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I kept hearing about it.

Thought I'd felt it.

Knew worse was coming.

I do believe it is here. Hold on my friends it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Damn it. We were doing SO well!!!

Surprise day off and a trip to Run an errand turned into World War 3.

I went wild. I let loose and said all sorts of things. Wow. Didn't know I had it in me.

Sobbed for a good 15 minutes afterward with him just looking at me- crushed, shocked , helpless.

And then I cried more because he did this to us.

I am calm. We have hugged - but are both still numb.

I flayed him. I feel horrible about hurting him- but good about getting it off my chest.

One innocent comment about how he bought me a nice car because i am so great and deserve the best. and I went batshit.

You see- this beautiful car he bought me because he loves me so very much was purchased 2 weeks into his A.

I'm tired. I may write more later- I'm just tired now.

I love him so very much.

This sucks. A lot.

Weird how they just don't make connections sometimes. Am sorry you're having a rough day. (((Hugs))))

((Amazing))

In their strange, bizarro way, I think they did love us, too, and hated themselves for being capable of such cruelty and treachery. There will never be any making real sense of it - not for us, or for them either. I wish I could hate my H - I think it would be easier to know how to allow myself to feel the rage. I love him so very much. It sucks. A lot.

Oh, I know the rage. . . have had 4 or 5 bouts of it since dday. Have thrown a bagel, a book, a Starbucks cappuccino, and a can of sparkling water. At least I am a high-class crazy woman!

I tend to chuck the stuff at his feet. . .and I yell, and say terrible stuff. Terrible. I will go awhile without it happening, and will notice it has been a while, and then BAM!

It is very primal -- the hurt. I assure you I am a pretty even tempered person, and my H is as surprised and shell-shocked as I am when it happens. You may start to see a pattern as to what hits that button. . . I did. It has given me a lot of compassion for people who are more like this all the time - it feels impossible to control. I doubt I've seen my last one, but hopefully some tiny part of my primal brain is learning to recognize when it is coming. I dunno.

((((AWT))))

It is very primal -- the hurt.

EXACTLY!!!!

My rage scared me so much I spent a month reading just on the topic of RAGE.

I thought I had been mad before in my life....fights in highschool, romances gone bad pre-M, etc....nothing, NOTHING prepared me for the RAGE I felt upon the acceptance of what my wife chose to do!!!!

My IC new this was within me....she knew I had to face it. It took 6 sessions to tap into it...then another 2 sessions to assure me I was not bad for feeling the way I did.

I learned RAGE of this nature IS primal.

It has been written adultery is among the worst abuse one human can do to another....and the RAGE you experience afterwards is among the worst a human can exude.

People are in prison over things they did during their RAGE phase of adultery.

So its normal......

(((amazing))) You ARE doing so well!!!! Just because this is normal doesn't mean it isn't scary and shocking as hell!!!!

Bionicgal...you are CLASSY!!! Love your list of ammunition!

God help me....I have been close to hitting my wife. I offer this up to Amazing in hopes she can see that, while this is primal and strong in nature....it can be felt and experienced without giving this emotion full control over your actions.

I hit the gym, took on physical tasks at work that weren't a core part of my job, I raged in the driveway of the vacant farm house where my wife had sex with her OM....all worked to moderate some of the peaks of this phase.

You are strong Amazing.....you will process through this.

We got your back. Post often....even if you make not sense or ramble....keep posting. This will help you release some of this pressure.

The pressure and stress associated with the betrayal that is adultery is too much to keep within you....just have to find healthy ways to release it.

God be with you tonight and always. I will say a specific prayer for you now.

Peace.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 5:07 PM, December 10th (Tuesday)]

((((TAW))))

I can physically feel your pain and just want to say I also am praying for you to find some peace this evening. I hope tomorrow is a much better and brighter day for you.

Totally normal to be raging. Been there. It will get better but it could be awhile

I think your rage is healthy. You are still in it fighting for another day. Thank you for sharing.

((((TAW)))) The anger phase is so hard. I hope your H allows your rage to be heard and validated. It will disapate faster if he does that.

