SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I know a lot of you have been following my posts and sending a lot of encouragement. I can't tell you have many times I read through everything this weekend as I fought with my emotions and intense desire to just run back home to him. It gave me a lot of strength and helped me stay safe.

This is long but I hope I can get some advice on whether some of what he said is normal or not. I have not yet made a decision to file for D or not but am no way ready to start being together with him again until I analyze this. Thank you in advance.

Me leaving hit him pretty hard, he got sent home from work on Friday for breaking down and crying in the middle of his office hallway. He spewed a lot of negative things my way this weekend which I am shamed to admit I didn't react too maturely to. For a bit I thought he really didn't care and was not nice to him about that.

When we met up yesterday to have a discussion about whether I was filing for D today or not he was clearly not the strong man who didn't care and didn't want me to come back like he portrayed, he was an absolute wreck. Nothing at all got even a tiny bit violent thankfully but I did have several people on standby for if they didn't hear from me by certain times and we came up with some safe words. He just sat there calmly letting me read and ask questions and didn't say anything negative to me really during this time.

He spent all weekend reading through the forums I had sent him to, bought both "Just Friends" and "How to Heal your Spouse after an Affair" and is halfway through Just Friends. He also took the paper I wrote him up about what I need from him to heal and responded with this own things in writing. He admitted to several other secret accounts he has online which are for porn and gave me access even to his private journal but asked me to not read it as he has written letters to me in there when hes been very angry just to get it out and has put down dreams that involve other women I probably dont want to read about.

He also detailed his female relationships for me on paper. Yes he still has deep feelings for my "friend" the OW in his EA/attempted PA, it is what his IC appointments are about and why he doesn't share more of those appointments with me because he can't get over her. Claims he has created this fake person who looks like her in his head to escape hard realities and they are trying to dig away at why he has done this to help him dissolve it but even after 3 months he is yet able to do so, still has a deep infatuation with her and thinks about her all the time.He also has been somewhat leading on (by going to her with our problems when he is upset), he claims without realizing, a 19 year old coworker with a child who is very interested in him. He swears up and down he has no feelings for her and has backed away from it when she has tried to get more intimate with him but that she is a friend who he vents to about our relationship. I have to wonder if this isn't why hes come home from work angry at me, because he vents to this 19 year old who wants him and then she tells him how ridiculous I am or something. But I appreciated the honesty as I had no idea about her and would never have known.

He explained what he means by having "crushes" on a regular basis. Not crushes like with the OW where feelings get developed. But crushes like when he goes to a restaurant and there is a hot waitress he finds himself infatuated with her and will think about her for weeks sometimes and dream about her and develop a strong attraction to her. He said he never goes out of his way to talk to these people or see them and doesnt initiate anything online but he cant control his thoughts and it happens very regularly when he sees attractive women. I have no idea if this is normal or not.

I did get an apology letter that was very nice and honest. He apologized for a lot of things as well as explained he is trying to get to the bottom of why he has gotten himself to this place to prevent it from ever happening and trying to shift his guilt to remorse but is having a hard time doing it quickly. He agreed to be open and honest about any and everything I want, including everytime he has a "crush". Gave me access to his phone, removed passcode, will open any hidden programs, and gave me access to go through his entire pron collection if I wanted.

His main concern for me was that I can't tell him how to feel or what to think (obviously) and if I want him to be open I have to try and not get upset when he exposes something I might not want to hear as it will make it hard for him to learn how to be open.

We started discussing respect and boundaries, didn't get all the way through as I had to leave to go back to my friends, but I ended up being very concerned by where it ended. He contacted this girl who used to be his go to friend when him and his ex would fight. She worked at a strip club and he would go watch her dance and buy dances from her just to talk, said she never actually danced on him. Well he decided to seek her out on fb after a fight we had last year. He admitted this to me as the message was deleted. I told him to me that was completely inappropriate for a married man to do. He got defensive and argues with me for about 2 minutes before realizing what he was doing and stopping himself. To him it was a girl of his past he was friends with and I shouldn't have control over if he wants to talk to someone like that, that her profession has nothing to do with it an its very immature for me to get upset over. I told him he didnt have to agree with my view point but respect that as a boundary and agree not to do it out of respect for me. That if something is extremely important to him yet would cross a boundary for me, to come to me first and explain why its so important, worth crossing a boundary for me and causing pain and anxiety.

Oh we also agreed to get a new MC as the one we have isnt too helpful.

That was all we had time for yesterday.

This morning after sleeping on what he wrote me I don't know what to think. To me it feels like he is finally starting to do the work and his attitude is shifting but like its been said here, they could be crocodile tears and I am VERY weary.

