positive about the idea earlier. Didn't look very positive to me as she cried in my arms.

Of COURSE DD was all positive about the idea when it fell on her. She's trying to keep her mom happy.

The fact that she's honest with her feelings around you speaks volumes about the kind of Dad you are. Continue to be their safe place. Keep listening, keep validating, keep loving them and giving them that security they need.

Don't bother talking to her about moving in with the OM. My STBX is doing whatever the hell he wants, and he's enlisting the kids as his cheerleaders. He's also under the mistaken impression that they think a new stepmommy and stepsiblings will be awesome fun. What I see is the opposite-- my oldest is making the best of a shitty situation, and the younger two tell me that they don't want him to get remarried, and they don't want stepsiblings. I highly doubt that if I had spoken up, it would have been very effective. He would have seen me as jealous and controlling, it would have caused more conflict, and then he would have done whatever the hell he wanted anyway. No matter what we say, we can't get through to them because their thinking is disordered-- they never would have had As to begin with if they didn't have inner problems in the first place.

The clothing and makeup, though? Definitely say something to her. I would also throw out anything inappropriate that got sent back to my house (or at the very least, I'd bag it up and give it back to your XWW the next time you see her). I worry about this with my kids-- that the OW has lower standards for her own children and will be fine with or encourage behaviors that I am against. I won't stay silent if DD (age 4) comes home with painted fingernails or if any of the kids (ages 9 and under) are given cellphones or toys that I deem developmentally inappropriate.

Velveteer, I feel for you as this is one of the hardest parts, well it was for me.

My XWW moved out and within a week OM moved in with her, the first I knew about it was when DD7 and I were over her grandads and she said "OM stayed over at mums all night last night". I made the mistake of trying to talk to XWW about this. I suggested it might be better if the kids had time to get used to us being apart before shoving OM on them. How they needed time to adjust, it was hard enough, didn't want them to get confused etc etc. I imagine if you tried the same route you will get the same responses as below..

"its my life, I can do what I want"

"Don't I deserve to be happy"

"the kids will adjust"

"it will be like an adventure for them"

"They get on really well with OM"

"it will be good for them to be in a stable family environment"

"OM won't be around the kids much as he works late"

"the girls will love sharing a room as they can pick out their own decorations"

Etc etc. So if I were you, I'd save my breath. Suffice to say OM moved out 2 months later and the kids had even more to adjust to.

All I would advise you to do is be there and be stable for your kids. I've not really dated and never had anyone around them and spent all my time with them, actually with them. They know that I am there for them and they always want to see me. Ultimately your XWW will do whatever the hell she wants, being married didn't stop her, so why will being divorced have any impact?

With regards to the clothes, I'd suggest ensuring that you let your DD pick her own clothes to wear at yours, encourage her to wear sensible things, my usual reasoning is "well you do look nice in that, but it won't really be much good if we are going to the park" etc etc now she prefers to wear sensible clothes and as she is picking them they get worn far more. Just packup what she turns up in and either send it back or if you accidentally spill something down it, or well kids do have a habit of ripping clothes whilst playing..... just sayin'...

At least she mentioned it before it happened. STBX moved in OW without telling the kids. They had met her 3 or 4 times and one day she was living with him.

In my opinion this IS something she should be asking your Dd about before doing it. I talked to my kids about how they would feel before we moved in with my now Dh and got married.

Also please be very careful about not putting your feelings about the situation on your daughter. She is the one who will have to live with it and you will not be doing yourself any favors trying to alienate your ex because of her affair.

Interesting, hummingbird. What would you have done if your kids were adamant about not wanting your now DH in their lives?

I would have kept talking to them about it. Probably have us all go to counseling but honestly at the end of the day kids grow up and move out of the home. They can't expect mom to not date or remarry.

Luckily my kids are great and have adjusted well. I never put my ex down and didn't involve them in the fact he had an affair. And anytime he has introduced them to someone I have been encouraging and understanding. I would never want them to feel guilty for liking their dad's new girlfriend. For the most part though he deals with stuff going on in his life and I deal with stuff in mine. I don't involve myself in his life because we are no longer married and have moved on.

I feel velveteer's WXW should have talked to velveteer first, and than they both decide together how to proceed with talking to the children about it.

Thanks all for the feedback and support.

Maybe I need to just clarify things a wee bit. I certainly have no intention of talking to her about whether or not she shacks up with OM, and to be honest that's not really my concern here (other than it seems clear that the kids are not into it). We've been S for more than a year and half and I'm way past caring about her and OM.

It is more the way she engages in this kind of manipulative talk with the children. What is the point in asking DD if she thinks it would be cool if she moves in with him - she doesn't give a fuck about DD's wishes in this matter, and they won't influence her . But she is making DD think that she does have a say, and when it becomes apparent that she won't, well DD ain't going to feel too great about that.

Secondly, she uses these little 'chats' to continue in her endless need to justify her actions past and present. Its self indulgent. If she wants to move in with OM she will - just get on with it then, but don't drag the kids through all this shit in the process. And if she wants to communicate with the kids about it don't ask them - tell them its happening. Unless of course she intends to pay any attention to what they want or don't want. Otherwise its just upsets them and creates uncertainty and anxiety about the future.

Having said (ranted) all this, I know you are right - there's no point in talking to her about any of this. She wouldn't listen. Denial, justification etc etc.

I will however be speaking out about the trashy clothes.

That is your feeling. However there is no way I am going to talk to my ex about what is going on in my life first. He is no longer in my life except as a parent to our kids. He doesn't need to know what I am doing. I didn't consult him first when I got married or about having a baby. Like I said we don't need involvement in each other's lives as we are not married. My kids are all happy no matter who's house they are at so we must be doing something right.

hummingbird - I know what you are saying here and I agree that kids cannot expect their parents to not remarry or move in with anyone. I have also been careful not to bring up WXW's affair nor to make any comments about OM who has been hanging about for a long time now.

This is part of a pattern with my WXW though. She manipulates the kids all the time and simply doesn't act like the grown up she should be. By all means talk to them about it if that is what she is planning, but don't pretend to give them power when they don't have it - they just end up feeling powerless. The bottom line is that she upset them last night (and not for the first time) and she did so in a way that was unnecessary and confusing. Again.

Also I should say that I don't expect to be consulted on her plans any more than I would consult her. I just expect her to treat the kids with more consistency and respect. They are my concern, not her and OM.

V I understand what you are saying but I don't feel like it's manipulative to ask "how they feel" about something. Now if she was saying "if you don't want me to move in w/ OM I won't" then did it anyways that I can see. But as a mother she is asking how they feel about something. I have no doubt she hasn't handled a lot of this correctly just like the affair. But asking how the kids feel about something I personally don't see as manipulative. I ask my kids how they feel about all kinds of things. Doesn't mean they are always going to get what they want but so we can talk about their feelings and ways to cope.

Good luck.

I would have kept talking to them about it. Probably have us all go to counseling

That is what a healthy, unselfish parent would do, hummingbird8, and it is the right thing to do. But, do you really feel that is what velveteer's WXW is doing/going to do? No, as he has pointed out, it is just more of her manipulative, justifying behaviour.

No, I didn't mean consult with each, but when you have young children and are going to do something "big" (ie, marry, move in, have a child) it would be the right thing to do to give the other parent a head's up about the situation that is going to impact a child. This is children related stuff, although, it is your personal life, too.

As I said, you are a good Daddy, velveteer, and your gut and insight, I feel, is spot on.