SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I wish I found SI a long time ago. Maybe I wouldn't have made so many mistakes.

Quick background... first marriage I was in my early 20's. He cheated and we got divorced. I didn't marry again for nine years. I discussed with WH what happened in my first marriage, and he was quick to assure that if there was one thing he knew, he would never ever cheat - he couldn't - my XWH was not a real man because a real man doesn't cheat, etc, etc. Also, his dad cheated on his mom and it tore their family apart and he knew he would never do that to his family.

Two and half years ago, we were having an argument. Things had been bad for quite a while. I asked him time and time again to go to MC but he refused. This argument was different though. He mentioned "some woman I met." From his description, I knew it was an EA. Had been going on for 2-3 months. I told him it was an EA and he said there is no such thing. I told him how it can lead to a PA and again he dismissed me. I asked him to stop contact with her -he said no. I asked to meet her (figuring if there was nothing going on he would say sure). He said no. At that point I knew that he knew he was doing something inappropriate and was going to continue to do it. During our argument (before this came to light) I realized he had made some good points and told him I would make some changes. Yes, pick me, pick me only I didn't even know it at the time. I have made changes - big changes - but apparently that didn't matter at the time. This is DDay 1 and when I wish I had found SI. We continued to have "discussions" about this woman and many of them turned ugly. He said very hurtful things to me and of course lied about a lot.

Two and half weeks ago, he was in a frenzy. Apparently work spoke with him as he was not performing at the level they expect, and NOW he decides to go for IC. But there was more. Apparently OW's H found out about them. He had taped their phone conversations and she had called WH freaking out. That's when I said you are still in contact with her? He said he hadn't been in contact with her for months prior to that call. But I felt something was still not right. He was too concerned about phone calls. That's when I asked if he had any physical contact with her. He refused to answer. Over the next couple days I continued to ask. He finally answered "no, but I have to say yes". WTF does that even mean? I pressed on and he finally admitted that they had sex. Twice. At her house. Other than that he has only admitted to kissing and hugging her. So I asked in what world does sex equate to "no but I have to say yes?" I told him to sleep in the spare room that night and he said we'll talk about it. I went to bed first and wrapped myself in the blankets like a burrito to make sure he got the hint. He didnt'. He got in bed and pulled the covers away from me. At that point I started the argument and told him to go in the other room. He said no, this was his bed, he paid for it and he's staying. I knew all I had to do was make him talk about something he didn't want to admit and he would walk away (like he always did) and he did. He's been in the spare room ever since. Lately he says being in the other room just creates distance and maybe he'd find out he likes that. I told him maybe he would but he can't come back in my bed. Not yet. Bed is my sanctuary - my rest - my peace - where I recharge and relax and I can't do that with him next to me. This was DDay 2 and when I found SI.

I am like everyone else - barely sleep or eat, cry a lot, can't focus. I do my best for my 13 year old son. WH actually had a discussion with him in a child friendly way to let him know what he did. I am just trying to make sure my son feels safe and loved, and to have this impact him as little as possible.

I don't know what will happen. I don't know that WH wants to fix this. He says he's confused as the OW was his dream woman. I told him it's all fake and he only sees her that way due to his vulnerability. BTW, the OW's H apparently cheated on her first. This makes me even angrier with her - she knows what it feels like to have her family destroyed by cheating and yet she does it to another family? To me??? WTH is wrong with her! Don't get me wrong, WH is at fault for what he did to me and my family, but it takes two to cheat. Why couldn't she just pick some single guy? Why ruin my family too? I am the only spouse out of the four of us that hasn't cheated and I'm in the dark. I know very little about them. I got a first name (for the second time - the first time he admitted he lied about it) but he refused to tell me her last name. He has answered every other question I asked. He has agreed to no contact and to tell me if there is. I also told him if his unable or unwilling to abide by NC, he should have enough respect for me to tell me so because it will change my outlook.

WH is going to IC. I am looking for a therapist (the first one I chose isn't accepting new patients). At some point I assume we will go to a session together but I don't see the point in that if he's still confused as to what he wants. I feel like I'm drowning. Like this isn't my life. WH says he wants to work on things - that's why he's still here. I know he's trying. He doesn't walk away when the conversation gets tough. I know he's hurting as he had a bit of a breakdown he other day when the enormity of what he has done finally hit him. And I made him feel better. Why do I even care how he is?