Also hes been in therapy for 3 months and still can't get over the OW who he never really knew very well? That doesnt seem normal at all to me and if hes been trying for 3 months every single week, will he ever get over her? This gives me little hope and hurts like hell. I don't want him to even touch me thinking about this. Does it take other WSs significant time to get over their AP?

I agreed to respect his journal and not read it. I think its healthy for him to have some kind of outlet and don't feel the need to see any of that. I don't care about the porn accounts as pron has never been an issue for me, I enjoy it myself and we watch it together so yeah no issues there.

Is it normal for a guy to see a hot girl and think about her for weeks and have dreams about her on a regular basis and then write them down? I mean I do have thoughts/dreams about hot guys on occasion but not obsessively and it never impacts the way I view my relationship and I dont write it down. But I don't know, maybe that is normal behavior for a guy.

He honestly thought I want to be told every single time he develops a crush on some hot girl somewhere. I definitely do NOT want to know about those male thoughts unless it starts to impct our relationship in any way. Maybe because he thought he had to share every single thought about another woman is why hes been so angry and saying he cant do what Im asking?

What about the 19 year old? I don't want him around her anymore but she is a coworker and is being pushy with him and he doesnt have many other people to talk to about this all. I don't feel I have any say in that really though he did say he is distancing himself from her slowly and has told her he is not interested.

If he is going to get defensive about contacting old female friends who he had inappropriate relationships with and we just agree to disagree on our view points, is there a chance he will ever respect my boundaries?

Maybe his perspective is changing and maybe he really is trying in IC and I know people dont just change in just 3 months.

[This message edited by gottabeabiggirl at 12:42 PM, July 28th (Monday)]

He isn't remorseful, at all. I'm sorry, I know you wanted him to be, but he isn't. He hasn't let go of the fantasy, and in fact is creating new ones. He's defensive and thinks venting to a stripper and a 19 year old are acceptable means of dealing with issues.

If I were in your shoes, I'd file. I'd let him know that you don't want a man that creates fantasies about every woman he sees. I have enough male friends to know that having a sexual thought about an attractive female is normal. To think about them for weeks is definitely not. Creating a fantasy woman that looks like OW is NOT normal, and it won't help him get over her. He needs to wake up, grow up, and accept that he is just trying to escape. He hasn't done that. Confessing all of this is a good thing, but that doesn't change the fact that these things exist, and as long as they do, he isn't a safe partner.

So I say file. Push him harder. If he does wake up, ok. If he doesn't, you'll end up there anyway. Filing doesn't mean you actually divorce, and even if you do divorce you can still reconcile.

He seems like he has very poor boundaries, very immature and not sure of what he wants. Its scary to put your trust in someone like him IMO. Seems like he's always in a fantasy land and not living his real life very well. I think you should make a list of what's important to you, and really consider if he's meeting your needs. It almost seems like you may spend your life dealing with his issues.

I did make a list of my needs and gave it to him a few weeks ago. That is what he proceeded to respond to with his letter and how he would address my needs.

One of my needs was transparency so I could build my trust back with him, hence him spilling about the 19 year old and the way he gets these crushes.

I really think he has some deep seeded issues he has to work out and a lot of selfishness. I don't yet know if D is going to happen soon but every day it feels more like it to me.

He seems to messed up in the head and I am slowly starting to see that but still love him so dearly and its hard to separate the love from what is logically the best idea for me and my future.

I do think the fantasy thing is really weird and not normal. How can he get over her if he keeps revisiting that in uncomfortable times? I mean dealing with this has made everything uncomfortable so I guess it makes sense he has been thinking about her all the time if thats how he deals with it.

I honestly am so disgusted with him and what he thinks is appropriate. He still doesn't see any of this as cheating but recognizes it was for me. I don't know what to think about that.

And how do you file for D then stop it from happening? I don't need a lawyer to file the D as we have nothing shared and have only been married a short time but maybe I need to talk to someone to figure out how I could stop it if he comes around.

It appears to me that you are working much harder at this than he is, putting in much more effort. He continues to obsess about other women, and continues to pine over OW after 3 months. He objects to you "telling him what to feel or how to think" and does not want to deal with your emotions. If you were giving advice to another woman in this situation, what would you tell her?

I know we all have to work at our own pace and make our own decisions, but is this what you really want?

Sounds like he needs to shop for a better IC, regardless of what happens with your M. Someone who would really hold his feet to the fire on his fantasies and projections.

