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WS has made neutral comments about ho-worker that irk me, but most of the time, and especially when I specifically asked questions about her, he spoke of her with disdain and insults. While I'm unsure if he had an affair - in detective mode right now - this pattern also played out with my ex-husband and his ho-worker.

I'm sure it's to throw us off. But it does make you wonder how very little WS think of their APs. And I wonder if APs know how badly they are spoken of, or if it would make a difference. I'm trying to put myself in their dirty shoes and I cannot imagine wanting to have an affair with someone who spoke of me so horribly, even if it was to throw off their BS.

Some of the words WS has used to describe ho-worker are :

she's a nosy twat

she's hamburger and your steak

Ewwww GOD NO! (when I asked if anything was going on)

She's dumb (and also described how he and another female coworker laughed behind her back about how dumb she is)

Laughed when his mom made the comment about her "who's the fat girl trying to wear short shorts".

Made derogatory comments about her having kids by different fathers.

Made comments that the OMM she was rumored to be having an affair with must have "gotten the hell out of there" and "made a run for it" to get away from her.

She's an attention whore.

How he felt bad for her because she tried so hard to get in shape but it would never work with her basically crappy body. (this comment was sort of both suspicious and insulting. I didn't like that he "felt bad" for her, but then to make a comment about her crappy body in the same breath)

She always stinks like cigarettes and has bad breath

And more

My ex spoke similar about his ho-worker.

She's a bitch

She's dumb

She's ugly but has a good body

Etc

I get some of that may be to throw us off, but in both my experiences the insults about OW were based on truths about them. So they really were being personally insulting about them.

I wish I would have recorded those kinds of comments and played them back for these OW.

LOL...I got the same utter BULLSHIT.

I was told 'she's a big gal' and 'she's not really attractive" and 'I'm not interested in her romantically, but we're great friends..." and all that nonsense.

He even claimed she was "so dumb" - just like yours did - and he said that drove him crazy how stupid she was.

I had to chuckle as I read your post because your husband pretty much said the same exact crap that my ex did.

Do they all get this swill from a Cheater's Manual?

Lastly, I've learned over the years that where there's smoke there's fire. You suspect him for a reason, so don't ignore your gut.

If they talk about the AP like this with you, you can only imagine the things they say about the BS to the AP. They usually have a lot more personal things to tell them.

Funny when I asked him about her I got " she's an overweight 61 year old woman!!!! " Considering the photos she sent to him of herself in a barely there nightie in one pic and a barely there nightshirt in another, she was definitely not overweight. ....... And he thinks he's kidding who?

The flip side of that coin, sadly, is probably that some WH's talked down about the BS to the OW too.

"Yeah. I love my BW. But she's not dirty and sexy like you are.

My wife is such a nag. I bet you'd be nicer to me if you were my wife.

We don't have sex anymore and when we do she's like 'hurry up and get it over with'.

My wife's so predictable. My wife's a great cook and mother but she doesn't SEE me any more.

My wife HATES sports. I could never talk like this to her about it.

Ally wife cares about is shopping and kids!"

I could go on but I think you catch my drift.

Some WS's will say anything to throw you off the scent.

In our situation OW was "just one of the lads. A nice girl but she's not a girlie woman like you. She's a foul mouth tomboy!"

OutoftheDeep:

I'm using stereotypical generalizations here, but I do think that Wayward Husbands are far more likely, in the immediate aftermath (during False or Real Reconciliations) to speak derisively of their Affair Partners to their spouses, largely because the nucleus of their affair is sexual gratification / male ego reinforcement. He might have thought the OW was a "whore" / "skank" from the get go, and in fact, that could have been the Value Added Benefit the WH was seeking.

Wayward Wives (again, generalizing) tend to see an emotional nucleus to the affair, and thus, in the Fog, can cling to a more romanticized view of the AP. There is, in such instances, a tendency towards more protective language when speaking of the AP at first, because the WW wasn't primarily seeking an easy lay from the nearest phallus-bearing, language-speaking biped. That's the kind of thing "skanks" do, and most WWs don't want to think of themselves in such unsavory terms.

The horror for many a Wayward Wife who reconciles is that, with time and perspective, they discover that their Affair Partner, Mr. Romantic Bearer of intimate conversations / wine / roses / poetry, had a far more transactional view of the exchange all along.

Recognition that they were used for sexual gratification / male ego boosting can make the WW's guilt far greater in the aftermath in these cases, but it makes their Affair Fog thicker, too. The WH may have known he was a "dirty dog" all along (and may have taken Male Pride in it), but the WW did not believe, and doesn't want to believe, she behaved like a "skank", because it will hurt her Female Pride to admit this.

The irony of it all, it seems to me, is that both Wayward Husbands and Wayward Wives saw the same basic Value Added Benefit in their Affair Partner while in the Fog:

"He/She understands and appreciates me, unlike my Spouse!"

