SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I've been bringing this up in lots of other posts, because I'm kind of an egocentric thread-jacker, so I thought I'd start my own thread.

Does anyone else wish their spouse acted more like an AP?

The years leading up to my WW's PA with our daughter's softball coach (and family friend) saw a steady decrease in romance and intimacy of all kinds. As I've posted elsewhere, my wife lost much of her sexual desire quickly and it just got worse as the marriage progressed. When you are trying to avoid sexual contact, you avoid other romantic or intimate contact as well (don't want to start down that path toward f--king, after all), so there was little hugging and virtually no kissing other than a chaste peck when we left for work.

But my desire for my wife never waned, and I, throughout the marriage, tried to kindle a spark. Routine is the enemy of passion, so I tried to mix things up (weekends away, date nights, etc.) She enjoyed all that time with me, but it never kicked in to increased flirting or playfulness.

I had genuinely resigned myself to a marriage that would never be particularly gratifying in that way. Several nights a week with my computer and a tissue became my sex life.

At her company's 2013 Xmas party, I saw that other side of her again, though. She had a few cocktails (but was not drunk) and was funny, physical, and even flirty with her female coworkers (I've long suspected she's bi-curious, but she would never act on that). Little did I know that at the time she was in the middle of her affair with our daughter's softball coach. (I guess her libido had been sparked) When I discovered their texts the day after Xmas, I literally had to read them 3 or 4 times to understand what I was seeing. She was graphically offering to perform sex acts she wouldn't do with me. She was reminiscing about their last encounter. Frankly, she was being the sexual aggressor! In other words, not only was this guy f--king my wife, he was f--king the version of her I had given up on ever seeing again!

Then the usual: D-day, remorse, MC, some HB (that ended too damn early). Now she's open, transparent, and remorseful. But she's back to "proper" wife. I get it, she's trying to be a "good" person, and for her "good" =/= sexy.

It was already such a blow to my self-esteem that she was willing to just sleep next to me with zero contact night after night, then at the first opportunity run out to screw in a car on a public street with him. To turn down my advances, yet spend days texting to find a time they could hook up. Thing is, now I know that other side of WW is still there, somewhere. And she won't share it with me. So even though in so many ways our marriage has improved, when we go a couple weeks with no lovemaking, I fall right down that rabbit hole again. Hey, I've posted about a dozen times on SI this week -- you can probably guess what that says about the current state of our love life!

Anyone else feel this? That you want to experience a little of "Affair" spouse? Or is this just my jealousy talking?

This was my major need from my WS after his A. And I never got it. He actually had the gall to say that he respected me too much! Yes, I feel ripped off. And this aspect of the A makes me feel "less than" more than any other aspect of the A.

I'll give just one example (a little graphic):

WW was in charge of the snackbar at our local softball fields where our daughter plays (and OM coaches). This meant lots of night-time trips to restock for the weekend. I usually went along because it involved lugging cases of soda and water, etc. Please note I never volunteered; I just went for her safety and to be helpful. Since we were the only two there, and we could lock the door, I occasionally tried to get her to fool around; what a cool memory it would be, I thought, every time she worked that snackbar, to know we had made love there. Of course, I was shot down every time, because I was being so inappropriate. I don't remember if she literally said "Gross!" but that was certainly the message.

Guess where she first hooked up with OM? Yep. And it gets worse. They made out and she blew him in that snackbar. During the day. While the teams, including her own daughter, were practicing on the field outside!

And then, it might get even worse. One of the texts she sent him offered to let him "come in her mouth" to "feel better" after his bad day at work. In 3 years of dating and 20 years of marriage, she's never been open to that with me. She's a "dodger." Well, I doubt she "dodged" in the snackbar and let him shoot all over the floor. She still denies that she ever swallowed him, but I will literally never believe that to be true.

So, to sum up, making love to your husband in the snackbar late at night with no one around? Inconceivable. Blowing a married man at 4:00 in the afternoon while other people, including children, are just outside the building? She was down for it.