When we met up yesterday to have a discussion about whether I was filing for D today or not he was clearly not the strong man who didn't care and didn't want me to come back like he portrayed, he was an absolute wreck. Nothing at all got even a tiny bit violent thankfully but I did have several people on standby for if they didn't hear from me by certain times and we came up with some safe words. He just sat there calmly letting me read and ask questions and didn't say anything negative to me really during this time.

Sounds like the arrogant "F...kers fog" is lifting. Now you see the real person you married, low self-esteem looking for validation, now sucking his thumb, because mom caught him with his hand in the cookie jar.

If I could go back into time and re-live my WWs #1 affair pre-kids things would be so much different today. You dont have kids yet, this moment will define the rest of your life.

God bless your navigation.

Hi gottabeabiggirl. I have not read your previous posts but from this thread the first thing that struck me is it sounds like your WH is sexually obsessed. Sexual OCD does exist. I googled it quickly to get you a definition here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_obsessions

I'm NOT saying that your WH has it, but it's the very first thing that came to my mind because this:

Is it normal for a guy to see a hot girl and think about her for weeks and have dreams about her on a regular basis and then write them down?

is a no. That is not normal. This is obsessing to an extreme. Sure a hot girl can be on your mind for a little while, but not like this.

What about the 19 year old?

Even if he doesn't see it, it's an EA to say the least. He's confiding in her emotionally by talking to her about M issues whether they are real or contrived. Very BAD boundaries.

I do think the fantasy thing is really weird and not normal. How can he get over her if he keeps revisiting that in uncomfortable times? I mean dealing with this has made everything uncomfortable so I guess it makes sense he has been thinking about her all the time if thats how he deals with it.

It's totally weird and not normal. Your WH is obsessing even way past what a petulant teenager would do about a girl he couldn't get in high school. He has very poor emotional coping skills and he is going to continue to act out with these level of obsessions. At the very least, you are in for a lifetime of him having to deal with these issues and you always looking over your shoulder worrying about his baggage.

I'm not telling you to stay or go gottabeabiggirl. I think D is something that only you can decide. If you stay with WH you are going to have a lifetime of issues on your hands. Which is completely fine if you re willing to work with him on these issues. I don't know if you are planning on having any children or not, but these types of problems only become more difficult to deal with and are exacerbated when children come into the picture. The minute that you have your hands full with any type of major life event on your hands, are you going to be worrying about his coping mechanisms for his sexual obsessions the entire time you are going through big life events?

You are still very young and have a lifetime ahead of you. If you stay, I'm worried that you will regret it down the road. I have two daughters and if you were one of them I would seriously try and talk you out of staying with this guy. He needs to get well and you cannot do that for him. Maybe down the road if he gets well and proves himself. But with this type of character that he displays I'm afraid you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of heartbreak.

yop

Looking back on my own marriage after 7 months of IC, i can clearly see the signs were all there...i stayed because of the kids...found out recently he had PA and EA for over a year--yep that was ten yrs ago and i knew something was wrong- i flat out asked him about having an affiar...NO! NO! well for ten yrs as far as i am concerned he lied to....married for 27 yrs....if i were you- i'd think LONG and hard because life goes by way too fast and you are young and will find the strength to move on----don't settle----you will regret it.

Gottabe, I'm sorry but I'm going to go back to the age thing here. What does a 35 year old man have in common with a 19 year old, even if she has a kid and is more mature then most. What kind of life experience could she possibly bring that would attract your WH to her to talk about your marriage? Does it not concern you that he is still emotionally attracted (and I don't mean as in affair, although it very possibly turn into that given enough marital unsatisfaction) to a girl around the same age as you were when you met? She could almost be his daughter.

Look my WH objectified women, it came out after the affair that he visualised most women naked when he saw them. He thought this was reasonably normal, when I questioned it and did not agree, he brought the question here for feed back, got the idea it wasn't and has since worked on redirecting his thoughts if that happens to something like, I wonder what she does for a living or something. But the fantasising and dreaming and holding onto these women is extremely unusual in my opinion. It's not healthy to be with your wife and be doing this. And as for your friend, he is obsessed with a girl he barely knows... Do you really want to wait for him to get over her? At 25, is that how you want to be spending your time. This guy, even if he is capable, and to be honest, nothing in your post shows that to be particularly likely, is going to take a long time to get his shit together. That's a big investment on someone who was unfaithful to you before, during and after your vows. Who has never been particularly supportive of your physical issues and taking care of you, who turns this all on you to avoid feeling responsible and isn't proactive in giving up anything to make you feel safe. He doesn't have a right to friendships with old friends who are girls, especially those he has seen naked and only has to go visit her work to see her naked again.