You may start to see a pattern as to what hits that button. . . I did.

Yes bionicgal- I do believe I nailed it. I shared it with him, too. Its anything he says that makes the A seem like it didn't happen.

"I have always loved you"

"You are the only woman ive ever wanted"

"I bought you this car because you are amazing and you deserve a beautiful car to drive" (insert me flipping out because he had been dating her for 2 weeks at the time of the car purchast).

Friends-

I don't get angry. Never really have.

I mean, I get angry- but I am not a "rage" person. I don't yell at people.

My sister used to actually call me "barracuda" because I am so silent when Im angry and then I just cut you with my "rightness." No screaming, no yelling, just me explaining why you are wrong and you admitting it and us moving on.

I hate confrontation unless it is in the form of a debate and done calmly with logic and reason.

There is no logic or reason to how I have been behaving.

The difference between last night and the other little bouts during this process?

Im still pissed.

Usually I snap and then feel tremendously better.

Today- no.

I woke up pissed.

He is being the same as he has all along.

I am just pissed.

I was so angry yesterday I apparently told him to "f*ck off" like three times.

I have NEVER told ANYONE in my life to "F*ck off"- and most certainly not my H. We don't fight like that, I have NEVER called him a name,not out of anger.

Now he has been called dozens of different very creative names (I consider myself to be quite the wordsmith when given the right motivation).

It is disturbing.

We settled down last night and I was waiting for the "its okay again" click that usually happens and then we go back to happy R land for about a week before I snap again.

This morning, laying in bed before work, after being intimate, I was checking the site briefly.

He asked how everyone was (I share some of the stories every now and again).

I mentioned how someone had separated (so sad about this, but the process is what it is).

We started talking about how some people left on D day and then got back together.

He says "I wouldn't have done that."

Me: "If I had caught you in the beginning you might have."

Him- "Please don't tell me what I would have done."

Me: "Im just saying that during the early stages, she was your best friend and your salvation. If shit had hit the fan here, you may have gone directly to her."

Him: "I would not have. You are my wife. I am married to you." (He says this with a tone that indicates how silly of me for even thinking he would move in with her).

BOOM.

Me: OH! So that is your boundary? Me being your wife would keep you from moving in with her? It wasn't enought to keep you from dating her and f*cking her, but enough for you to not move in with her. Im so glad you respected our marriage that much. Thank you (Um...is there a sarcasm font? because I could really use it right now)

How Stupid is he? Seriously? Does he not THINK before these things fly out of his mouth?

On my lovely friends from SI advice...I promptly got out of bed and went and beat the crap out of the heavy bag we just hung in the work out room. That thing is beautiful for venting!

I calmed down enough to go to work and give my kiddos some love and mommy time before they hopped on the bus. I told him I love him before I left, but thats all he got.

I am angry for so many reasons right now.

On the way to work I even considered just consulting with a lawyer, just in case.

This is a scary phase.

I do not like it.

I told him it was coming. I told him I didn't want it to come.

I told him to hear me, and listen to me, but don't stop fighting for me no matter what I say.

This was all before the rage hit.

Now I am so pissed, I don't even care.

I do though.

Whatever. He needs to fix this. I am not holding his hand anymore.

Why should I have to tell him what to do all the time?

Yesterday he told me he is scared of me. Not physically (he is about 185 solid muscle, ex marial arts expert...I am at a whopping 115 of Post A skinny)- but he is still scared of me.

He called me "wolverine". I told him it was more like "honey badger."

Thank you so much for helping me feel better everyone.

I love him. He is trying. I am just not into making him feel better right now.

I hear your pain, and mirror it. I recently entered into this detached rage after three months of sorting it out and talking about reconciling. It scares me, too. It's like she can't say anything right anymore. Almost every statement meant to help has a backhanded way of triggering my anger and heartache. Last night WS said something about feeling like an idiot when she's trying to be close and in distant. And my response was, "tell me how that feels!" I was being sarcastic, of course. It's like I'm trying to punish her without the explicit intent. And I fear it will only make her hopeless and the overwhelming helplessness will make her stop trying to help me heal. Deep down I don't want to lose the relationship, but there is a wall being erected between us in my attempt to heal myself that is founded on this rage. It's like she holds some kind of magic key that will break it down, but isn't giving it to me. But I'm also suspecting that my belief that there's more she isn't telling me is part of it. And if she only truly understood the difficult task if trusting again as a result of the damage she caused, she might tell me the rest--even though she's insistent there's no more. Ugh! It sucks.