When I've pointed out to WW how incredibly hurtful that is, she literally doesn't know what to say or do other than "I'm sorry." She never offers to balance that painful memory with a better one somewhere else. And every time I'm at that goddamned field I can't not think about it.

Wow, I'm in a bad place today. Goddamn this stuff.

Oh I was all over WH for sharing that side of him with them when he was having a hard time being sexually open with me. I regularly brought up our sex life for discussion, does he want to try anything different, is what we're doing working for him, etc. and always outside the bedroom so that it would be less threatening. But he found it horridly awkward and would skirt the discussion as quickly as possible.

The A and aftermath have blown the doors off that. Oh, this conversation makes you uncomfortable? I'm uncomfortable that you had far more explicit conversations with someone else, so suck it up, we're discussing this.

It's worked out alright. I imagine your WW may be ashamed of how she sexually acted out and now staying as far away from it as possible. Bring it up for discussion- make sure she knows that you don't view her being more aggressive sexually as a trigger, and that you would like to see that side of her more. See what she has to say. or if you've already done that, do it again- can't hurt to reinforce it.

Hope things improve.

Thanks, ncharge -

I think concepts like "good wife" and "respect" absolutely get in the way of this. "Good" spouses don't f--k in a parked car on a public street. When mine did that with her AP, she was being "bad." Now she wants to be "good."

But then I tell her that kind of thing is exactly what I would like, too. That it would help me feel less devalued by the whole A. And it goes nowhere.

I mean, how do you not take that as "You're just less desirable"?

[This message edited by hikingwithkoda at 3:31 PM, March 27th (Friday)]

I don't think it's jealousy talking.

I ended up asking WH "why not with me"? It's not like I'm shy or not willing to try things so I couldn't figure it out. And to this day I haven't gotten a why from him.

I don't want the "affair" spouse. He was extremely selfish and would say anything to get what he wanted from women. But it would be nice to have the level of attention that he gave them.

I think sometimes, and speaking for myself only, we want the piece of them that they gave to someone else. We want to feel that level of desire.

And for me, I think I want to OWN what WS and AP did together. IF WH and I can do together what he did with her, damn I'm gonna be better and it's gonna be hotter and he's gonna know EXACTLY what is on the line here. Sometimes I think my sex with WH is only happening because it's a big Fuck You to the OW. Hey, whatever gets you through, I guess.

I can't let them have had anything that is denied me (unless it's actually something I don't want like spanking - ew!)

Let the WS's squirm.

Are you in MC? Can this be addressed there?

YES! He gave his "19 year old" too her and not me. He also gave her some of our personal special activities (stupid things, like bumping against each other when we pass) and now I can't handle that. He gave her his lust, then withheld that from me for a year until he was out of the fog. He gave her sexting (some 4000 texts in 2 months) and he won't with me. He had the awesome feelings that come with a new relationship - the limerance - knowing that someone wanted him and was infatuated with him and thought he was wonderful and I haven't had that in 15 years and never will again. He even had that magical first kiss that I will never have. And we could have had it again. I believe it is possible. But, he doesn't like to kiss. I get pecks. I'm having trouble with all of that. Because of the lack of love for me, not because of the infatuation with her. I get that part of it. I can't get past the long-term detachment from me while he got his head out of his a$$. If it is out.

brokenyrs:

I think sometimes, and speaking for myself only, we want the piece of them that they gave to someone else. We want to feel that level of desire.

In one sentence, you perfectly captured what I tried to convey with my long-ass posts. Thank you.

I think sometimes, and speaking for myself only, we want the piece of them that they gave to someone else. We want to feel that level of desire.

Let me assure you that you do NOT speak just for yourself. That sums up one of the few, but major, roadblocks we face in rebuilding from this shitstorm WW created.

The worst, even when treated that way, how do you know it is genuine passion/desire, or faking it to keep plan B alive?

how do you not take that as "You're just less desirable"?

Unfortunately, there's no other way to take it.

