SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Is he seriously fucking with me or am I just a paranoid basket case from all the years of mind fucking???

He has never given two shits about his kids now he calls/texts them constantly asking them to do shit with him. Three of them mostly decline but DS16 goes with him often. And its random out of the blue shit and then acts weird when he gets home. Sometimes he'll be cranky or irritable other times he seems agitaded and asks me strange questions (like he's fishing). Then he'll often get clingy (a bit odd to me considering his age).

STBX had asked to pick up the kids on Christmas Eve around 3-4 pm to eat at SILs around 5 and I asked for them to be home around 8ish - we had already had plans for the holiday as he made no request for time w/them until just a few days prior so I rearranged my Eve plans... he agreed then later asked if he could pick them up earlier and I said no I'd already rearranged for him and he was getting pretty much the entire evening on Christmas Eve. Then awhile later he asked if he could have them for awhile on Christmas day too - he knew we had plans to spend the day w/ my entire extended family at my bros... I simply told him we'd see what time we got home (he never did ask again or check when we got home that night) anyhooo - so Christmas Eve morning my dd11 tells me her dad was texting her asking if she wanted to go to church w/him then my boys gold me the same thing. I said really and what time? They told me he said at 2. He has never taken them to church a day in their lives. He is nonpracticing in his religion and any and all religious education has taken place in my church. First I asked my kids if they wanted to go to church - our church actually has a beautiful midnight service we've attended in the past - and they all said no. I then simply said you will not be going to church w/your dad today he's picking u up at 3 to go to aunts and if you want to go to church please let me know I'll take you anytime.

I sent him a text saying please don't play games w/the kids. He responded what games what are u talking about. I said church? 2pm? You've never taken them to church ever, you asked to pick them up around 3_4 and I agreed you are getting them the entire evening already plus you went behind my back. This is gameplaying/manipulation and its harmful to the kids. I do not do this to you please don't do it to me. He texted back saying he was sorry and he'd pick them up at 3. Kids went had a good time and were home by 8.

Christmas day - he called ds16 and I happened to be sitting right next to him on the couch and could hear entire conversation ... he rambled on about getting locked out of his house then says so if you have a bad day today just remember this happened to me this morning. WTF? WHY would DS have a bad day??

Now tonight I get a text asking me if he can have kids Tuesday night. We always get a hotel room on nye and planned again this year-round kids know so I'm sure they informed him. I said have plans but you can have them Wednesday if you'd like. He texted back ok thank you. Am I paranoid or is he still playing games??

Then I sent him a text simply saying please stop playing games w/the kids. He replied what games shat are u talking about.

Oops please disregard last paragraph as typing on phone

Sounds like you need to set up a schedule for visitation so you don't have to deal with STBXH's last minute requests. Seriously sucks to have to constantly interact with them about visiting the kids. You shouldn't have to change plans you've already made.

Not sure where you are in the D process. Setting up a 'Parenting Plan' was one of the first things we did. I also included a clause that once a child was 14, they could choose whether or not to participate in visits. That way STBXH can show for pickup at X o'clock on the 23rd, and whichever kids are willing go visit. If you have a set schedule, it's harder for him to pull the "Oh poor me, I'm not allowed to see you" card.

It'll be interesting to see how long your STBXH stays interested in visiting the kids when he no longer gets the pleasure of inconveniencing you.

I've been putting up with the same kind of game playing since we separated. It never ends. Going behind my back, wanting to switch times, saying bizarre stuff to the kids. It never ends.

I am super terrified he is trying to convince any (or all) to live with him. He's only ever had twins16 over there but they've told me how fantastic his house is - all the new shit he's bought blah blah blah. I've been told in the past that because of my boys' ages they can choose???? No way in hell would I let this happen if I can do anything about it. He has NEVER been a primary caregiver. Has always worked 7 days a week including holidays etc. In 17 years he's taken them to the dentist 1x and been to Dr. visits probably less than half a dozen times (for all 4 combined). Teacher conferences he attended sporadicly at best over the years. Never bought clothing groceries school supplies - well y'all get my point. He also abandoned them for 2 months (albeit 9 years ago) and has been verbally and emotionally abusive to them.

But still - he scares me. He is such a master manipulator. He is busy trying to convince everyone what a changed man he is. Claims to have quit drinking, claims to be attending AA... I know this to be horseshit (reliable sources) but it still has me worried about what game he's playing - or trying to play. He's also in IC but my T has told me he's confident the pos is completely blowing

smoke up hus T's ass.

