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My BS and I often talk about our mutual dislike for my FAP. I was wondering if it was normal for FWS's to do a complete 180 on their feelings about their AP like I have.

My AP is a manipulative, conniving piece of dog crap. He does nothing that doesn't somehow benefit him. As long as I've known him, and looking back on his actions, he has never done a single thing to help someone simply to be a good person. He'll only aid someone if he can use it to pressure them for something later. When I was engaged in my A with him, I didn't see these things. Once I broke off the A and took a step back, I was shocked and disgusted that I had ever thought he was a good person.

He is very emotionally manipulative, and he is always on the lookout for women to prey on. After I ended the A, I noticed just how many women he approached at work. Each of them was going through some kind of crisis, and he always stepped in to play the hero. The one I am most disgusted to have witnessed was him "comforting" a woman who was crying over finding out she'd had another miscarriage. A miscarriage! He was using the death of her unborn child to try and get in her pants. It was sickening listening to him say "Oh, don't worry. You're a strong, beautiful person, and you'll get through this. I'll always be here for you. Tell you what, why don't you come to my place after work? I'll make dinner, and we can talk about this." All the while he's slowly rubbing her back and shoulders.

I have never wanted to murder a person as much as I did in that moment. I wanted to drag him out of his chair and shove him down the stairs. My BS says he sometimes has dreams of killing him in the parking lot. Obviously, neither of us is going to act on these desires, but I want to know if anyone feels such utter loathing for their FAPs?

My BS is afraid that I am going to try and contact FAP again in the future. I keep assuring him that I'm not, because I have absolutely no desire to ever see him again. BS is skeptical. I guess it's because he's finding it hard to believe that I could go from being emotionally involved with someone to outright hating them. It didn't happen overnight, the feelings of hatred came over the course of 2 years, but they're unbreakable. They were compounded about 2 weeks ago, when a friend contacted me let me know that "FAP had heard about what was going on between me and my H, and he wanted her to tell me that he was always there for me and would be willing to listen." It was hard not to vomit. Even now, even after the NC letter and the full confession to his BS, he thinks I'll come back to him. What scum.

[This message edited by Neveragain1221 at 12:43 PM, February 7th (Friday)]

Neveragain1221 - I was wondering if it was normal for FWS's to do a complete 180 on their feelings about their AP like I have.

Its hard to tell how common this phenomena is and the cause behind it.

I sometimes am quite suspicious at reading how fast some WS's go from liking the AP enough to have sex with to spewing out vitriolic words of hatred in the next week. It makes me wonder how often that behavior is prompted not by real change in feelings but merely as a reactive stance to placate their BS.

However, I know its very hard for us to make the determination of intent and motive and so, more often than not, I think that we take statements about hating the AP at face value unless or until other statements show contrary.

From my point of view, I don't hate my AP. How could I? She wasn't any more a lying, cheating piece of shit than I was. Her behavior is no more repulsive and reprehensible than mine was. Do I hate myself? No. I consider my actions to be horrible but I don't hate myself as a being. So why should I hate her?

As its been said before, emotional indifference is what we should be striving for. Holding hate for someone is still an investment of emotions and thoughts. Let the AP go.

By the way, if your friend is passing on messages to you about your FAP, then that friend should be dumped as her behaviors are not that of a FOM. How can she be helping you create indifference if she is busy passing on gossip and updates?

HUFI

Clarrissa - Yes, I have memories of the AP. How can I not? Are they fond ones? That's a definite no. I don't hate him though but I don't like him either. I've reached indifference. I really truly don't care about him.

I've been thinking about this one and I can honestly say, no, I don't hate him. I don't particularly like him, but I don't hate him. The reality is that I don't care enough about him to hate him. Like you, after the affair ended, I was able to see him for who he really was and part of that was an incredibly selfish person. But the reality of it is that so was I. While it was wrong of him to pursue a married woman, it was wrong of me to let him think that was okay when I could've put an end it right away by telling him it was inappropriate.

He wasn't all good like I saw him during the affair but he's not all bad either. To hate him, to demonize him for doing what he did, I'd have to hate myself and demonize myself as well. I did awful things. I'm sure if he were telling someone about me, I'd come off as the most selfish horrible person on the planet. As it is, I'm just glad to have him out of my life. I have no desire to speak to or see him again. The one issue I do have with him is that it feels like he had no consequences for his decisions. While I'm grateful that he was single so that I don't have to add hurting someone else's marriage to the list of wrongs I committed, it feels unfair that I'm living with consequences and more unfair that my BH is, while he's just moved on with his life to the next girl. But in the end, I guess it doesn't matter. I'll focus on my life and my marriage and what happens to him doesn't concern me.

