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In my NB I have met the most interesting people. The thing is I also am or a lot of times.

Do the details matter if people are successful and live a straight life?

I tend to think so but I also didn't realize I was in my own little world most of my life with all the same type of people from similar families.

For example- cleaning or homework. Does it say something if the person doesn't clean their room or take care of completing projects - half doing it or focus on the Internet over conversation? Is it reflective if they care or have the ability to really care because you have to care for yourself before you care for others? Or does it not matter and some of the best people keep messy rooms.

I never realized but unsaid I have always been around neat organized people. Not making your bed is unheard of and this includes college and post college. Maybe it means nothing.

I suppose I just wonder if it makes a difference on how the person will be when they get older. Do they have the capacity to care or will it be an indication of how they take care of things?

If it matters to you, then it matters. I can handle some disorder - a book left here, a stack of clothes there, an unmade bed - but I can't handle unclean spaces and I get very uneasy in chaotic surroundings.

I don't know that a disordered space necessarily indicates a personality flaw unless it's to the extreme (hoarding tendencies, for example).

That being said, tolerance levels vary greatly. If you have a very high standard for yourself, you may be most comfortable with people who have similar standards.

oh my this is an issue near and dear to my heart. my mother is compulsively both clean and organized. there was no ability to be a child in her house, no toy ever left out, no finger prints allowed. as a result I think I am compulsively messy.

Not to the extreme... but no I don't tidy up regularly. beds often don't get made. there is often things stacked on the dinner table or counter. throw pillows are often tossed about the living room. however, the house is always clean under the clutter. I cannot stand filth. that's where my line is.

I think we are drawn to those who match our comfort levels. There's nothing wrong with being very organized or scattered. One study I read said that too much organize and structure in a workspace limits creativity. Its probably less efficient in finding something quickly though. Pros and cons of both sides.

Yeah, it just depends.

I'm messy and disorganized and with two kids, a dog, and 3 cats, full-time school/internship and a freelance job, my house even gets *gasp* dirty.

When I dated one guy who was a total organized/clean person I put a lot of pressure on myself to do better around my house--and he was critical of my housekeeping. I wore myself out.

I find I'm more comfy dating people who can tolerate some mess. If I see they are a bit messy it helps me feel more comfy.

I realized recently that I actually carry a lot of shame around my house.

Anyway, I'm awesome and creative, just not that organized and in my free time I want to be out doing something besides cleaning.

I never make my bed. I just don;t see the point -- I will be sleeping in it again in 16 hours. My house is also a disorganized mess. For example, I don't put the peanut butter back in the pantry on weekdays because I will just need it again the next day. It is more convenient to keep it on the counter.

That does not mean that I do not take care of things, it just means that having things tidy is not important to me and have things untidy does not bother me, but I know it does bother some people. It drives my SIL crazy if things are not in place in her home. Consequently she spends hours every day just keeping things tidy. Waste of time in my opinion, but to each their own.

As far as taking care of things, I take excellent care of my car. I change the oil, rotate the tires, and do all other regular maintenance on time. But I don't wash it. Why bother, it will just get dirty again tomorrow. I take care of my house. In the past 6 months I have had the tress trimmed, the gutters fixed, the siding replaced, a couple of windows and doors replaced, and completely painted on the outside. I take excellent care of my DD and my dogs. My dogs need a bath right now, but only because it has been cold and I don't like to bath them when it is cold because they take so long to dry.

I don;t think being untidy equates to not caring about things. I think it just means you are not tidy.

Interesting, when I walk into to a spotlessly clean and compulsively organized home... I have to combat things the other way round. Basically what you are saying but in the reverse. Do people live here - or just exist? If possession are so meticulously cared for, do the people take time for each other? Or does the appearance of things take priority? White carpets? Really? And you have kids?

I grew up in a very wealthy town, 2.5 children in each house beautiful (literally). We were the blue collar family with 8 kids that bought the old fixer-upper and my dad did all the work himself. My neighbors were eating cow's tongue for dinner and we were eating spaghetti. Guess where all the kids hung out? It was my folks who dropped everything to watch the kids swim in the bay, who coached little league, and were den parents at boyscouts. So I learned early things were just things - a well cared for house didn't mean it was a home...

I think it just boils down to your upbringing. I've met some very anal people when it comes to their homes and possession. I have to suppress my first impression of the house to get to know the people. Some are sweethearts, and some are very uptight and seemed almost trapped by their need to have everything in order and in its place. I met some messy people who are sweethearts too, and some who treat everything and everyone like crap.

Seriously, when all is said and done, is it going to matter if your house was clean, or is it going to be the time spent with family and friends, and feeding your soul, that brings you the most joy?

Me, I vote for the time with family and friends, and feeding my soul. My house is a freakin' disaster. I sort of make my bed in the morning, and by make I mean I pull up the comforter. I have piles of books and magazines all around. My kitchen counters are filled with appliances and gadgets. I will never win Yard of the Month, ever.