It's Ego Gratification, but the medium of exchange to assign that Value is quite different. The WH saw the Sexual Desire as the sign he was appreciated. The WW saw the Intimate Connection as the proof that she was valued. Their respective desires weren't wrong-- but their outlets for seeking such reinforcement were.

I know I'm really generalizing here and exceptions abound. Some WW's seek the sex as recklessly as a Frat Guy during Rush Week, and some WH's want romance/intimacy above the bumping-of-new-gonads.

But in my own history, and those I've seen secondhand, these seem to be the archetypes.

If they talk about the AP like this with you, you can only imagine the things they say about the BS to the AP. They usually have a lot more personal things to tell them.

I don't necessarily think this is true. One way compartmentalization. Some WS are masters at it, my ex was.

dude......i read what my wife said about me.....

of all the things that haunt me....even the sexy talk....doesnt bother me as much as what she said about me as a person.....as a father....as a human being.

I can't shake it....no matter how many times she says she didnt mean it, no matter hw sorry she is....no matter how much she says that she was totally wrong in her beliefs at the time.....

doesn't matter.......Im always the piece of shit

and now....with that being said.....im mad as F### right now.....how fucking low of a person do you have to be.....

[This message edited by Long Gone at 9:58 AM, March 7th (Friday)]

My H also did not speak badly of me; OW was an acquaintance, saw us together, knew I rocked. She was willing to accept crumbs. My H passed a polygraph on the subject.

He had nothing good to say about her. In fact I never worried about her, although she's a decade younger and attractive. She is flaky, needy and talks constantly! But it turns out that attraction doesn't always have to be there, and constant talk isn't always so annoying if it's constant ego stroking! They were "involved" long enough, however, for her crazy to come out and he was in deep regret even before Dday.

I would love to tell her that I know all her crazy secrets, that she had sex in the back of a filthy SUV (on the bottom!), that he wouldn't even have dated her if he was single (and in fact never did take her on a date). He thinks he could go to any bar and find someone better if he was truly looking and not just taking advantage of a "free offer". That he never loved or respected her and frankly did not enjoy spending time with her, and realized ultimately that he did not even like her. (Of course by then she was threatening and yelling insults). When I said that she was attractive he said "have you seen her face?". Well, yes, but not while crying about how "lonely" she was.

I realize my H is just as pathetic to risk everything for a person he thought so little of. But, he had a full life on the other side of the "compartment" while she waited around for increasingly infrequent crumbs and not so much as a text on Valentine's Day or a card for her birthday.

But I keep this information to myself.

After D-day my WH said things like

She's a bitch

She's selfish

She's greedy

She has saggy boobs

She has stretch marks on her ass

(I could have gone a lifetime without knowing the last two)

He said she tried to talk badly about me but he stuck up for me. Who knows.

I think as BS though we would not be surprised to find out the WS spoke negatively of us in order to bait an AP. The whole thing is so disgusting and horrible, that would be just another drop of pee in the nasty toilet of betrayal. We are in hell already.

The AP, on the other hand, has usually deluded themselves into thinking they are in quite the opposite of hell. They are in fairy dust land where everything is lurve and soul mates and fun and they are the starring princess/prince of an affair in which the BS are cast in the roles of villians.

Hence my fantasy of wondering what would happen if a WS was every taped uttering all this stuff about an AP and the AP had to sit and listen to reams of the WS speaking of things like their nasty cigarette breath, their bratty kids (another thing I forgot WS said) their being chopped liver compared to the BS, and their unfortunate attempts to try to find shorts that take away from the fact they have no body.

If a BS heard a similar tape it would of course be hurtful but we'd also be like "yeah he/she is a cheating asshole of course".

Interesting..mine said a lot of the things listed above about ow...BEFORE the A. Not so much after

and now....with that being said.....im mad as F### right now.....how fucking low of a person do you have to be

So sorry to stir up these feelings in you. I understand, I think with me though I have prepared myself for the worse. I've imagined the worse is possible at every avenue of this thing. Any less hurtful, probably not, but it's like you said "how low of a person do you have to be". That's them, not us.

Which brings me back to another thing I think of. It's such a weasely, beta type of move to whine about the person THEY CHOSE to be with. What kind of real man or woman is such a wimp that they can't just move on and find something better from their "terrible spouse"? What type of bottom-rung-in-the-animal-hierarchy type of person does not protect and defend the mate that THEY chose?? What kind of omega-bottom-feeder refuses to be proud of the decision THEY made in choosing a mate?

Waywardness is so unattractive on a very primal level.

[This message edited by OutoftheDeep at 10:19 AM, March 7th (Friday)]

No, because AP's are living in fantasy land. My FWH has admitted that he was lying to everybody during the course of his A. At least he has admitted it to me. I doubt he has told her, but I don't really care, because I don't care what she thinks. About anything. If she wants to believe that he is still carrying a torch for her, she can go ahead and knock herself out. She is having to do that alone.