I haven't talked to my L in a couple of weeks due to holidays etc. but have all my financials etc. ready to drop off so he can countersue the pos for divorce. So far I have put zero limits on visitation because a. There really is no custody order in place (he willingly left the home when I gave him the boot in August after dd#25million) b. He really never attempted to see them much and c. They don't really care to spend much time w/him

I also feel like I should add he was SUPER ANGRY w/me for not giving in and letting him back in the house this time. FalseR until November when I stuck to my boundaries for the first time in 20 years. He turned on me on a dime. (He has a Jekyll / Hyde persona)

Now he's been playing this Mr. Cool thing w/ a bit of swagger so I know he's up to something but RAGES at me when he's caught in a lie again - which happens rarely now because I am mostly NC and also don't really give a damn about him anymore. (That felt good to say - and really mean :))

Holy shit I need to be DIVORCED from this pos so I can quit worrying about some of this shit!!!

I have several thoughts about this Kjac. I believe he is messing with you and pushing all your buttons because he can. You would not let him back in the house so what is the next step, turn the kids against you. At their ages and given they could choose who to live with, he is trying to be the fun dad, the no rules parent, to entice them to his side. Let's think about what 16-17 year old would not want to live in a no rules environment? That is what he is offering them a life with no boundaries, rules, restrictions.

Secondly, he knows that by doing what he is doing keeps you engaged with him on a level. Do you see what he is doing? Setting a plan and then using the kids to change the plan ever so slightly to keep you off balance, set you off, make you feel paranoid, he is an artist at it. He is an ASS!

What would I do? Have a family meeting with the kids. Explain what is happening. Tell them how important it is that they learn that when they make plans, commitments, agreements, they abide by the agreement. As they are close to adulthood it is a trait that will serve them well in relationships, employment etc. start teaching them subtly that the way ASS is acting is not the way mature adults act toward each other. Let them see him for the fuckup he is. They will get to choose but if you remove him from the equation by setting a definite plan and sticking to it and letting the kiddos know the plan and WHY you are sticking to it as a big life lesson, it will backfire for him. You are having way too much contact with him under the guise of the kids. Just my 2 cents, TIOLI (take it or leave it)

I ditto Ruby44...she nailed it for exactly what he is doing.

I'm not sure he's playing games trying to get them to live with him. I mean, you said he's already filed papers...what did he ask for custody in the papers? Since you didn't mention it, I'm betting it wasn't that he wants sole custody.

Honestly? I'm betting, as far as the holidays have gone, that he's just clueless. He's going along, living his life, doing what WH's do. Then, oh yeah, 2 days from now is Christmas...ok, OW can't spend it with me, so I'll get the kids! Oh...you made plans?!? Guess I can't then. Ok, let's see what parties I can go to NYE!!!! Yeah yeah....oh...no parties? Bummer. I know! I'll spend it with the kids!! I know she always takes them to a hotel, but....oh...you already booked the hotel? You didn't wait until the day before to see if I might want to do something? That sucks....

He's clueless. He's getting a surprise right now that the world hasn't just stopped and waiting for him to say what he wants before making plans. He's just getting a lesson on how this all works.

So, what did his papers say about custody? What do your papers plan on saying in return? Are they the same or even close? If they are, I would start following it NOW. WH, you can see them Tuesdays and EOW. Or whatever. As the kids are older and have cells, you can talk to them as they see fit.

I would just have a quick conversation with him (after NYE) that the kids need structure, and you deserve to know in advance if things are going to change. Here's the schedule....if you want them for something special at another time, no problem, but I need to know in advance, not the day before, because I need to plan my life, and the kids need to be able to plan theirs.

I'm betting he's just an idiot since you don't say he's bucking for full custody or anything.

My XH pulled that shite once the kids were older and he and NW/ow moved back to the area. In fact NW sent me an email that they were going to have the kids choose to live with them!

Sit your kids down, ask them their goals and dreams and how do they see themselves working toward achieving hose dreams and goals. Have them make a plan toward their future.

Keep this in mind when he asks them to choose. My XH asked my kids to choose. I told them that they needed to be in the best possible position to achieve the future they wanted, if living at his house would help them more, I would support their decision to move. The lack of rules at his house isn't going to help them further down the road. As adults they will have to learn to live with rules, my house rules are just preparing them for that future.