Hugs and more hugs to you. This just sucks.

OH I remember those days. I would get so angry I would cut with my words a million cuts until she was a puddle on the floor and just keep right at it. It was triggered by certain phrases and the TT. Man I found a voice to the emotion, I was THAT guy. Never wanted to be put there but cant say I am sorry for a word of it. It was all truth and brutal honesty.

And I fear it will only make her hopeless and the overwhelming helplessness will make her stop trying to help me heal.

Oh this. I feel this completely.

It was all truth and brutal honesty.

And this. Oh boy.

Yah. this sucks.

On a positive note- he has texted a lot apologizing and letting me know that he is hearing me and is NOT going anywhere. He takes full responsibility and knows that he brought this on.

He will listen and do whatever I ask- he wants me to get it out and tell him everything I am feeling, because he needs to hear it.

These are his words from about 5 minutes ago by text.

I must admit. They are helping.

He better be glad he's so damn sexy.

Just kidding- I must love him tremendously.

I know I do.

But this sucks.

I understand how that would trigger rage. For a long time whenever he said 'I love you' I would think 'Oh really? When was that then? Same time as you were loving her ?.....'. And when I thought of all the special events that had happened during the A - kids's bdays, H's 50th, my birthday etc, they were all tainted. And always will be. But the taint has faded, not gone, I just don't think of it too much.

Just an update. Still pissed.

Well, it's more of a simmering annoyance right now.

He is walking on eggshells- he's like a Long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Very apologetic and very scared to speak.

Probably better for everyone right now.

Thanks for helping to keep me grounded everyone.

I'm glad that you have the heavy bag to beat on. I sure as heck could have used one!

You have to let that rage out. You just have to. If you stifle it, try to choke it down, deny it, it grows. It festers and turns in upon itself and becomes an even bigger monster, just wanting for a chance to erupt like a volcano’s lava flow, killing everything in its wake.

I really think that when we hit the rage stage of our anguish, it’s as if all of the hurt, shame, horror, denial, self-blame, and negative emotions that we’ve stuffed down have sickened us so much that we have to purge it, get it all out, to help get ourselves through this sickness. In the beginning of this purging, it is so raw, so primeval, as has already been said, that you can feel it, see it, smell it, taste and touch it. It’s a living presence. It stalks our thoughts, it leaps out upon unsuspecting people, and it is fixated upon our WSs. Rightfully so. I think that it’s a bit of ourselves trying to take back our power, our self-pride, our strength by lashing out. And I think that it’s a healthy response to processing the pain that we’ve encountered.

I hope that your WH can understand that this is something that is important for you to go through, feelings that you need to express. And that he can support you through this expression of pain. I think that this rage, if processed well, can actually lead to new insights and new patterns of thinking for both spouses. In the betrayed spouse, I believe that it can lead to clarity, of exactly what the betrayal was, of what it continues to be, of the deep wounds that are still knitting together, and of what is needed to help put the flames of the rage to rest. For the WS, I think that this is a chance for them to hear, exactly, what their actions have caused, how much hurt they have inflicted, and how much hurt they can still inflict by carelessly chosen words or actions. It can give them clarity about what their choices, their decisions have caused the wounds that still gape open. And it can give them a real chance to prove themselves by stepping up to the plate, accepting the rage, acknowledging their part in causing it, and seeking to make what amends they can by choosing to open their view to that of their BSs.

My rage both frightened me and gave me great comfort. And as I expressed it, and as my FWH accepted, acknowledged, and opened himself to it, my rage lessened and was eventually quieted. And we got to a point where we could express ourselves without having rage be a part of the equation. It had to run its course. But by letting it run the course and not trying to deny it or dam it up, I believe that it was worked through in as little time as was necessary. I hope that your experience is the same. (((hugs)))

Thank you Skan.

