SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Here's my brief tale of woe having recently joined the forum that no one wants to me a member of.

I've lived with my WW for 25 years, married for 19 of them and we have a 19 year old son. Like many long term marriages things had become stale in the last few years. Although we still got on with each other there was little real emotional connection or deep conversation, or indeed much conversation at all. Sex was occasional and never initiated by WW. We were both living in our own bubbles and, unlike my WW, I was content with the 'companionship' aspect of our marriage.

My WW began an EA a couple of years ago with a divorced coworker 11 years her junior, (he no longer works there) which progressed to a PA in the last year. DD was on our 19th wedding anniversary of all days!

Needless to say I thought my world had ended and I've been an emotional/mental/physical wreck since then. Since discovery of her affair my WW has refused to end the relationship and as a result I told her to leave the house. For the past 3 months she has been staying in a friend's spare room.

Since our separation we generally meet once a week for a coffee, lunch, gym session etc. Things are very amicable between us although initial meetings were very difficult for me as I would break down emotionally in front of her. I believe she LMBNILWM. She recently stated she thought she was having a MLC. (she's 47)

I raised an idea at the weekend of the possibility of her moving back home with no conditions on her still seeing OM. This option was not offered to her but rather something for discussion between us at a later date.

My reasoning for possibly inviting her back home is I'd then be in a position to show her the affectionate loving husband I can be on a daily basis and hopefully fulfill the emotional needs that she's currently getting from the OM.

So do I opt for the carrot or stick with the stick? Do we continue to live apart and I just hope the affair eventually ends at some point (she shows no sign of ending it so far) and maybe implement a 180 or do I go proactive and try to 'nice' her out of the affair with a time limit in my own mind?

I'm ready for the incoming 2x4s...enabling her cake eating...I'm being a doormat etc etc.

If you believe that is the case and I'm being a mug then please tell me and feel free to ask any Qs. I value ALL responses. Thank you. This forum has been a valuable resource to me during the worst period in my life.

"If you're going through hell, keep going"

are you willing to stay in a marriage in which she has an open affair partner? if so, invite her back in. if not, end it.

do not invite her back while she's seeing the OM. She will continue to see him, and she will see you. It's called cake-eating. She will enjoy the attention of two men. She won't stop her affair and it will be worse than hell for you.

The best thing in my opinion is to implement the 180 and initiate divorce proceedings. Check out the 180 in the healing library. The 180 is for you but it has the added benefit that it sometimes turns around your wayward. Basically, you detach from her. She isn't behaving like a wife. She isn't even behaving like a friend. Do you want to continue like this? If not, detach from her and initiate divorce proceedings. She needs to see that you aren't willing to share your wife. She will then be faced with a choice. Either she ends her relationship with OM and starts to try to make up for the damage she's caused to her marriage, or she will be content with divorce. If she chooses the former, you have the chance to save you marriage. If she chooses the latter, you've already lost her.

Stop getting emotional in front of her. She sees this as a sign of weakness. You don't look strong, decisive, or attractive when you're crying in front of her. The theory is, if you really are willing to beg so much, maybe she can do better than you. Maybe you're not so special after all. Stop seeing her. Only see her if it concerns your son. Stop paying for her. Make her pay her own way if you can. Just completely detach.

Best of luck friend.

Hi SoS,

Sorry that you find yourself on SI but it really is the best place to be at this time. You'll get the best help and support here.

No 2x4's from me. Just gently reminding you that you cannot 'nice' her back into the marriage. Also, you deserve better than a cake eating wife!

You have enforced a very firm boundary by asking her to leave while the A is still on going. Do not go back on it now.

Have you read the healing library on this site? You can find it in the yellow box in the top left of the screen.

There's information there about the 180. It's a process the BS can go through to detach from their WS and heal themselves. If you become strong, healthy and capable of having a life of your own without your wife then you will be ok, whether your wife comes out of the fog or not.

You cannot control her but you can control you. Focus on yourself, you can survive this. One step and one day at a time. Keep posting here, it will help.

Why would you want to allow an unremorseful, active, lying cheat back into your home ? I suggest you stop having contact with her. No coffee, gym or lunches. She is not a friend, friends do not do what she has done to you. She refuses to stop the A and is simply using you my man. This so-called friendship between you and your WW is nothing more then manipulation on her part. She gets to continue acting the way she wants which has no regard for your feelings and is totally disrespectful. Stop letting this woman call the shots here pal. Slam the door shut, go NC, employ the 180 and start healing yourself.

I noticed you're from the UK. There's a few of us around but the vast majority here are from the US. Don't get disheartened if you don't get many replies until later, the time difference means it's always quieter here in the morning.

