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I am having difficulty getting past two things my WW holds fast to. First, (TMI) she says she never touched the OM below the waist. even though he did lots to her.

The second issue is the day I caught her at his house, she says she was there to end the A. I think it is very coincidental.

My WW is very remorseful. But I still get a lot of IDK or can't remember. But she holds fast on these two points.

Any comments or thoughts? Thank you SI, I lurk but don't post much and reading has helped me tremendously.

Hi Herkemeyer - I'm relatively new to this forum and the whole horrid situation we all find ourselves in here.

I don't know that I'm in a position to give you any good answer but I think that it's completely natural to get stuck on certain points. Mine change on a daily, no hourly basis! One minute it's how the hell did he actually 'do it' - the physical act, then it's about how could he return to her after feeling disgusted, then it's wondering whether they talked about me, if he compared me, talked to her about how I was different..... (sigh.....)

But I guess this isn't helping you and, hopefully, it's not giving you more to think about. Just that it's natural I suppose. Don't push her on certain things - make sure that before she answers you really want to know the answer - once you've heard an answer you can't unhear it.

Take care and keep reading and posting. I find once you jump into taking part in posting in SI it can help even more

You are likely stuck on these two points because they are suspicious and you don't beleive her. If she's continuing to lie, you might want to rethink whether you should agree to R.

I caught her at his house, she says she was there to end the A.

It is very common for a WS to say they were in the process of ending the A or about to end the A, when they get caught. It's warped way to think that this will somehow minimize the damage. I got caught, BUT I was just about to end it....I was I was. She needs to understand that this in NO way minimizes the damage, the pain, or makes her look an ounce "better".

These are sticking points because they make zero sense. And as long as she believes that minimizations about the A, can somehow make the A appear to be less than it was, then you can bet that she still has a way to go in the remorse department.

I didn't believe my FWH either. It took him a year to own up to that. He liked to think that he was about to end it, but his actions showed otherwise. And I will never again believe someone's words over their actions. This has been one of the greatest lessons I have learned from all of this.

Have you considered a polygraph? If she is telling the truth, there is no reason for her to object. If she says ok, them follow through and do it. Often you will get a 'parking lot' confession just before the appointment. If she objects that lends credence to your fear that she is not telling the truth. You can decide what to do from there.

Herkemeyer, it is completely normal to have sticking points after infidelity. I can understand why it is so difficult to believe what your WW is telling you, considering she has seriously lied to you. I am glad you feel she is being remorseful.

First, (TMI) she says she never touched the OM below the waist, even though he did lots to her.

For whatever reason,(could be many) the OM's "style" or preference of sex may be doing/giving rather than receiving. For whatever reason, (could be many) maybe your WW wanted OM to take control or be seduced.

This is just my opinion as well as what I think occurred in my WSO's case: the dynamics of an affair, how OM and OW wanted to be perceived, can play out in the emotional as well as the physical part of the affair.

Or, your WW may be afraid to admit that she did touch OM below the waist. Unfortunately that's the crazy making aspect of getting to the truth, when the B finds it hard to believe information that doesn't jive with us.

I think it is very coincidental.

Your WW may have had the thought and intention to end it many times, and didn't. Just because she had intended to end the A that day doesn't mean it would have ended. I think your WW will see this more clearly and understand the difference as time goes by.

Have you told her straight out that you don't believe her, and that your disbelief is holding up R?

I haven't done this, but I wonder what would happen the next time she says 'I don't remember,' if you ask her to tell you what she does remember. And when she says she's told you everything, you just tell her you need to hear it again. Then maybe comparison between her various versions will increase your insight.

I think it can be very hard for a remorseful WS to remember, but the less she remembers, the less she's accepting responsibility, so it's very important, IMO, to get as much info as possible.

Have you raised your lack of belief issue in MC?

BTW, I believe she could have never touched him below the waist, and I believe she could have convinced herself that both of these statements are true, even if they're false. We can play funny tricks with our minds.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:56 AM, June 9th (Sunday)]

My opinion: she knows. And she remembers. You don't have an affair and suddenly forget all the details.

Now, you can "choose" to bury them, but they are there, and can always be unburied.

The question you need to ask is WHY she claims she doesn't know. My guess is that she did something she thinks you will find very distasteful or even a deal-breaker if you found out.

Part of that, I guess, is to decide what is a deal-breaker for you. Is there something she can claim to have done during the A that will make you end R and move on?

That's the tough one. In some ways, you have allow the WS to feel like the R will be possible with complete honesty, and only complete honesty. And then, you have to decide if, no matter what you hear, you'd rather hear it all (no matter how offensive). If you are ready to go ahead with that mindset, then you really need to let her know that, and stick to it.

You're allowed to react to it, show pain, anguish, anger, etc. You can tell her you feel hurt and betrayed, and even sickened. But it all gets thrown on the A pile and, in a way, opens to road for reconciliation.

For me, the sex and touching wasn't as hurtful as some of the things she admitted she told the AP about me, or told him about how she felt about him. When it is out, the WS is allowed to be ashamed of it, and that's important. They need to be ashamed of what they did and said. But if they are allowed to hide it, never tell it, they never feel shame for it...and that is a bad thing moving forward.