Please think hard about if your love is really strong enough to withstand a man who does not feel the same for you and atm does not seem willing to try and see you for the amazing and beautiful gift that you are!

gbbg, you were not quite 18 when this 28 year old man went after you. He is now playing 'make believe' in his head with other women, and claiming the 19 year old is 'very interested'. What 19 year old wants a 35 year old? HE is the one that chases children and spends his days daydreaming about your friends.

I have to ask - at this point, knowing what you know - why are you even considering this man as a real option? He's a child in his head. He is still choosing children (19 years old) as his confidants, he is still dreaming of your bridesmaid, he is still claiming he didn't cheat.

BTW - him telling another woman he is in love with her, and mocking you for your injuries to her - IS CHEATING!!!

You are with a man that will never, ever grow up. At 28, you should have been off limits to him. As I said in a different post, a 17 year old girl should be of no interest to a 28 year old man. He is now 35, and he's picked a 19 year old girl to trust and use as a sounding board for relationship advice????

I'd bet anything that he hasn't backed off at all. I'd bet he told you to make you jealous and worry, and hope you come back because you don't want her to have him.

You know his behaviors are not normal. You know he has some serious issues and is mentally a teenager. What exactly do you expect from this teenager in a man's body? Do you expect him to suddenly grow up?

Give this some thought: You take him back. You and he go out to eat. The waitress is pretty. You wonder if he's suddenly pretending in his head that he and she are a couple, and you wonder how long she's going to get his head space. Sure, right now it seems reasonable to not need to know his crushes. How reasonable is it going to be when you're really living with this headcase, and you're wondering who he's pretending is his girlfriend this week. Mentally, he forms relationships with every pretty girl he sees. Do you know who else does this sort of things? 13 year old boys, that's who!!

You've moved out. Keep going. File for divorce. The clerk can tell you how to back out of it - but usually it's a simple as not going to the court date, or simply withdrawing the petition to divorce. But why would you?

You're contemplating having children one day. Do you want the father of your children to also be a child? One that refuses to grow up?

The bottom line is this: He is not capable of being faithful mentally. He thinks creating fake women in his head is the way to 'get over' another woman. How about this? HE IS MARRIED!!! The fact that any OW are taking his mental time is wrong. As long as he's hung up on her, he can't be the husband you need.

If you want your answer on how faithful he really is, have your friend text him. Have her say she's been talking to you, and she knows that you've moved out. Ask her to say that she didn't want to break up your relationship, but now that it's over, she wanted to let him know that the feelings were mutual, and that although she's sorry the marriage seems to be ending, she's wondering if he has any interest in getting together. You'll get your answer regarding your 'changed' husband fast enough.

Right now, your friend isn't interested. What are you going to do if the next one is? He's flat out telling you he's mentally with every woman he sees that is attractive. Are you seriously wondering if THAT is ok???

I'd go NC with him. Tell him as long as he's mentally single, you're not wasting your time, and go NC. You deserve better. You're 25. When you're 75, do you want your life to have been fun and full of love, or do you want it to have been a constant battle with a man-child?

[This message edited by painfulpast at 8:42 AM, July 29th (Tuesday)]

I need that clapping gif for Painfulpast's post. Everything she said was spot-on, perfect.

God I know you are all right... he has such huge issues. He admitted to me last night how he knows this, how he knows he shouldn't have talked to that girl at work, but that he never realizes this stuff before there is a problem. He knows talking to that ex-stripper/friend was not ok, how him talking for years behind my back with my friend was not ok. Hes been reading more books about how to be adult emotionally and how to have boundaries, didn't defend himself, just admitted he knows. First time he has done that.

He just sat there crying and shaking as I told him I'm pretty sure we have to divorce he has too many issues and there is no excuse for why he is still infatuated with this fantasy person and obsesses over women everywhere. He just kept asking me for more time, to be patient while he fixes himself, that he is trying but it takes time. But that he understands that I deserve better and would sign the papers if thats what I really want to do.

I broke, cried, hugged him, slept with him, hated myself. Know if its possible to fix his issues it will take forever. I don't know if a 35 year old man can truly change, I don't. But I do know its ridiculous for me to stay and put up with his childish behavior.

I just dont know how to find the strength to walk away. I am such a weak, weak person when it comes to this man and my heart.

If I may be bold enough to assert my opinion here, you're so weak for this man because he snatched you at a vulnerable age, and formed an unhealthy attachment with you- what you now consider 'real love' to be. But really, like what others have said, it is not normal for a 28 yr old man to be looking in the pool of 17-18 yr olds to date. That's odd behavior and a big red flag.

