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Can I get some opinions please?

Briefly H's affair was a two week ea, a week of things slowly turning physical then a ons after which h continued the ea for a further 3 weeks, supposedly out of fear she would tell me.

She basically charmed him, telling him how great he was all the time, how he deserved to do what he wanted when he wanted, text him round the clock. Then made a pass by putting his lighter down her top and inviting him to get it, then she picked him up after a night out, drove him to a car park and literally lifted her skirt and invited him to have sex. That's what she did but he openly admits it was HIS fault, HIS decisions. He was flirting and open to her advances, she made him feel good, he text her every night for hours, he felt special and wanted, he got his lighter from down her top, he kissed her twice at work, he got in the car, and he accepted her offer though he claims it was cos he realised he had led her on and he didn't want her to tell me what they had been doing as well as being too cowardly to say no, rather then actually wanting to have sex with her. He was using her cos she made him feel good but he didn't really fancy her, was playing a game he thought he was in control of but realised in the car that she was playing him. She hadn't even responded to his previous kisses, which was as far as he wanted to go, yet when she picked him up and said she wanted to park up to talk so when she just lifted her skirt with no preamble he felt trapped and scared of offending her. Realised all he had done and figured he had lost me if I found out so took the cowards way and had sex with her.

H's version of the second half of his affair (after ons) was that he kept trying to make her end it cos he was too scared she would tell me what had gone on for him to risk pissing her off by ending it himself. Nothing more physical happened but he did continue texting her and acting like a 'friend' to keep her quiet. He admits he wanted her until he got her but after sex he just wanted shot of her. He had only wanted her for an ego boost.

Now my problem is, if this was the case, which makes sense to me in all honesty, why would he bring her here to meet me in the end!

He had started talking to her about me a lot and telling her how great we were getting on etc in the hope she would back off and stop texting all the time. He was too much of a coward to come right out with it.

But then he did a crazy thing. He showed her pictures of the nail art I was doing and gave her my number so I could use her as a guinea pig for my practice!!!

He claims he never thought she would actually come round and he was trying to make me think nothing was going on by acting how he would if they really were just friends.

Now when she did come round he was perfectly friendly with her when I was around but a few things happened that struck me as odd, obviously since that's how I figured out they were having an affair.

Firstly she asked for a run round the block on his motorbike. I said yes immediately but he barked NO! at the exact same time, then backed down frowning at my answer. I got her into MY helmet and gloves and helped her onto the bike. Usually when he gives someone a run he is gone for a good ten mins. With her he was back in about 3! Then I watched them from behind a curtain when they pulled up and she was getting him to undo the helmet, I swear he looked like he was touching radioactive waste! He looked over her head and stood as far away as possible and looked like she disgusted him.

Then when I was clearing up the nail stuff she went and sat in the garden where he was working. He practically ignored her but did make a passing comment that it was nice weather for a bbq. She squealed 'oh I love bbq's!' and he said, 'no point, only I eat meat.' again she squealed 'I do!!!' He mumbled, 'no it's ok'. Then he was trying to get her to leave, she over stayed her welcome by hours, and he said 'I need to do some decorating' and made to come in the house. She piped up 'oh, i'll help!!' He said no thanks curtly and came in and asked me if it was time to ring our son at his grandma's yet. He was having a short holiday with her. OW hovered around scowling when we made our call together then when we had finished she got the message we wanted her to leave and she stormed out in a fuming temper!

Now, whilst I was doing her nails she dropped all sorts of hints about how well they got on etc but told me she was gay and only uses men for what she can get from them and that she shouldn't lead them on cos they fall in love with her but she can't tell them the truth as they would all want 3somes then. Like she was the hottest things on the planet and was fighting them off with a stick. She also complained that her ex, who she lives with (male) had taken her out for dinner to try and get back with her supposedly but had in fact told her he had met someone else. She went nuts when she was telling me this how she didn't want him but she wouldn't have 'another woman in her house!' Ironic eh and that even though she didn't want him no one else could have him.

This sort of stuff went on and on. She told me about her 'admirers' no names just 'the millionaire, the stalker, the chef etc etc and showed me pics of her supposed gf on face book. They looked close and hugged in a few but no indication of a lesbian relationship. What disturbed me is this girl is only 19 and ow is 29, seems wrong to me. Anyway apparently ow ended it when gf went to uni.

The day was full of all this crazy making stuff and it showed me she really is not right in the head and I could see why h would have been scared by her and terrified she would tell me.

So why then give her my number and arrange for her to come here?

He claims that the only reason he didn't finish it was cos she wouldn't back off, was acting like a bunny boiler and wouldn't listen to him, just pretended they were still together really, and he was scared she would tell me. So why bring her here?