Comments removed due to the dreaded duplicate post problem!

[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 2:36 PM, February 7th (Friday)]

Nope. I pity him.

He was manipulative, abusive, aggressive, threatening and nasty. But that's because he's even more damaged than me.

I spent a good few months hating him when I was trying to end the A and he wouldn't take no for an answer. I hated him because he made me fear for my safety and my sanity.

But once I confessed the affair to my BH I saw the OM for what he really was, a very broken and very damaged man.

I don't miss him, I don't think about him. He has, in terms of my A, become an inanimate object. Over the last month or so I have developed indifference.

I hope I can get to that indifference stage. Right now, any time my thoughts wander to him, I experience stomach-churning revulsion and anger. I wish I had listened to my BH in the past when he said he didn't like AP. And weirdly, I wish I had listened to my dog, who was always afraid of AP and didn't like it when he came around.

I hated OM 2 because he didn't return my affection.

Then later I hated him when I realized my lurve for him was bullcrap and I was only angry at me.

It is easier to hate the AP than to hate our own foolishness.

Naw. Indifferent. He's a non factor at this point.

Yes. 2 of them I hate. Well... actually I believe I hate the shame and disgust and humiliation I feel when I think about them. Both were people I thought were friends. HA! Both recognized that I was broken and exploited that. Actually as I type this I realize that's true for all of them... But the two I hate the most are... truly sick individuals. One of them is a classic narcissist - no regard, no care for how he might hurt someone. I was dumb and thought that a "friendship" meant I was different. Not at all. Not at all. The reality of him being an AP makes me feel ill. I told him as much in my NC letter. I don't know if my BH hears me when I express my current feelings... I don't know if it helps or makes it worse.

The other one I hate... I'll put it this way. When I finished describing the day and the events leading up to sex, my BH was angry. He was angry because I stated that intellectually, when I disconnect from my feelings, I know I had an opportunity to say no, but on the day as it was happening I did not believe that saying no was an option. So yes, I hate him too. He re-victimized me, or at least tapped into the part of me that freezes when I sense danger. The part of me that held perfectly still while being molested as a child. F him for reaching that part of me. He's total dirt.

Do I like the others? Hell no! Pity? Maybe, but only one, my EAOM. I wish like hell I could anonymously send him and his wife "Not Just Friends." They need it, badly. But I actually think that wish is my desire to make amends to his wife... She seems like a really nice person, loyal, and loving, he's an idiot.

The OM whose BS hired a private investigator? I can recognize the weakness, vanity, and arrogance I must have felt. What I mean by that is: she confronted him with a letter I wrote her admitting to sending him about 100 photos and texting and sex, and he denied it. Hypocritical of me to find him a weakling? Yes and no. I'm at least making headway on confronting my actions. Am I any better? No, I've done terrible things. I've broken my BH so that he almost matches my brokenness. The OM is so very arrogant an entitled. I don't respect him and I don't admire him. I don't miss him. I wish for distance because I no longer want to be those things myself. Actually that goes for the one whose BS responded to me with questions. He too is just this way. What a bastard.

The last OM? He's the one my BH discovered the awful truth about me through. I just feel sorry for him. Whether I should believe a word he told me about his life or not, I feel sorry for him. I could not and should not have tried to offer him what he was looking for. He's bound to continue making poor choices because he has not healed himself from past wounds. That's sad. But I no longer have any feelings of wishing I could be anything to or for him. He is not my future, and never should have been part of my past.

Sorry for the lengthy response.

[This message edited by Wayflost at 2:24 AM, February 8th (Saturday)]

Hate requires effort. Lots of it. It is an action verb. It's allowing the AP space in your head. It's allowing the AP access to your feelings.

When I was in my 20's, I HATED my father. In fairness, he probably deserved my hate but I was an extremely unhappy. Hating him didn't make me feel better. It didn't fix any of my issues. I finally went to IC and found indifference.

He recently passed away and you know what I felt...Nothing and that was one of the most rewarding moments of my life. I didn't feel sad, I didn't feel like pissing on his grave...I felt nothing.

One of them is a classic narcissist - no regard, no care for how he might hurt someone. I was dumb and thought that a "friendship" meant I was different.

and

I know I had an opportunity to say no, but on the day as it was happening I did not believe that saying no was an option.