Sure, it'd be nice if my house was cleaner, but I'm not going to feel guilty that it isn't. Frustrated at times maybe, but not guilty.

raising my hand and settling carefully into a seat already piled with papers on the messy side of the room....

It is such a relief that my new husband is a slob like me! My late husband had been in the Navy for 20+ years, and my messy ways plus his reaction to them caused us both stress.

I agree that what matters is simply about your comfort level. I was raised in quite a bit of disorganization, and my first husband was disorganized. But, after that, my serious boyfriend of three years, and then my now XWH, were both extremely organized men. I'm kind of in the middle. My preference for my household is more on the clean, organized side, but that doesn't mean I always do that so I'm kind of in the middle.

My SO seems to be around the same level I am, maybe slightly worse, but he does have three kids to run around. And, he's very active, loves to DO things, loves projects, is very responsible - and I think THAT is more of an indicator of his capacity in the future than the fact that he has a very messy desk.

Double post

[This message edited by persevere at 10:05 PM, March 1st (Saturday)]

Does it say something if the person doesn't clean their room or take care of completing projects - half doing it or focus on the Internet over conversation

These are three totally different behaviors

cleaning,

unfinished projects,

focus on internet over talking

1. Cleaning is, imo, just a preference based largely on your childhood. Often those assigned chores just continue that pattern of cleaning as adults (or rebel against cleaning all together). And those who never had chores continue that pattern (or flip and become very neat). So I don't think it matters (not a red flag) as long as you are a general match for whoever you live with.

2. Unfinished projects is a problem if it is a pattern. Then you need to determine the root cause. Is the person poor at estimating the scale of the project? unable to plan and execute the project? or looses interest once the novelty has worn off?

These would be concerns, but that last one (craves novelty) is a red flag.

3. Internet over conversation depends on the frequency. If it's occasionally (e.g., have to check a work email) that isn't a problem BUT if the person is ignoring someone talking to play internet games it's rude and could be a method to make the speaker feel unimportant and not worthy of any of the person's time. If it's that later and a pattern: HUGE RED FLAG!!!

[This message edited by PhoenixRisen at 1:14 PM, March 1st (Saturday)]

I'm with Dreamboat. I don't see the percentage in doing something that is just going to be undone the same day. I 'live' in my home; I don't just exist there. Nothing is 'out of place' as far as I'm concerned--it's exactly where it was meant to be.

Unfinished projects? Story of my life; if I care enough about it, I'll probably finish it, but I like to try new things and look at life as a journey rather than a destination.

But that's just me. Whatever works for you is fine for you; just don't judge others by your standards.

I am not an organized person. I am messy. NOT DIRTY. Messy. There is no mold or infestation. But there is mess. I just don't have the straightening and cleaning gene.

My toilets are clean.

My kitchen floor is clean.

The counters are clean but have stuff on them.

I don't care if beds are made.

The tubs/showers are clean.

The laundry is done every week.

I know where things are. There just happens to be a large number of other things in the same place.

NG you made me

Thank you for the responses. I guess I wonder if it all matters.

I suppose one behavior is not indicative of another.

Thanks again- very insightful!

So a slightly different perspective, and really a rhetorical.

Ultimately where does the cleanliness vs. messiness come from, and is THAT the personality trait the one you will struggle with in your SO?

I was given a diagnosis of ADD as an adult, and I can now see where certain behaviors of doing or not doing things comes from. Those of us with ADD (and I can see this in my students as well) expend a lot of energy just processing the world as we go through the day. Filtering out things is hard, and the mental energy it takes to complete tasks means we don't have that energy for other tasks.

By the time 8 or 9 roles around (and some days even earlier for which I commonly take power naps) I am exhausted. My STBX used to criticize me for not being able to be more productive in the evenings.

When it comes to projects (including cleaning) I have come to realize that I have a mixture of perfectionist issues and inertia issues. I know that once I start a project I want to do it well (clean multiple rooms, put everything away, spotless...or every I dotted...or the nail holes and cracks in the window trim are completely filled and painted). But I also have an idea of how long the task would take me, and if I don't have enough time to do it the way I envision doing it, I just don't start. Unfinished tasks are just horrid to me, but yet the ADD and time will often derail me and I have unfinished tasks in my wake.

So in my case you could say that I am messy (not a horder, thank god), but would I describe it as a character flaw...I don't think I would. I am warm, care about other people deeply, and will do something for another person, before doing it for myself. If that is something a SO wants in their life, then they would have to put up with those other tendencies.

So I would ask on each situation where does the cleanliness or messiness come from, and is that something that is a deal breaker for you?

Oh...and right now my inertia on grading student papers is way high...I'd rather be talking with you fine people on SI.