I am so torn. Some of my anger has to do with the A- some of it has to do with stuff pre-A- some of it has to do with him breathing.

I'm having a hard time focusing. He is a mess. Hardly talking, hang dog expression, afraid to speak.

I dot even know what I want from him right now. I don't want him to go away, but he makes me angry when he is near me.

This is so very different than the past 4 months.

Do I spew everything? He is really taking the beatings.

And honestly, I am trying to take ownership of some of our pre A stuff, but... I am havin a really fuckin hard time figuring out what I did wrong- because I think I did a pretty good job pre A.

We've talked about issues pre A and I have owned mine.

He is working on owning his- but the big problem is that there are starting to be quite a lot.

He has always been a little selfish. And as we talk about pre A Stuff, I am really realizing how I played into it and allowed him to be that way. And he keeps saying, "it sounds like you were miserable. Why did you stay?"

I don't remember being miserable. I remember being happy. But I think looking back on it through the A filter, I am seeing how out of my way I went to make sure he was happy.

And he never even realized it. He was so selfish that he just thought that was how a relationship should be. Morning til nigh I thought of him first. Always. Make things easier for him. Make sure he goes to bed happy. Make sure he goes to work happy. Make sure I call him during the day, be nice to his mom, let him go out with friends while I was home, finish the housework while he was sleeping or at work so I could spend free time with him, doing ALL of the work in the house because he worked so hard (forget that I worked too, but you know, my jobs were easy.. Not physical labor, just "work")..

The list goes on and on.

I think I just realized something.

I was happy. We were happy. I was happy todo all of those things for him because I loved him and wanted to make him happy. Making him happy made me happy- I loved being the mom and the wife. I was so very happy.

Why is it different now? Because he showed me that all of those years did not matter.

That why he looks like such an asshole now.

Because he shit on all of that.

If he never cheated, if we just talked about our M, I would have said I was so happy. Down times yes- but making sure he was happy meant that he in turn would do things to make me hapoy.

At the very least, doing all I those things for him would let him know how much I loved him. That's why I did them.

I didn't leave because I wasn't unhappy.

I am unhappy with his actions (pre A) now because he has thrown them back in my face with his A.

So- yes- it is okay that I am pissed about stuff pre A.

I never would have been had he not had the A.

But he did.

So all of my dedication and love over fifteen years was just rendered useless.

I nearly wasted fifteen years of my life.

I say nearly because I have two amazing children.

I am angry because he took all of my love- the only love I've ever given- and shit right on it.

I do not like him as a person right now.

I mean, right now he is remorseful and trying and working.

And I do aporeciate his efforts.

The emotions that I have for him are pity and contempt.

I have no idea what I need from him right now.

But this silent scared to speak poor me I'm such a bad person crap is getting on my nerves.

Someone please help me.

Help me have more compassion.

Help me remember, really remember, why I am in R.

I know I wanted to be here. Just days ago I felt real love for him. And joy that he was near me.

Where did that go?

I know how you are feeling. I'm always afraid that I'm hitting the Plain of Lethal Flatness when this happens to me. The rage and anger are so intense then nothing....................

and I get afraid that this is it. It's over. I'm done. And my WS walks on egg shells as well. Is almost timid. This man who cheated on me so well. Lied to me so well. Duped me so well. Thought nothing of coming home one day and saying "Goodbye" and not even telling me the truth that day. When I think about these things I get so friggin angry that I just want to scream and scream and scream. Right now that lousy WS is downstairs making me a coffee while I seethe up here in our computer room trying to understand the why's etc. I think I am a little ahead of you with this R stuff so I am only telling you how it works for me. I feel it - I yell and scream and cry and my WS listens, holds me and apologizes for it over and over and then I feel nothing............. So far, every time, the feeling of love returns. I just hope it will every time. The longest I've gone it about 7-8 days. Be patient. I'm sure those loving feelings will return. But, I think you need to go through the anger to get to the next phase - whatever that is. (((((HUGS)))))

[This message edited by devasted30 at 11:09 AM, December 12th (Thursday)]

Can I join you amazingwondertwin???