He reckons by that point he had had enough and the only way out he could see was have her meet me, like me, and call it off after seeing who they were hurting. It did actually work as she called it off the next working day for precisely those reasons. But he also figured that if she did tell me, so be it cos by that point he was just too cowardly to do it himself and in effect brought her here so I would see what had been going on without him having to confess.

I know it's all amazingly f'd up but it's all too complicated for me to figure out if this is true!

I know WS thinking is crazy but could he be telling the truth?

I know most people don't believe he didn't want the sex, but that's not what I am asking here. I don't want to get into that because I believe him. The ego boost was more important to him and he didn't want to go that far.

What I am asking is could he really have brought her here as some sick way of ending it cos he was too weak to do it himself? If so why did he go from being terrified she would tell me to giving her my number and shoving her under my nose! He swears he was not trying to end it with me and show me his new gf, he was trying to end it with her and make her realise is wasn't just a name. Yet he new he was risking me finding out. I can't figure it out!

OMGosh....restraining order in the future much? I agree with hubby...bunny boiler. If I were you, I would call her from hubby's phone and put her on speaker. He will tell her he told you everything and that he doesn't want her to bother him again. He wants you. Do the NC letter on speaker phone. This is one woman that will not take no for an answer or being turned down without you involved.

I think she was testing the waters of your relationship with your husband or wanted to see if a 3way was possible.

Why have her come over? Maybe to intimidate her into leaving him alone? Unless, he is not being truthful and is looking for a 3way too. (That was brought up way to many times in conversations to be a coincidence).

My hubby had an EA for a few months, just for the attention and Ego boost. He wasn't very careful about hiding the text messages, even texted in front of me. I found out the day he asked her if they had an emotional connection if so...we need to stop. He said he deliberately left the message for me to find on a sub-conscience level because his feeling for her (at that time he thought it was love, later after fog and dopamine high from the A it was just the attention she gave him, it could have been any girl) was making him feel guilty. I think there is a section in "Not Just Friends" that describes WS doing drastic things to stop the cycle in their own FU way.

I know you don't want to confront the whole sex thing.

But, my fWH didn't confess to me about day dreaming of having sex with the AP till months later after D-day.

Are you sure the affair is over and he didn't use that as a way to feel out your opinion on a 3way? As in, he couldn't ask you...but they collaborated on her coming over and mentioning a few times to see if it was possible?

Sort of a last ditch all or nothing effort? Do the NC, just in case that is the case and the A is underground now that you are clued in.

What I am asking is could he really have brought her here as some sick way of ending it cos he was too weak to do it himself?

Yes. Absolutely. Many WS want to get caught. Everything about his version of events points to him being weak, so it's in keeping with his character that he'd delegate the outing/confession to OW. Even though your WH admits it was his fault and his decisions, as long as this "she pursued me and I went along with it" narrative stays alive, he is not taking full responsibility.

What's to stop him "being weak" next time? That's why that narrative needs to die, IMO, because as long as that has traction, he's just another aggressive, damaged young OW away from cheating again.

he felt trapped and scared of offending her

What is he doing, in his personal growth work, to grow a spine and learn to stand up to people? That IMO should be his focus. The OW, and what she did or didn't do, is irrelevant.

And sometimes, they just cant stand up to people. really. They freeze. They dont want confrontation. They avoid. They panic....I have been trying to wrap my mind around this one.

Then a neighbor of ours came over with a request for us, that was crossing the line. I told my H about it 3 weeks earlier....He had time to prepare, to rethink, to plan an action..When the neighbor came over again, H couldnt respond. He could not even speak. It was a long quiet moment. Finally, I told the neighbor no. ANd H just kept blinking....I am not familiar with this side of my H. I have been learning slowly . He is not the person I thought he was.

In so many ways. He really cant confront. When we fight about the EA or A, he sits and never says a word. Just blinks

Whats ironic, is, his career has him fighting all day, for large amounts of money and contracts. He is excellent at his job. Its numbers and facts. He cant seem to fight when emotions are involved. I never knew this. AN SI'er told me this 3 yrs ago. I couldnt see it then...His career contradicted everything. Now I see. Its weakness.

From a recent post:

the day after he kissed her he asked for a break to sort his head out but decided to stay he said I would have to make changes. Do more around the house, his chores, so he would have more free time to have fun. Let him go on nights out, I was shocked at this cos I have never stopped him. Then the worst bit. He wanted me to 'sort myself out' meaning my weight and appearance. Ironically he is now on anti depressants too and is gaining weight. Will it bother me, not one bit. So stupidly like a besotted idiot I agreed and sent him out the next night. That's when they had sex...

He had asked for a "break" from the M to spend his "free time having fun."

Your current question "Why would he do this?"

Sounds like he didn't foresee consequences to fun time with OW. His play time was colliding with home time; sounds like he had lost control of the situation.