It's just the plain truth of it.

My fWW finally admitted it. She married me for "other reasons", not because she was attracted to me sexually.

I had "good qualities"... I was reliable, able to make a good living, a dedicated christian, she knew I would be a devoted and loving husband and father.

But I didn't "trip her trigger".

The worst, even when treated that way, how do you know it is genuine passion/desire, or faking it to keep plan B alive?

The preponderance of the evidence. Our WSs wouldn't give up a fucking episode of "Wheel of Fortune" to spend nookie time with us, but when AP came along, they are willing to risk EVERYTHING to enjoy those fleeting moments.

It is clearly, unabashedly, beyond reasonable doubt, "plan B" that we are. Not only following the affair, but BEFORE we married the con artist who LIED then just like they LIE now.

[This message edited by tfkeel at 4:26 PM, March 27th (Friday)]

"The worst, even when treated that way, how do you know it is genuine passion/desire, or faking it to keep plan B alive?"

Exactly! I am convinced I'm Plan B. He didn't want to lose the lifestyle I provide. If the WS can't even kiss us like he/she kissed the AP, do they really love us or are they back for other reasons?

Big hurdle!

do they really love us or are they back for other reasons?

No, they are clearly "back" for other reasons. Just like they have been here ALL ALONG for other reasons.

Interesting enough, I just wrote a PM similar to this. I was the one being turned down most of our marriage. I got eye rolls or scoffs at different suggestions. It seemed like it wasn't a high priority, so I figured he was cerebral and accepted that he wasn't red-hot blooded.

I think desire is a huge piece along with the time and effort that was invested.

In the chat logs for one week, he had complimented COW about her hair, her scarf, being hot, running a good meeting, etc. I remember after reading the conversations asking him when was the last time you complimented me? Neither he or I could remember a SINGLE time! (Isn't sad that I cannot remember 1 compliment from my husband?) I asked him if he had a nickname for me. Nope. His nickname was "Sexy" and he heard it everyday. At one point, I knew the amount of hours he invested into his week-long affair chats and text messages and it was something like 20+ hours just in electronic communications! So I asked him, when have you ever given either me or your kids 20+ hours of time in a normal week? Again, we couldn't recall any memories, except for times we were on vacation. Imagine where our marriage could have been if he had invested that time into us or MC or reading a book?

I have posted this before, is if from Dr Sue Johnson's blog. (No soliciting)

Looking back we were never in the "Synchrony" stage. I think our sex life deteriorated to "Sealed-off". His A was also sealed off and avoidant. Yeah, they talked a big game and even went through with some of it, but it ended up being empty and pathetic. Interestingly, when light was shed on the A WH was so embarrassed by his choice of AP and how he managed his job, he did not want anyone to know. It is like the beer goggles come off.

I guess what I am trying to say, but not very succinctly, is that if you can build true intimacy and honest communication then you will have such a better rewarding sex life wherever and whenever you want. (Not some creepy blow job next to the blow pops. )

We did have HB and it was by far the most honest we had ever been and therefore, it was very intense and intimate. Unfortunately it did not last, but I do hang on to that glimpse of what it could be like someday...

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:09 PM, March 27th (Friday)]

I am afraid I must agree with others on this thread.

What's killing me is that my WW had an affair to "feel desired" and to "feel sexual and alive" simultaneously while rejecting my desire for her. Now that the jig is up, I fear she doesn't understand that after all the bullshit she out me through, I want to feel desired, feel sexual and alive.

I'd almost suspect she was a self-centered narcissist.

I think sometimes, and speaking for myself only, we want the piece of them that they gave to someone else. We want to feel that level of desire.

I understand the hurt behind this notion, but no, I never want him to treat me like that.

People confuse drama for genuine passion all the time. What my wh had with his APs wasn't real, or genuine. What they had was born out of mutual dysfunction, lies, deceit, a general desperation, and a using of each other that has no place in a healthy relationship.

I think what people might want is what they had as an illusion. What it looked like they had.