I know this is rambling but my thoughts just never stop on this. It is exhausting and upsetting. I am just trying to use the resources here to help me figure this out. There are a lot of issues that led up to this which we have been discovering and discussing. He feels it may just be too much to handle. I just don't know. Thanks for reading.

((Hugs))

BetterTimesAhead,

You have been heard.

From what you have posted, it sounds like your WH has been involved with the OW for over 2.5 years. This in my opinion, is a LTA (long term affair). He is admitting to minimal physical sex? I have a hard time believing that. Cheaters will lie and minimize.

Have you taken a look at the healing library? Upper left yellow box above Dr. Phil. Lots of good information there.

Ensure you are staying hydrated, getting some exercise and get some protein shakes to sip on. You need to be healthy for your children.

It maybe a good time to contact a lawyer, not to file, but to gain some knowledge of what divorce looks like for you in your particular situation.

Others will be along to give better advice soon.

Thank you both for the replies.

I have already contacted an attorney about my options. I am not currently working and this causes me concern. I've been home for the past seven years but worked before that.

If WH isn't lying, then this has been a sporadic affair. He says he would run into her here and there and they'd talk. Then they exchanged numbers and there was texting and phone calls. About 1 1/2 years in was the PA. Not too much contact since then. So yes long term about 2 years. I asked why he stopped at two times. He said he realized it wasn't right. I know this has been weighing on him since he started because he hasn't been sleeping and he was losing a lot of weight. I know he feels the guilt. I am trying to believe him about the details. He always seemed like such a trustworthy person which is why this floored me. I realized there was always the possibility he would do many things that I wouldn't like but I honestly thought, due to my history and his, that he would never and could never do this.

He is like a different person since DDay 2. Complete 180 in his personality. He is much more pleasant to me. He actually spends time at home. And with me. He is helping me out more. He has conversations with me and doesn't walk out when it gets difficult. All of this, I hope, means he is at least making an effort. However, he says he wants a guarantee that all this hard work will mean we will work out. I told him there are no such guarantees. He doesn't want to do the work without knowing the outcome. Sorry, can't give you that. He's always been that way. He said the same thing about marriage which makes me believe he was never all in to begin with. I told him it can't be that way this time. You need to be fully committed, all in, balls to the wall in this or it has no chance. So far it seems we are headed in a good direction but it is only 2 1/2 weeks and I am still angry, hurt and sad. We shall see.

BTA, do you have full access to his phone, email, social media, etc.? Did you witness him contact the OW and tell her he's going NC? If not, he's confused because she's still involved with him. He might not be giving you her last name because he doesn't want you contacting the OBS. Make this a requirement for you staying in the marriage.

If he told you her OBS cheated first, it's very likely a lie. There are BSes here whose WS said they cheated first when they never did. Speak to OBS yourself and out her to him as well.

He does not use social media - rarely uses email. I have looked at his phone and can see it anytime I like but frankly he deletes everything as soon as he reads it so there is nothing for me to see. He doesn't store her number in his phone. He has agreed to not open any texts from her - I will do that and I will answer. He will not answer any calls from her and will tell me if she called (claims she won't leave a voice mail). He also claims the OWH wrote AP letters admitting his affairs and WH has read them. He believes there is no way AP would contact him now because her H would find out since OWH recorded her calls. He doesn't want to give me the last name because he doesn't want me to do anything stupid. Told him that's not his decision to make. We are continuing discussions on that. Don't know yet if that is going to be a dealbreaker for me yet or not. We have a long way to go and I am taking it day by day. Neither one of us has been happy for a long time and we have already discovered so much to work on but I don't know that it can be fixed. I don't know that he's willing. I don't know that I can get over this. Too much unknown at this time.

I am sure that I am not the only SI member who reads your last post and thinks that your husband is minimising the extend of the affair. And you, hoping that you can rebuild this marriage are hopeful that his “sex only twice “ statement is correct.

One of the saying here is “ don’t trust anything they say and less than 50% of what they do”.

It’s very nice of him to be pleasant to you and not leave the room when it’s difficult .

Unfortunately that’s not good enough.

You would recognise what “ truly sorry “ looks like, and this is just not it.

Read about the 180.

Find your self worth and respect .

The healing library is very good and I can also recommend “ leave a cheater, gain a life “.