He offered all 4 of them to live with him full time -no takers. :)

Ok this is what his papers say concerning custody : plaintiff prays the court for judgement as follows: for a determination of primary residential responsibility of the minor children and a parenting time schedule in accordance with the best interests of the child guidelines and the laws of the state

That the court establish a reasonable child support obligation.pursuant to and consistent with the file support guidelines ...based on the average net income of the obligor ...

That the parties share jointly the legal decision making responsibilities, parental rights, and duties for the minor children...

My L plans to countersue for D and am planning to file for sole physical custody...

So far any discussion I've had w/kids concerning their future living situation is just assuming they'll live with me... for example we're likely going to be moving this summer into a house my dad owns in town and they've planned who gets what room already etc. I have not discussed w them that living w him is an option and unless he's telling them it is it would not occur to them as he has NEVER taken care of them.

I've not told twins16 what happened - simply told them he wouldn't be living here any more and if they have any questions they can ask/tell me anything and I will always tell them the truth. They were like ok whatever... dd11 was IN THE CAR WITH ME on DD (back in August) when he was caught w/ow. She has struggled the most and doesn't want to have much to do with him. I gave ds17 the same speech as the twins but he did ask me "I want to know what happened " - I took a deep breath and said I'll tell you but not details as he's still your dad and I'm going to try really hard not to bash him... I then said well your dad has a problem w/infidelity ... to which my son said "again?" And I said yes - we briefly discussed some of his memories from earlier times :'(

My oldest and youngest have started IC and twins do mid January but I really really want to sit down and talk with my kids. We used to be so close but it feels like there's a distance right now as we seem to all be reluctant to talk about the elephant in the room. I don't know how to address this w/out coming off as bashing nor do I want the whole parental alienation thing to come back on me. And that is honestly nit what I want to do. I truly believe in the end he will show them what an ass he really is - he certainly doesn't need my assistance. I also do not want to contribute to my kids pain. But dammit I do want an honest open relationship with them and what's going on is obviously huge in our lives.

Finally, as for parenting styles STBX was actually the stricter parent - when he was around - as he has serious control issues and anger issues. I give my teens quite a bit of freedom and we talk about it all the time - I require mutual respect (they abide by curfews and if something happens where they'll be late a phone call is just common courtesy), I need to know where they are/who their with, we all make mistakes so when they do I require them to "own" it and make amends when possible. I have told them they are good kids and right now they've shown me they can make good choices - if that changes I AM the mom and will not hesitate to limit their freedom. They have, of course, tested me a few times but were quick go get back on track when they realized I was serious.

Any and all advice is welcome. Those of you who've btdt please let me know what you think!!!

NPD-x hates me more than he loves the kids and has completely alienated me from my oldest DD18. She actively acts like she hates me now. She does very destructive things, like steal from me. Her dad tells her I am an unreasonable bitch for requiring restitution, and that I am stealing all his money.....see what a bitch I am? Nothing I say or do, such as showing hr tax returns has any effect on the brainwashing job he has done to her.

It can get so ugly.....in my gut I feel she will be back to me one day, but at what cost to her in the meantime?

Have you thought about a family counselor that has experience with extremely manipulative addict types? That person could help you and the kid have discussions about this as well as be a third party professional witness that can prove you were acting in the kids' best interest.

@ruby44 - I totally agree w/ everything u said. I just don't know how to stop letting him mess with me. I'm really trying and I know it takes time and distance. NC NC NC

@c - I really like ur idea of a family therapist w/someone who specializes in this kind of thing. My IC is a great Guy but frankly he is shocked by many of the things I've told him about STBX. I did some research awhile back and found a place that specializes in dealing w/victims of abuse ... I'm thinking after the new year I will give them a call. I know I can't take this any more and I just don't know hoe to deal. With some distance already I feel so damaged and like I'm just floundering?? Does that make sense?? I do NOT want him to be able to push my buttons any more. I'm so very tired of letting him control my emotions and moods.

Call your local domestic violence shelter-ask them for the names of therapists who deal with victims of abuse for you and your kids. They may even have therapy groups for all of you that you can utilize.

They may also be able to help with education regarding PAS and ways that abusers use the legal system to inflict pain to former families.

Hugs,

K