Makes no sense what you are doing.? There is no incentive for her to do anything different. If she moves back in you will have an open marriage that you have agreed to .

If you have not presented her with divorce papers do it NOW and move on. You are inflicting this pain on yourself and the blame on to yourself.

And like others have said STOP meeting her . She goes and bangs him and then meets you for coffee. Step back and think how ludicrous you would think this is if it was not happening to you but one of your friends.

Cake eaters don't stop and if she sees how easy this is for her when and if he gets tired of her she will find another one

Stick with the stick, my friend.

From your post, it seems like you still have not hit the anger phase and you are still trying to bargain for the return of your normal life and marriage. This isn't going to work.

First off, if your ultimate goal is to try to get her back, your question to yourself has to be why. Why would you want an unremorseful cheater back? You see what she's capable of. She never bothered to tell you she was bored or unhappy with the marriage. She instead poured all of her energy into starting a new relationship and giving herself to someone besides her husband. She stuck a knife into your back and smiled to your face countless times. She's the enemy - you don't invite the enemy back into your camp.

If, after really thinking about it and seeing who she is now rather than the person you remember, you still want her back, hanging out with her and being sweet to her while she's still screwing OM isn't the way to do it. You have never shown her what it's like to lose you. It doesn't matter if you don't live together - you're still there for her emotionally. She still gets the benefit of you and she still gets to shit all over you whenever she feels like it.

You don't nice her back in. You turn around, walk away, and show her that you're going to stand up for yourself. You do this for your own emotional health.

If you continue like you are or, god forbid, she moves back in while still actively involved in an affair, you will chip away at your soul a little bit every day. You will lose your entire self to her. You don't want that.

Listen, I was where you are. I tried so hard to show him that I was still the person he married and I prayed so hard he would see me for me again. He never did.

After a couple of months of me trying exactly what you are trying, I finally realized I had to walk away. I eventually found my anger and went through the whole process, but walking away was my first step. There is no way around this pain, but I promise you your pain will end one day if you stick up for yourself. If not, your pain will remain for as long as you allow her in your world. She's manipulative and toxic and she's about fifty shades of fucked up.

Walk away and save yourself. You're the one who matters here.

So do I opt for the carrot or stick with the stick?

Put down the stick and grab some bricks. Your WW is still cake eating because you are still showing her attention. I speak from experience when I say you cannot nice a WS back into a M. She gets to live her single life sleeping with OM and gets to hang out with you once a week for coffee. Hard 180 my friend. No more contact with her at all. Cut her off unless it involves finances or kids. IMO, if they are still actively involved in the A then focus on detaching yourself and go see a L to figure out your rights. You can't have 3 people in a M and right now there are 3 people in your M.

You are going to be fine. Go NC with her and begin to detach emotionally. She detached from you long ago before she even started her A. None of this is your fault. It was 100% your WW's choice to have an A. Also don't be surprised to find out the A was much longer and likely physical much sooner than she told you. your WW is not your friend right now. she is an unremorseful pod person that will use you for ego kibbles. Take back control of your life and detach so you can make decisions you need to mvoe forward.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:07 AM, June 17th (Tuesday)]

My reasoning for possibly inviting her back home is I'd then be in a position to show her the affectionate loving husband I can be on a daily basis and hopefully fulfill the emotional needs that she's currently getting from the OM.

How do you know you weren't showing her these needs in the first place. Did your wife ever tell you that before she started going out with some other guy.

From what you wrote, it sounds like it was your wife that started to withdraw, not you.

In almost every affair, it is not the BS's fault. The affair is the WS fault and their choice on how to live their life.

How can you possibly be an affectionate loving husband while your wife is going out with another guy.

Can you be happy with an open marriage?

There are ways to stop an affair and being nice to your wife like you have been isn't working.

Are you sure this former coworker is divorced or just something your wife told you.

A MLC is no reason to have an affair. There are a lot of other ways to deal with it.

Does your wife even consider what she is doing as wrong? Does she even consider this an affair?

It is amazing how the WW can come up with all kinds of phrases to describe what they are doing to justify and rationalize the wrong into a right. You will never hear them say the word affair until they realize just what they are doing.

So what has your wife said she wants to do with the rest of her life. Marry this guy 11 years younger then her.

Does she really think this younger guy would marry her right now?

Sometimes you just have to burst the fantasy world of the affair.

Being without her is FAR better than being an emasculated, cuckold, non self respecting person. If I sound harsh, that is not my intent, but rather tell you it will never work that way, and someday you will really regret that you did this.