(((Olwen)))

Thank you everyone,

Just to clarify the A has been over since that day in April 2013. He confessed bit by bit over the next few months. He really was a coward.

Not anymore though. He is starting counselling tomorrow. Never goes out without me. Is truly remorseful, he is literally on his knees about this and doing ANYTHING he can to help me. He says it was pure cowardice at what he had been doing that led him to make his cya decisions, including bringing her here cos he couldn't do it himself. He hoped just meeting me would end it but I actually caught on as well.

I text her a few times and made it clear she better back the fuck off and she did. They has a massive row at work about my text and have zero contact now. I have all the phone records etc to prove it. also h told his bosses about the A. He got her moved to a different office so he wouldn't have to see her. I still have her number so he knows I could contact her at any time but she actually did back off. I think she was scared of me after my reaction to her. we haven't heard a peep from her since I found it all out in June. Even H's bosses know not to ask him anything about her work or vice versa. It has all been agreed and arranged. I can't even list all the things he is doing to make sure it never happens again and that he gets to the bottom of the why's. So much work going on and he is really disgusted with his actions.

He does own what he did, completely, he knows he chased her at first and got in over his head. That he was too weak to stop it, too weak to confess. He see every step of the what what he did wrong and how it was down to him to make the choices and he made all the wrong ones. He wanted the attention, the texting, the flirting, the kisses - he just didn't want the rest cos it was too 'real'. Too far. He could justify the rest as 'not too bad' in his addled mind but even in the midst of it sex was too far for him and he did stop very quickly. He did just enough so she would not feel rejected but ultimately he stopped very quickly, and she was offended, not enough to tell me though, they just had a row.

As an aside that night she knew he was out and waited til he said he was going home, said she was on her way to pick him up as was 'coincidentally' around the corner. He didn't see the harm as they had said they were 'just friends' after the kissing. Not in so many words but she hadn't kissed him back and had told him to forget it. She drove him round for ages then parked up in a car park. He said take me home but she insisted she just wanted to talk and he never could stand up to her as she was such an in your face character. Sadly that cocky (psycho) attitude was what had attracted him in the first place but he ended up being too scared to say no to her about anything - even to insist she took him home. He had seen her tantrums at work but thought cos she 'liked' him, he was special and she wouldn't be like that with him . He didn't realise she was playing him. Half an hour later out of the blue she literally offered herself on a plate. He panicked and thought how bizarre she had been behaving and practically shit himself, as he said 'shit got real', he was frightened what she would do if he said no and he didn't see how he could stop her and tell me all that had gone on so he took the cowards way out.

That's just to explain not to debate.

As for the 3some that was only mentioned once by her as a way to show how she had to keep her so called lesbianism to herself as if she told men they wanted her so much they would want a 3 some. H would never want that, believe me. Listing all her men and saying that was just to show me how bloody irresistible she thought she was. Just to make me feel worse I think. Even if I asked for one he would run to the hills, he is quite shy sexually although we do have a great sex life now.

I guess from your answers it is possible, thanks for that.

I have since spoken to him about this as well and he explained that even though he didn't want me to find out and that's why he was too scared to say no to her or end it, by the time she wanted to come round (why?!)he was just so sick of it he wanted it over and hoped she would back off without me knowing. He took a risk. It did work but what a horrible way to do it. It blew up in his face when I figured it out but by that time he didn't care as long as it was over. Then he went on to deny and minimise for ages but ultimately cracked when the guilt was too much for him. He actually became ill.

Now he just wants to work on us and do all he can to help me.

He hates himself for it. He feels sick at what he has done and especially being a coward and letting me find out that way.

ETA - h has never even said the word 3some to me I don't think. When I told him she had said it he screwed his face up and said OMG that's gross! She is so up herself!!

Also, that comment from a recent post, you're spot on! After they had kissed and she didn't kiss back he told her they couldn't do it again and she said just forget it. Then he asked me for a break but couldn't do it so he asked me to change and he would stay (he was so up his own arse! - at that point the affair was all my fault in his eyes and she encouraged him on that too) then using his own twisted logic because she wouldn't discuss the affair with him, he was trying to end it, and he stupidly told her he was going to have to leave me cos of what they had been doing, he thought she would say dont' do that cos she didn't want a real relationship with him and neither did he. Instead she gave her usual vague reply - do what you want.

SO he couldn't get her to listen and the idiot actually DECIDED to keep her as his little admirer making him feel good - but nothing physical so that was ok in his mind and keep me at home to wait on him hand and foot. He has admitted this and it makes him sick now.

[This message edited by olwen at 12:38 PM, February 13th (Thursday)]

Yes he was very weak, a typical mid life crisis. Feeling low about turning 40 and being in a new job. Along comes a young girl fawning all over him flirting and making him feel good. Suddenly his life with me is crap and he wants to be like her, free, single and arrogant. He actually says he was trying to act like 'a big man' and it blew up in his face.

