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Wow, now I'm wondering if I really want to try to R if my husband is this stupid!

After telling me 2/13 that "a part of him still wants to be with her", and that he helped her with a flat tire two weeks ago, I was hurt and angry and have slept in the guest bedroom since.

I DID ask him for the truth and thanked him for his honesty (we were talking about transparency).

This morning - on the way to MC - he asks me why I have been sleeping in the guest room. I said, lets save it for the MC session. How could you not know?

MC asks how things have been this week and I invite WH to tell his version. Then I tell mine.

WH starts getting angry b/c "I misconstrue everything". So, I calmly ask: Did you have contact with her and not tell me, like we agreed?

Did you not say a part of you still wanted to be with her? What did I "misconstrue"?

He is still acting like an ass and I say I am leaving the session, that he needs more IC and maybe they can do that in the remaining 30 minutes. The counselor asks me to stay and I do.

The counselor tries to calm us down (this isn't going well). So I tell him that my WH gave me a dozen roses at 5:30 am the day after I first slept in another bed. "What's wrong with that," MC asks. "I told him before that I don't like roses." WH admits he remembered that.

So, are you being passive-aggressive? The point is, you don't even know me anymore!

Later that night (tonight), we "get into it" again. He STILL didn't understand the whole transparency thing. He was "damned if he did, damned if he didn't".

That's right, asshole. He MIGHT get it now.

Since he had previously told me the AP was a little "thick" and he was so stupid, maybe they SHOULD be together.

I am feeling VERY OVER this right now!

No, not damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Scenario 1: "OakStreet, I have to tell you something. OW was on the side of the road with a flat tire on X-day, and I stopped and fixed it. I should have driven by. At the time, I felt that I just couldn't leave her sitting there, but I broke our agreement of NC. I need to apologize to you."

Results - Upset, maybe some tears, discussion about NC, about why it was broken, hopefully new ground covered and new understandings on both sides. Perhaps productive discussion with MC.

Scenario 2: well, heck, you know what that one was. And you know what the result is and the pain is ongoing.

You do have to wonder if, at times, there are two brain cells that are somewhat adjacent to each other to rub together to cause the most feeble of sparks of understanding.

Your WH doesn't seem like he is really in R. It seems like he is still in a fog, unwilling to really change. It might be time to 180 him.

This sounds SO like my WH before he actually decided to change. Not fun - I feel your pain. It's like they hide the truth from themselves. I think that's the source of their "stupidity" if you want to call it that.

If he is unsure whether he wants to be with the AP then the MC won't help, just as it didn't in my marriage before DDay. My H would just lie, make me the bad guy, claim he forgot what he said etc etc. I would try things like sleeping separately, leaving the house etc. Nothing changed in his mind until he made the decision to be different. I suspect your H won't seriously start thinking about things until the stakes are really high, and you get ready to move on with or without him. Take good care of yourself.

A bit if a threadjack, but I have to thank KatyDo for what she posted. Hit the nail on the head. First of all, even years before the betrayal in my marriage, if we had a serious fight with no resolution, I would often grab my pillow and sleep elsewhere. It NEVER solved anything. It would piss me off if he didn't come *get me*, and it allowed him to be the victim of an overly sensitive bitchy wife. I will never do it again, it solves nothing.

And the even better thing that KD pointed out, IMO, is that the source of a WH's seeming stupidity is that they are not being honest.....not owning the consequences of selfishness in a relationship, and most probably resisting any change to their behavior.

Back to the original post: of course your WH should fully understand the unacceptability of his breaking NC, and furthering the damage by hiding it from you. I don't understand the MC not holding him accountable for that behavior. I'm sure that it erased any trust that he'd been able to re-instill with you. I have no answers for you. I don't know how you might continue to try R if WH can so easily undermine the essential things like NO CONTACT and NO OMISSIONS. Good luck, and don't go sleeping on the couch, you don't deserve that. And what does it do for you, really.

Thanks all!

The NC thing is a bit difficult, since they are at the workplace together every day! She said she would leave for another job (after Dday), but hasn't been able to find one (we are in a rural area).

Perhaps I wasn't clear, but I think my WH does want to work on R - he is just a bit dense. He told me he is "staying away from her" and being "indifferent".

We have definite communication issues.

I guess I was trying to drive home the point of how upset I was that "a part of him still wanted to be with her". I was so upset that I didn't want to be around him. Gotmegood: You're right, it's not solving anything.

and that he helped her with a flat tire two weeks ago

Why is it that in all the time I drive around and go and do things I hardly ever run into the same people....yet your WS just "happens" to run into his affair partner when she was in distress and had a flat tire????

It is amazing how often WS's just happen to run into their AP. Its all by accident.

Please don't buy into his crap. He is still way deep into the fog and even telling you so with his "missing her" statement.

Just another thought after your clarification Oakstreet-

Only you can determine if WH seems regretful of his actions, and sincere about his desire to make things as right as he can, win back your trust, and reclaim his marriage to YOU without the AP in his life. Only you. It's a big scary decision that each of us who attempt R after the big betrayal have to make....weighing the merits of the marriage you could get back to vs the fear of 'will he, who is capable of such tremendous deception and selfishness, do it again'. Is he being honest about his commitment to me/us? I would guess that your WH was being truthful when he admitted that sometimes he "still wants to be with her". I had to hear that my WH's memories of being w/ the scurrying rat prostitute were pleasant, and that they felt guilt-free to him at the time. It is painful to hear, and will stay with me and frighten me for a long time. But, they were honest. It wasn't a lie. What you identify as the problem for you right now is how could he not know how difficult his words were for you to hear. And I agree with you. And I would not drop it. To have true R, there needs to be empathy and an attempt on WH's part to see and feel from your viewpoint. It is exhausting to have to stop and explain your feelings endlessly. I would bring this up again in MC. (Your MC sounds brain dead to me to have let this go btw). I would question his empathy in this matter. And, good luck, it all just sucks, but hopefully will be worth the work......