Grab what you have left of your self respect, and demand how it will be for any potential R. One such aspect is it's 100% NC with the POS co-cheater, and no guarantees you will continue/pursue R. These cheaters love to hedge their bets, so shoot that shit down pronto! Personally, and what I did was simply file for D. This way you start on the path toward your healing, and you can always "unfile" if and when you want/situation dictates. She is now the enemy of you, and should be treated as such.

Also, please do not as best you can break down in front of her. Many of these cheaters "get off" on this shit, as it reinforces their believe of the superior AP, or simply that they love to see people suffer/humiliated. These cheaters are spineless, selfish cowards, and NEVER allow them to dictate anything from their position of immorality and lack of integrity.

Might also research co-dependency as a possible issue with this toxic relationship. Personally, perhaps finding your anger, in tune with Fuck That Bitch (FTB), may be very helpful to knock you out of this destructive thinking process? She is outright disrespecting, humiliating, and softly ripping you to pieces... It all stops when you say it stops, and it is hard at times to know this.

Maybe if you have time, read below as a way to handle the situation (I am not the author):

Just Let Them Go

do I go proactive and try to 'nice' her out of the affair with a time limit in my own mind?

You can't nice her back, period. It never works. NEVER. And a time limit? She's been cheating for 2 years. What is the time limit you have in mind?

I agree with others - stop the weekly buddy buddy activities. You're not allowing her to feel what she's lost. She still has you in her life, as her friend, and she still has her boyfriend. She's lost nothing. Why would she change what she's doing?

So no, you don't invite her back. In fact, box up her things and tell her to come get them. She is with someone else. She doesn't live there anymore, so her things do not belong there. If she is with another man, then she is OUT. Her things belong out too.

I'm sorry - I know you were hoping for members to say that you should invite her home and then show her how wonderful you are, and she'll forget all about OM. That's fairy tale stuff. You cannot nice someone out of an affair. All being nice does is send the message that what they are doing is just fine. Get her things out of your home, and get her out of your life. She's got it all right now. What's her incentive to change?

I think you're seeing a pattern here in these replies. Many of us, including myself, tried in one form or another what you're talking about. I'm sorry to say this, but your marriage, WW or situation isn't anything different than ours. Human psychology doesn't change much from person to person I hate to tell you. My psychiatrist at the time taught me that. And he was spot on. Everything happened what he said would happen.

Listen to the people here, they know what they are talking about from experience. No contact and filing is the only way you will have a chance at saving this. You have to show her you are willing to end the marriage to have any chance of saving the marriage. Sounds counterproductive I know, but right now she doesn't respect you because she sees your emotions in front of her. She doesn't get that kind of weakness from her AP and that's more attractive to her right now. Women are attracted to confident men, plain and simple. Show her confidence in what your hard decisions are for her. I'm hoping you hit the anger stage soon because it does help.

For the past 3 months she has been staying in a friend's spare room.

Just curious, if the OM is so great, why isnt she living with him instead of a friends spare bedroom.

Why isnt she living in her own apartment?

Also, what is she telling her friends about her moving out. That you are fully to blame, you are an ogre and the worst human on the face of the planet.

She had to tell them something and I doubt she told them that golly gee, I'm fooling around with some young stud and had to move out of my own home.

Don't let her get away with lying about the real truth. Everything that you are doing and allowing her to do, enables and strengthens her affair. The opposite of what you wanted.

And two years is long enough for you to have to endure this disrespectful attitude and open marriage.

Do you still pay any of her bills? If yes, Stop.

Is the house in her name also...I think, but not sure, if the house is in her name also, she still has to pay half.

She needs to start paying for her fun times with the young stud. Kind of makes you wonder, why is this other guy divorced anyway, cheating on his wife.

Forget both the carrot and the stick. Stop altogether thinking in those terms.

This is about you and what you want. It's not at all about influencing her behavior.

I get that you want to R. The requirements for R just aren't in place yet, and they may never be.

Will you be better off with her living at home with your permission to cheat? If so, invite her home. If not, don't.

If you think you're better off with her at home with permission to cheat, you definitely need the 180 NOW.

D - don't

E - even

T - think

A - about

C - changing

H - her.

You deserve better than she's giving you, but you have to take action to change what you're getting. You can have a good life - but that's up to you.

What looks like a window of opportunity can be a recipe for more hurt. I tried the in house healing/separation and I just uncovered more shit in the process. I think she needs to WANT to come home and show you she deserves to do so before you even consider it.

My reasoning for possibly inviting her back home is I'd then be in a position to show her the affectionate loving husband I can be on a daily basis and hopefully fulfill the emotional needs that she's currently getting from the OM.