Post a lot here . Hoping that you can safe the marriage clouds your objectivity. Some members here have helped me a lot by providing a realistic look at my situation when I was high on “hopium “

He doesn't want to give me the last name because he doesn't want me to do anything stupid. Told him that's not his decision to make. We are continuing discussions on that. Don't know yet if that is going to be a dealbreaker for me yet or not.

In order to work towards achieving successful reconciliation, you must have complete honesty and transparency from him. His withholding information means he is providing neither. I'm betting her BS has even more information about their affair and your WS doesn't want you to be able to compare notes. Otherwise, there's no reason to keep their names from you.

It most definitely would be a deal breaker for me.

I'm very sorry you have to be here with us. I am sorry to say, but to me it sounds like your WH is still gaslighting you.

He doesn't want to give me the last name because he doesn't want me to do anything stupid.

This is very telling. It is not up to him anymore to decide what you can do.

And 1 year and sex only twice sounds like BS to me. My fWW had essentially a 2.5 month EA that turned EA at the 2.5 month mark and the A was over less than 2 months later and they had sex 3 times and he lived multiple states away.

I am only telling you this so you can see the gaslighting and minimizing he is doing to you.

I wish you the best.

I'm not sure I believe anything he says right now. And I honestly have very little hope. The fact that he is not sure what he wants shows me that he is not all in at this time. I am willing to try because I know I made mistakes in the marriage as did he. Although he claims I "drove him" to this I let him know that is not the case. I was just as unhappy as he was and I didn't cheat. He made a choice. Every time he said it "happened" I correct him and say no, it didn't happen, you chose to do that. I remind him that every text, every phone call, every contact in any way was a choice he made.

I can see how poorly we both behaved in our marriage and how badly we needed MC many years ago (which I asked for many times and he refused to go). For that reason I would be willing to work on it if he can meet my requests (which I'm still working on). If he can't then I know he just doesn't care to put in the work. I also want to try for my son because he deserves better. I won't stay in a bad marriage for him but I want to at least consider trying again if, and only if, WH totally commits, tells me the whole truth and does what I ask. But no, at this time it doesn't look hopeful.

I have pulled up the 180 and am reading it now.

He doesn't want to give me the last name because he doesn't want me to do anything stupid. Told him that's not his decision to make. We are continuing discussions on that. Don't know yet if that is going to be a dealbreaker for me yet or not.

Or he is fearful that you will contact the OBS (other betrayed spouse) and will find out more information about his A?

It might be a good time to tell him you need him to write a detailed timeline of the affair, so that when/if you do ever communicate with OBS and compare notes, you will know what is right in the zoo.

These two things just do not jive:

I have looked at his phone and can see it anytime I like but frankly he deletes everything as soon as he reads it so there is nothing for me to see.

He doesn't store her number in his phone. He has agreed to not open any texts from her

However, he says he wants a guarantee that all this hard work will mean we will work out. I told him there are no such guarantees.

Yes, he wants a guarantee that you will accept whatever effort he manages to put in. In other words, a guarantee of rug sweeping this whole mess.

I honestly have very little hope. The fact that he is not sure what he wants shows me that he is not all in at this time.

I would not wait on him to decide. If he's not all in now, then move on without him. If you show him you are willing to wait, then he won't be in any hurry to choose.

I am willing to try because I know I made mistakes in the marriage as did he.

It doesn't matter if you made mistakes. Your choices did not drive him to cheat. He made that choice on his own. He's just pointing the finger at you because it's easier than accepting responsibility for himself.

Again, you can't reconcile with somebody who doesn't take full responsibility for their choices.

Not giving her name most definitely would be a deal breaker for me.

This. This. 1000 times this. My WH was (is?) a lying, cheating, manipulative, deceitful bastard to me and one of his best friends (the OBS)- and he did this not telling me things (I knew who the AP was but the rest was pretty much a lie) after being found out the first time, for a whole additional year. He did not want to let me know about any of this - and I caught him - he did not confess. He acted like a huge _________________ (fill in whatever profanities you'd like). He told me I was crazy, actually set out "decoys" and used technology to lead me astray - he was a complete scumbag. That being said...

When confronted, he told me a lot more than you are getting, and he handed me his phone so I could call the OBS (they were friends). He gave up, knew he was caught, and I believe did not want to live it anymore.