Both of those perfectly describe my AP. Like I said in my first post, he does nothing that doesn't benefit himself. His attitude towards life is that he is several steps above the rest of us, and he is graciously lowering himself to our level when he interacts with us peasants. But I didn't see that part of him when I began my A, all I saw was a supremely confident, handsome man who thought I was special enough to want to be around me.

He knew I had extreme body image issues. I was always overweight as a child, and my mother was right there to call me a "fatass" and tell me I "looked like a pregnant whale" when she bought me new clothes. When I started the job that gave me both my H and my AP, I was 230lbs. I worked hard and lost most of the weight, but I still had severe image issues. AP pounced all over that, and used it and my other self-esteem issues to manipulate and trap me. I still could have said no to the A, but my AP made it known that, in no uncertain terms, if I didn't put out he'd withdraw his friendship. I was too scared to let go of the friendship to say no, and he knew I would be.

Also, this:

she confronted him with a letter I wrote her admitting to sending him about 100 photos and texting and sex, and he denied it.

It's not exactly the same, but I wrote my AP's BW a letter telling about all the times we were together, how often, where it happened. I also told her, by name, all the other girls I knew about him being with after I broke it off with him. I heard through my former best friend that APs BW had confronted him, and he's lying his ass off and saying I'm just a crazy bitch who wants to hurt him. What a coward.

WS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:51 PM, February 8th (Saturday)]

Yes I do, but as time has passed the hatred has evolved. At first I had a lot of anger and even felt hurt that he had lied to his BW about us and the A. I am still angry about it, but have begun to realize as much as I hate him, I think I hate myself more for being involved in an A and for my actions during it.

More than anything I pity him and recognize what an unhappy,insecure,broken person he is. He is dishonest and will lie to anyone to protect himself. He is a coward, who cannot even tell his own wife the truth. He is manipulative;and uses his physical sickness as a way to make others feel bad for him.

Indifference is something I am still striving for....I am past the point of missing him, but am not past the point where I would like to tell him off and see him suffer.

In the end it doesn't matter that he lied to his BW and denied it all. For her own reasons she chose to believe his lies and stay with him. But he knows the truth, and hopefully the guilt is eating at him....I on the other hand finally admitted the truth to my BH and am working with him to move past my A and get to R.

Hatred turned to indifference with time. That was for both A partners and myself. A lot of self loathing early on. Anyway, once I spent time and went through some self reflection I realized my mistakes and what needed to be done to move forward. Lots of work with books, IC etc. I'm glad I'm indifferent. Hatred would keep things alive in a way.

This is such a timely post for me. I have disgust for my AP. I take responsibility for the A but at the same time I realized she was very manipulative and helped in destroying my marriage and my BS.

I don't think I could hate anyone more than myself for my actions, but I hold great disdain for my FAP. A lot of that has manifested over time, especially in the revelation period I've had while talking things out with BH. AFTER the fact, I came to realize such obvious things about FAP that should have been so obvious to me during the OEA, regarding his character. Nothing about him was attractive to me except for the attention he gave me. I feel stupid for being so naive and selfish, and doing something so terrible with someone miles beneath my wonderful BH.

AFTER the fact, I came to realize such obvious things about FAP that should have been so obvious to me during the OEA, regarding his character. Nothing about him was attractive to me except for the attention he gave me. I feel stupid for being so naive and selfish, and doing something so terrible with someone miles beneath my wonderful BH.

Exactly how I feel. Perfectly said.

Nope. Like so many previous posters have said, I rarely (if ever) think about my APs, because bringing them into my present does a couple of things:

1. It reinforces their power over my life, which is the opposite of what I want them to have.

2. It reinforces my BS's belief that they have power over my life, which is a separate issue, because whether APs do or don't have any influence over me doesn't change the PERCEIVED influence over me.

3. It provides open opportunities for the APs to take over my BS's life and mind for a time. If I think about them, and I have to be honest with my BS as to what's on my mind, then it could trigger all kinds of things. Better to just be honest and admit that there's nothing of them on my mind at any moment (hopefully).

Granted, it's not possible to say with 100% certainty that things won't creep up in my/our life that won't dredge up old memories, but it's the WS's responsibility - I think - to minimize these chances if there's ever to be hope for R.

Besides which, do *you* really want to be reminded of the damaging and hurtful choices you made on a regular basis?