He thought he was using her to make himself feel better but in reality she was playing her own game and he didn't like it when it took a turn he didn't want. He slowly realised over the course of the affair that he was too weak to say no to her as she would have a tantrum. He didn't really realise he wasn't in control until the car though and then he made the easy choice as usual.

Then was too weak to end it himself.

Typical.

He is a weak man who had no confidence and thought a young woman wanting him made him some big man.

He is disgusted now.

Thanks for all your replies. You have helped me muddle through this and see that he was weak all along so why not when he couldn't be strong enough to end it himself. It makes sense.

))Olwen((, I am fairly new here, only 2 months out of dd. But I must share that I thought WSO was remorseful and was doing everything he could to work on the relationship... but it all went to hell last night, in one night. In the midst of all his remorse and "work" on the relationship... he fell back into checking his g-mail account (used only for contact with her) and we lost 2 months of work on R. From what I read...this is not unusual, and I told him so, but he will still not admit that he was looking back into contacting her. I know he's not being truthful and it's put us in a completely different spot. Not saying "yes" or "no" to your assessment... just saying, it isn't always what it seems on the surface, even in the most remorseful guy. Be vigilant, and don't rely on scaring her out of contact. She may just decide to "out-bitch" you.

Thanks for your response jlyn

I am so sorry you have had a horrible step back in your R. It's horrible when that happens. We did go through similar for the first couple of months but that was God awful trickle truth. First it was an Ea, we start to deal with that, then it was just kissing then later he broke and confessed to sex. There have been no more revelations sine June and the affair ended in april so I am pretty sure I have it all by now.

I am totally confident it's over. They literally act as if the other doesn't exist. The day she ended it after meeting me he apparently told her ' finally, so now you get it! Just one question? why did you insist on keeping it going, why wouldn't you listen to me?' her response ' I was bored!'

That showed him instantly what she was really like.

He randomly leaves his phone lying around now. I have access to his records so I can see if he texts any number repeatedly. He has agreed to a polygraph (I decided against it) he has offered to put a tracker on his phone and even to me bugging him somehow!!! He said if you can think of a way to watch me 24/7 please do it, I want to prove you can trust me now. If I wanted to I could go to his work anytime. So much stuff I can't list it all here. Even down to applying for jobs all over the country to get clear away from her.

He wouldn't interview for a post 400 miles away from our home if it was still going on.

as for her, we exchanged a few choice texts and since then nothing. The last from her answered a question I had asked and then said - please leave me out of this now, I hope you can sort things out. No apology but it looked to me like she had got bored of her games.

She then moved on to another one of their colleagues

He does see her in passing but tells me anything that happens. for example, he doesn't look at her if she comes in the main office but he heard someone say 'oh you have coloured your hair' he glanced out of curiosity cos he knew I would want to know and told me straight away she had changed to my hair colour! He also told me when she changed her car recently.

I can't explain how I feel so certain. I can just feel the disgust he feels for himself If her name comes up. He doesn't hate her, he says he is completely indifferent to her. he doesn't have enough feeling for her to hate her. that's my job! He does feel sick at the thought of her and wishes she would find another job but that's it.

He confessed to his parents and mine about the affair, and his bosses.

I just know deep down he would never have anything to do with her again.

If he did - he wouldn't see me for dust, and he knows it!

[This message edited by olwen at 2:07 PM, February 13th (Thursday)]

Oh and he also offered to get his bosses to ring me and verify exactly what he has said to them and that all he has told me is true about her being moved etc and that they don't speak. I didn't take him up on it but if ever I get suspicious I have their numbers!

fWH was the same. Big ego trip for the now successful manager that has all these young girls looking up to him. He being the nerd in school that never got a lot of attention suddenly wasn't shy anymore. Never mind that he has a best friend/wife that he always said was out of his league that loved him no matter what nerd and all before his new position in life. Him turning 40 now, just loving the ego boost, fun, carefree, new life, with no responsibilities and plenty of flirting and teasing.

Too bad we can't show them just how their ego will feel like after they get caught. Try recovering that. So, it boosted their ego for a bit...only to make it worse than it was before the A.

Now, not only do they have their own self esteem issues but now they have to deal with everyone else's changed view of them.

Really sounds like a "perfect storm" affair.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 2:49 PM, February 13th (Thursday)]

Spot on hopeful mother! h was also the geek I loved him then. He is now a handsome mature man and I love him the same. He just didn't appreciate that and kept dwelling on whether he really was attractive. I guess he thought I had to say that.

I loved the man. I love the man.

I just get baffled at who he became. Such a cliché! Total personality change.

We figured out pretty quick it was external validation that was his problem along with some FOO that left him begging for approval.

He is working on learning to love himself - and to appreciate what he has and nearly lost.