I can’t tell you what’s right for you, but here is part of my experience.

At my request, my WH said he would stay in the M. It was false R, but I didn’t know it. The MC recommended I do a trial separation to see how things would work out. I refused that idea, thinking if we ever do separate it won’t be temporary it will be permanent. I wasn’t ready for D.

In my efforts to improve our situation I made a commitment (to myself) to tell him something good about him or something he did every day. I did it faithfully, even on the bad days, for a long time thinking it was helping our M. But in reality it made me love and want him more while he was continuing his relationship with the AP. Now not only do I have to deal with the crap from the A, but I have to deal with the triggers it sets off when I try to tell him I appreciate something about him.

His love language is words of affirmation. I really want to give him what he needs, but frequently when I try I go spiraling back to the ‘Yeah I did that and he shit on me’ frame of mind and we are back at square one.

I long to love & be loved, but it’s so hard to let out the love I do have for him or accept the love he does show me as real.

I often wonder if it would be easier now if we would have separated then.

What can I say guys! Thank you each and every one of you for all your responses. I was welling up reading through them, partly because you're all telling me what I probably need to be told, and partly out of appreciation that each of you had taken the trouble to reply.

Although it is totally gut wrenching for me to have to read I do understand what you are saying and I have taken it all on board.

Just a few points and some replies to one or two posts.

I realise I have a problem with dependency (who wouldn't after 25 years in a relationship!), anxious attachment, fear of abandonment and low self esteem. Other than those few minor issues I'm a perfectly well rounded individual!

I have been receiving IC since D Day and I should probably be on ADs but I don't want to take them. I may reconsider if I get any lower. I've recommended my WW seeks IC as well (FOO issues) but strangely enough she doesn't seem to want to arrange it!!!

My self esteem is so low and my dependency so high that after the discovery of the affair I initially suggested to my WW we could have an open marriage before I had a word with myself!

That's exactly what I'd be offering her now and having read your replies I clearly see the error of my dependent thinking.

I haven't yet reached the anger stage. I think I'm probably scared to. Still just suffering the depression, anxiousness, tremors and emotional dysregulation. Not to mention the sleeplessness and nightmares. I have managed to not be emotional in front of WW for about 6 weeks now since I banned us from having hugs!

Craig2001 - in answer to some of your Qs.

I do admit that I hadn't been showing her enough love and affection for some time. The trouble was she never actually told me so I assumed she was, like me, content with the companionship aspect of our relationship. We never argued about anything and of course I now realise we were both afraid of conflict so resentments just built up gradually over the years.

The AP is divorced after his wife left him for another man and he's been living with his parents since he left his job. He has a problem with alcohol (following his divorce I believe) and having seen some of his texts to my WW he can be quite vitriolic.

WW doesn't have her own place yet as I guess she's weighing up her options. She did say she wanted some time to 'find herself' etc and doesn't think she'd end up married to the AP. My WW has very few friends and no girlfriends. We are both quite insular people. All her clothing & 'stuff' has been piled up in the dining room since DD awaiting a new home.

I've paid for everything over the last 25 years, including the house. More fool me...as I'm about to find out!

Although it's most likely too late, if I've learnt one thing it's the importance of communication in a marriage. Hopefully it's a lesson I may reap the benefits of next time...if there is a next time?

In the UK a divorce petition has to be served within 6 months for adultery, unreasonable behaviour etc so I have another couple of months to decide. If I leave it any later we then have to wait for 2 years separation before we can get divorced.

I'll update the thread as and when.

Thank you all again for your input. It is appreciated.

I guess it's now time to 'grow a pair'!

that after the discovery of the affair I initially suggested to my WW we could have an open marriage

What was your wife's reply to that?

Your wife does need IC. Many of the WW's on here have pointed to their FOO issues as a reason for their affairs...an underlying reason or cause.

Who is this OM bitter or criticizing, his ex or your wife in his texts?

It most certainly is not easy to up and change your life after so many years. Your wife is thinking you will be there when and if she decides young alcoholic is not for her.

Maybe it is time to tell her to grow up and realize what she is actually doing here.

And point out to her that every single time the OM is cutting down his ex-wife for leaving him, he is actually cutting down your wife, because that is exactly what she has done to you.

Make her think about that for a bit.

Your wife is being cruel and disrespectful. More than that, it borders on outright contempt. She feels sorry for you and keeps you around in case she needs financial help, or a soft place to fall if things go bad. If she developed a serious illness who do you think she would run to - sillyoldsod of course.

As you put it, grow a pair and start respecting yourself. You deserve better, so file for divorce and see if your wife gets off that fence.