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So we all understand the Madonna-Whore complex, where people have As to do things with the OW they would never do with their "clean" wife, etc.

Is there any solid psychological literature on the female version of it? I've only found something called "Jesus/Gigolo complex" but on a simple website and not on a real study or on anything serious. Is it really this new that this happens? Doubt it.

I ask because in her mind I might have been the Madonna (she was my first, we married and had kids, I was always faithful, gave up my friends to keep her happy in the M, etc), and OM might have been the Whore.

And by all measures besides physical strength, I am the better person by a huge margin - even going as far as her angry because she'd "never go to him long term because he was the shack, and I was the mansion"... Not that the guy is average. It's that by all objective measures, this guy should be paying for sex and not getting any by anyone else. Somehow he still manages to make it happen (I hear he has cheated on my WW already and might have been all along).

"They always affair down", right? Well it's true to an extreme degree in this case. Not tooting my own horn, my self-esteem is hurt for sure, but it's so obvious in this case I would find it downright funny if it was happening to someone else.

I don't know how far she's taken it in deviance with OM (eventually, after the A, she started bringing some of the "new tricks" back to the M, and I complied with some and didn't care much for others).

Because of the extra stigma on a woman to do this (let's face it, society assumes men will be the dogs), I would assume that extra dynamics are at play that make a lot of what I would read about the M/W complex suspect.

I'd like to educate myself on it. Not that it matters that much as we're going to D, but it may help me place a sort of diagnosis to her issues to move on (she doesn't want to go to therapy and hates all therapists, particularly after her MC fell through, I plan on pushing for this during child custody hearings as I think the man she's seeing shouldn't be around my kids, and she doesn't seem to get it in her foggy state).

Anyway, if anyone has any info on it, I'd appreciate it.

Hey I think your on to something. As a female I can say for instance in high school, always liked the bad boys, geez even Jr high. They were exciting, risky, cool...all that stuff that attracted me. If a girl's smart, they don't marry the bad boy. They marry the guy that was home doing his homework on Friday night. This is the guy you should have your babies with, the guy that can support his family. Still though you think about the exciting times with the dangerous one.

Basically, you want the stable steady Eddie that works and is predictable but still has a sparkle in her eye for the other.

So many movies have this same subject.

The wife is sleeping with the stable boy or some scenario like that.

I think there is a complex but maybe a diff name for it

I don't know what the term for it would be but I've witnessed it and heard about it much of my life. The problem is women employ that mindset withhold part of themselves from the Good Man. Women who think this way see it as an either/or choice.

My dad told me story that I found really disturbing. A friend of my dad's had a woman come on to him and give him a bj pretty much out of the blue. Afterwards she propositioned this guy about having a PA and wanted to do all kinds of wild and kinky stuff. The guy (who apparently didn't feel any guilt about her being married) asked if she ever thought of having with her BH. She laughed at the idea. It is a strange compartmentalization where some people have to fit into certain roles. I think this is reflection of their view of themselves. The cannot face all of the aspects of themselves so the try to put up a front. To be different things to different people. So the wilder, riskier part of them cannot be shared with the stable part of their life.

My stbx had a similar mindset and even told me so. She could be "herself" with OM but had to put up these walls with me. I still don't get it but it's no longer my problem to ponder.

but it may help me place a sort of diagnosis to her issues to move on (she doesn't want to go to therapy and hates all therapists, particularly after her MC fell through, I plan on pushing for this during child custody hearings as I think the man she's seeing shouldn't be around my kids, and she doesn't seem to get it in her foggy state).

You can't force your WW to get help. Also investing too much time in figuring out what is wrong with them will drive YOU crazy. Even if you figure it out there isn't anything you can do to force her to resolve her issues. I spent way to much time focusing on what was wrong with my stbxww. FOO issues-check, issues with death and loss-check, abandonment issues from her youth-check, being adopted-check, being assaulted in the past-check...I could go on and while the issue are different everyone has something in their past that drives their behavior. It's how you identify and address those issues that's important.

Instead of focusing on your WW I would suggest you do what I did. I couldn't fix WW so I chose to focus on the things I wanted to change about myself. I did not have a long list of things in my past but I did have some work to do since my "picker" was obviously broken. I set about working on me instead of wasting time trying to change someone that was resistant to change.

Also you can't really control who your WW brings around your kids, no more than she can control who you bring around them. If she is a bad influence on them then you have to counteract that when they are with you. It's pretty much all you can do until they are of age and can decide who they want to stay with. Just my 2 cents.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 1:47 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday)]

GP

MY W did what she did because she was too depressed to think clearly and was punishing herself because she believed on some level she deserved to suffer. She felt guilty being happy, if that makes sense. (It took me awhile too).

I think a lot of people who grew up in dyfunctional environments just don't know how to handle functional ones. So they try to turn the function into dysfunction. They hate themselves and expect everyone else to too. So when someone loves them they subconsciously sabotage their life to create dysfunction with which they have a lot of experience.

It boils down to control or the perception of control.

With my FOOs I get that to an extent.

As far as M/W thing. I think it is just selfishness. They can't find everything in one person so they try to mix and match. Unhealthy does not even begin to describe it.

In my younger days I had girlfriends who were playthings and those that my parents approved of. (never dated them at the same time). It all depended on where I was at in life and what need I was trying to fill.

My ex fiancee (not my W) was the type of woman that I could envision living with and gave me enough dysfunction that I felt comfortable in that sick twisted kind of way. She was bi-polar and I believe my mother was too (never diagnosed), Paging Dr. Freud ! Honestly I think my family liked her better than I did. She "fit" in my life. I was creating a life I thought I should lead, not the life I actually wanted.

Maybe the same thing going on in your W life. She just is willing to look inward because she is afraid of what she will find. It is easier to look outside.

Based on what I've found/read I feel like this applies to my WW.

I think a lot of people who grew up in dyfunctional environments just don't know how to handle functional ones. So they try to turn the function into dysfunction. They hate themselves and expect everyone else to too. So when someone loves them they subconsciously sabotage their life to create dysfunction with which they have a lot of experience.

It boils down to control or the perception of control.

My WW often feels she has no voice, no control in any situation with her family or with me. Sometimes, even just trying to determine where to go for dinner she says "we are in a power struggle."

With OM (at least via text) she was assertive, confident and brazen. She never tried any of that with me.

Sorry, my fWH was the boy who stayed home doing his homework, reading books, and playing d&d (and building his porn addiction and low self esteem). He had a great job, no criminal record, never used drugs... I always went for nerds... And always got burned. I was either the girl who convinced him he could probably get a hotter girl, and got dumped, or the girl they cheated on, because they couldn't resist ego kibbles.

I don't really like the term "madonna-whore" complex. It's not quite accurate and, you're right, doesn't have a female equivalent. The reality is that there are many people of both genders that struggle being sexual intimate as well as emotionally intimate with their partner. The more emotionally intimate they become, the less they can be sexually intimate (and vice-versa). It's common among survivors of abuse, sex addicts, NPDs, etc.