Healthy, happy, GOOD people can have passionate, exciting sex. Your wife wanting to fill some bullshit role of good really speaks to how deep her self esteem issues run. Boring does not equal good. Sometimes good gets boring but those two statements have completely different meanings.

Being loyal, loving, and happy doesn't equate to boring or restricted. And I can't have any of those things if he treats me like his AP. I'm not a tool he uses to get off with, I'm his partner in life.

I think it's dangerous to idolize any A behavior and want it for yourself. It's confusing to an already warped Wayward. You want a more exciting sex life? That's fine, but no matter how it seems, that's NOT what they had.

my WW had an affair to "feel desired" and to "feel sexual and alive"

That's not why she cheated, that's just the excuse she is using because she doesn't know better yet.

Sounds like she was trying to fill a lack of internal validation with some unhealthy external validation.

When she finds her real reasons you will understand why it's not a personal rejection of you or that that guy had anything better than you have. You and he can't be compared. He'll never be what you are. You don't want that. What you want is the real deal.

I too am dealing with this issue in a big way. On the time just before EA/PA WH wanted no part of me. I always initiated and he always had an excuse. Obviously this became worse during the A and our sexlife all but died. I was lucky if it was once a month. After he ended A ( without my knowledge) this pattern continued and stayed that way for 3 1/2 years. I was so desperate, I threatened him with cheating. I could not understand why I would go out and get hit on by other men on a daily basis, yet my own H didn't want me. I cried to him, to my mom and to my freinds. I begged him and still nothing. Always excuses. Fast forward to DDay 11/16/14( 4 years after PA) and HB ensued. It was what I had always wanted, so I went with it, mind movies and all. I often feel like how in the hell am I even doing this with someone who hurt me so bad but my need to be desired takes over. That said, lately I have been feeling so sad about the fact that the whole time I wanted him, he wanted someone else. PA was only a few months but he claims that afterwards he felt too guilty to be with me. WTF ? He took to a life of porn and self pleasure and was ok with that. Why couldent he desire me as much as he did her? I mean he went out of his way to do so, expensive hotel rooms and all. Why am I not that special? Why did I not excite you like that. He would call or text her at random and say " hey, you wanna go to a hotel, let's get a room come on". All the while he had a beautiful wife who wanted him waiting at home. Just another shitty fact in this shitty situation we have all found ourselves cast into.

When I've pointed out to WW how incredibly hurtful that is, she literally doesn't know what to say or do other than "I'm sorry."

And hearing I'm sorry repeatedly gets old too. Sometimes it's just not enough.

We have been through this too. My husband was too ashamed of his actions to get much more than I'm sorry out. I knew he was sorry, as well as ashamed. He had hot sex with hookers. I could never be that. For a while, I tried to be because I thought that was what he wanted.

The only way we could have a productive discussion about this was in MC, where he felt safe. I also felt safer there, and I'm sorry just didn't cut it there. We are still working on it. It is very difficult as the BS to he past what they did with the AP. It plain sucks.

Maybe this is something you should bring up in MC.

I'm sorry you are going through this.

Edited to add that when I first saw your username, I thought it read hikingeithVODKA....if we don't laugh, we just may go crazy. Just a little Friday evening humor.

[This message edited by boontje at 6:53 PM, March 27th (Friday)]

BtraydWife, that's a really good point. It was cheap and tawdry, not deeply passionate. But some of us have been so starved for desire and passion that cheap and tawdry still sounds better than boring and disinterested. One night we waited in the car while our daughter had softball practice. We had over an hour with nothing to do. We were parked just over from the street where she banged him in his wife's minivan.

So we played solitaire on our phones.

Is it possible for someone to be that clueless?

ILINIA, "blowjob by the blowpops" is now going to pop into my head every time I look at that goddamned snack bar. Thank you SO much for that! Laughter is the best way to defuse darkness!

boontje, I am not averse to hiking with vodka; I'd just be afraid of getting lost.