I am not good with anger, I confuse it with other feelings such as anxiety and depression, even hypomania.

Saw my therapist today and everything I said she sat back and 'you're angry' and me being me said 'yes, but - yes, but....'

BUT she is right, I am fecking furious!!!!!!!!!!

Going to see if I can dig out ds kid sized punch bag and see how long it takes to knock the stuffing out of it!

I mean HOW STUPID can they be???

We all know that compliments and a bit of flirting feels nice but we have the mental filter in place to say 'thanks but no thanks' loooooooong before anything inappropriate is said or done, so why the F**k couldn't they.

Eating lead paint face here from H - love that one.

H's response

1) I was acting like a kid

2) She cheered me up

3) she made me feel special

4)she made me feel wanted

5) I was playing a game and it got out of hand

6) I only ever loved you

7) I was unhappy but didn't want to leave you so thought I would have some fun

AAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH

What are you? 40 (41 tomorrow hope I can be nice for one day!) or 14???

His reply, 'well I was acting like I was 14 and kind of felt that way too'

Deep breaths

Right so here we are Amazing, two mums who love our families, who put our partners first and ignore their selfish little ways. We look after them, care for them and yes - maybe even mummy them a bit.

How do they thank us? By having a sexual bloody tantrum!

Things aren't going the way they want them too and someone comes along telling them how great they are and feeding them a load of crap about how they could do better and BAM there little heads are turned.

Then when it all goes tits up they come running back to the women who cared most about them in the first flaming place, with their tails between their legs declaring but I love you!

OOOOOH I could really get on a rant here but think I have vented enough.

You take care there twin, we are at similar stages but I am always so blown away by how together you are. You're doing great.

I need to wind my neck in lol.

Oh Olwen- you always are right on with your comments and the way you express yourself.

I am fecking furious!!!!!!!!!!

I love this. It appeals to my inner Whovian (sorry, BBC America is my obsession lately).

Sorry- tangent!

Yes- come hit my punching bag anytime. I call him Husband.

He tried texting and then calling. I tried to be cordial. Tried to be compassionate.

Sent him the "transfer of vigilance" post from the wayward side (I thought it was very helpful for explaining what I was feeling this week).

His response?

"Im sorry. Ill try harder."

What the EFF?!?!? Seriously?

I texted him back something about not trying to tell him he needs to work harder, just trying to help. He doesnt research or read at all now. Unless I tell him too.

He called. We got into it. I screamed at him. Im at work. This is so inappropriate. I tried to tell him we cant do this now, he says we can't wait until later when it will explode.

Um...honey? Its done exploded.

I told him he needed to either believe that I loved him (based on the last fifteen years and the fact that I stayed)or not. I am tired of his self esteem issues getting in our way.

ANYWAY-

I wanted to say, in response to your posts recently (sorry I couldn't respond, I was going crazy on my own and not able to put any words together).

I felt the same frustration with his answers.

I just wanted him to admit that he like her, was attracted to her, felt the excitement, wanted to have sex with her, enjoyed being her boyfriend, etc etc. ADMIT IT!

Once he did, once he came clean and told me about what their relationship (mainly EA with 2 occasions of sex) was really like, I was able to move on.

It was him admitting that he fell for someone else that moved us forward.

I knew he had.

I remember when you posted awhile back about how you felt that based on who he was - you completely believed him.

I know a few of us were supporting you but offering words of caution. I felt bad because afterward I felt like I tried to pop your bubble of happy.

I wanted to reach out and let you know that the only reason I was so "negative" and "cautiony" was because my little bubble had just been popped.

I am so sorry you are in this position right now. I think of you often (probably because we are so close in our process, and I think youre funny ).

He is supposed to call again at lunch. Why? I don't know. Maybe he is a glutton for punishment. I tried not to yell at him.

It didn't work.

I do not like this stage.

I am hurting him.

I am hurting us.

Why can't I stop this?