You are soooo young. You are well spoken and seem to have a lot going for you personally. Please consider very carefully if you want to spend your precious years riding a dangerous, unhealthy, draining, emotional roller coaster with this man. Love does not have to be this hard or hurt this much.

[This message edited by TimeToGo2014 at 12:23 PM, July 29th (Tuesday)]

I just dont know how to find the strength to walk away. I am such a weak, weak person when it comes to this man and my heart.

You are this way because he groomed you to be this way.

I'm with the others who have posted, you need to continue with filing for divorce. That doesn't mean The End of your relationship. He can still fix his broken self and come back to you. If he isn't willing to do that, then he wasn't worthy of being married to anyway.

He manipulates you with his words and does a lot of TALKING. What ACTIONS has he taken? He told you he broke down at work and was sent home. But he is a liar who says things to manipulate you. Don't believe it unless you personally see it with your own eyes.

Oh we also agreed to get a new MC as the one we have isnt too helpful.

I'd stop marriage counseling altogether. Your husband has too many issues he needs to work on in IC before marriage counseling will do any good.

Are you in IC?

I just dont know how to find the strength to walk away. I am such a weak, weak person when it comes to this man and my heart.

You have a chance right now that many, many of us who bought a home and/or had children with the person who betrayed us would have killed for - you got a chance to see who this person really is. Many of us didn't get to see that until much, much later when things were far more complicated and extricating ourselves from the situation was far more difficult.

Just like the first time you go to the gym or try a new activity, it's going to suck, and you're going to suck at doing it. But if you push through, it'll get easier.

If you do not walk away from this person right now, you will spend the rest of your life with him (however long that may be) in a constant state of anxiety, fear, doubt and self-loathing until he cheats on you again. You will never again have a moment's peace. If you walk away, you will get the chance to be happy again. If you stay with him, you may also get the chance to be happy but (1) it won't be with him and (2) it may be a hell of a long time down the road and the situation may be far more complicated.

Choose happiness and choose yourself. Walk away.

gottabe.

I know you don't want to - but i think you SHOULD read his journal.

He has committed his contemporaneous fellings here, and you will get an insight into his emotions at them time.

Hopefully this will give you the resolve to break free of his troubled self.

you wont like it, and he is counting on your fidelity

Since my SLAWH is a sex addict, I'm very sensitive to certain behaviors that, to me, signal either an addiction or a predilection for one. Your WH seems to have those markers--just from what you've written. If nothing else, it's worth exploring so that both of you can understand what might be driving his behavior.

There's a great website created by the leading researcher on sex addiction, Patrick Carnes, called sexhelp.com. It has a test he can take (or that you can read and see if he fits the profile enough to research more about it). Porn use, obsessive thoughts about sex and women, poor boundaries, objectification of women, low self-esteem and behavior he doesn't seem to WANT to engage in but is almost irresistibly drawn to.

If the SA label fits him, it'll be a starting point for any true recovery to be possible. An SA doesn't find sexual release (so much) in sex, he finds a release from the pain or anger or boredom or anxiety or whatever that is pummeling him at the moment.

There's also a thread here at SI for the spouses of sex addicts. The first pages have lots of resources to read; the other pages have lots of advice and support.

Hugs!

[This message edited by RippedSoul at 12:31 PM, July 29th (Tuesday)]

Thanks to everyone so much. I feel so weak and silly and mad at myself, coming here and having somewhere to vent this and find support is keeping me sane right now.

I am in IC, every Thursday. He is in IC as well every Thursday. We have our last MC today and I don't plan on having anymore sessions with her, possibly not with anyone at this point.

Reading his journal is an interesting idea but I don't think I could do it. I'm not sure he would truly give me access to it even if I did want to. But I am afraid I will never be able to get those things out of my head if I read them and don't think I can handle the hurt. Maybe it is what I need to push me to really get away but I really, really don't want to.

I am going to look in to the sex addict resources, thanks for those. He is an avid porn user, as far as I know once a day if not several times a day I just never had an issue with it since we still were active and it didn't seem to impact our sex life. But yeah I do think he has some kind of addiction problem and not being able to say no to things. He is an alcoholic and can't go more than a day or two without drinking or he gets very unpleasant. I can at least direct him to that info so he can fix himself.

What a horrible, horrible mess. I am grateful though I found this out now instead of later becase you are all right, I do have a chance to come out of this with a lot of potential to be happy and free of him with nothing tying us together aside from marriage.