Your WS does NOT DESERVE A SECOND OF YOUR TIME until he answers the questions you need to know. By continuing to "negotiate" what details he has to tell you or does not, you're minimizing your own importance. Answer this: If he refuses to EVER tell you who his AP was/is, will you stay with him? If the answer is yes, then what else will you decide you don't need to know? If the answer is no, then tell him so, now.. No negotiating. No bargaining. No threats. Simply state "I MUST know 1, 2, 3.... or I cannot have anything do with you."

Your story sounds so much like mine it freaks me out...but the single most important thing I learned on SI is this:

Do NOT be afraid to lose your marriage.

Do you know why? Because it's already gone. You can start to rebuild, but the marriage you had is gone. If you want a better one than you can't bear that burden alone.

I HATE telling you this. I KNOW how awful it feels. I'm so sorry - and of course my advice is just that: advice. Feel free to use it or discard it as you see fit.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 3:53 PM, March 11th (Monday)]

I ask for details and a timeline but he claims he doesn't really remember. He is in a fog. I don't want to believe that he destroyed his family for something he doesn't even remember. I also don't want her to be important to him so it is a catch-22 in thinking. I ask for details and I tell him I really don't think anything you tell me can hurt me anymore than I already am. I want details. I like information. It helps me process and make decisions. I don't like the trickle truth because I feel like I can't even figure out what direction I want to go in because I don't know what I need to know. If he can't be completely honest with me and tell me what I want/need to know, then I'm guessing there's only one way this can end.

As for his phone, he has a text app for work that deletes the messages after they are read and they cannot be recovered (he has offered to put the recovery app on his phone to see if it can recover anything). It comes in handy for this. So being able to see his phone really means nothing. He has her number memorized so it is not stored in contacts.

Although I knew something was going on, I never would have actually caught him if he didn't tell me himself. I would have needed a PI. He is that good at hiding things. His physical symptoms are what told me - his anger towards me, his not eating, not sleeping, never being home, accusing me of suspicious behavior, blaming me for things I didn't do, not spending time with me, etc. The not sleeping and not eating still occur, my guess is due to guilt. But the others have stopped.

I am hoping IC can give me some clarity and him as well. I do not know his counselor so I don't know if I like him. I have had an awful counselor in the past so I am still in the process of choosing one. As I said this is new and I'm sure he is still somewhat in the denial phase about how serious this is and what it will take to try to even work toward R. Right now I'm just trying to get my bearings and get through each day.

Very convinient for him that he has such a text app.

And he can’t remember things ?

Someone who is truly sorry can remember everything , volunteers information and doesn’t withhold details.

I have been in a similar situation .

The one thing which helped me much more than IC was to ask my WW to leave.

The 180 is the only step which helps you .

Maybe there is a future for you, but for that you need to put yourself first. You sound like you have some established boundaries and you know what you will and won’t accept.

But to look after yourself first will allow you to get a bit of clarityz

I thought it was convenient also. And we are not done talking about that, her last name, etc. Many more discussions to come.

I considered asking him to leave but will not at this time for two reasons. I don't want to put my son through that unless I see no other way. He is suffering enough through this and since WH's behavior towards me has improved, it is ok with me. Secondly, I know myself. If he leaves, he is never coming back. R would not even be a possibility. I would never be able to forget what or who he might be doing while he wasn't here. I don't trust him to do the right thing.

I am working on the 180 and I know I seem like a wimp but have to go with the soft 180 right now. As things change, I reevaluate. He already knows I am putting myself and my son first and has told me not to worry about him. He has told me he deserves what he gets. I just have to see if he's willing to put in the work.

I hope he sees what is at stake here.

You seem to have truly considered your options and for the sake of your son , you give him a chance .

I too hesitated because of my children.

We are now divorcing and whilst the kids are as happy as they can be - both of them are suffering to a degree of course. But they have me as a happier dad than what I was with my WW.

So I truly hope that your husbands sees the magnitude of the gift you offer .

Because, he doesn’t deserve it.

In my case separation allowed to come to the same conclusion as what you suggests:

Once the separation had taken place , I became sure that I don’t want her back.

I put all my love and energy into the kids and I hope over time they will heal.

Remember that you are the sane parent.

He has put the family at risk. You are the one who can look after your son.

Focus on you and the son, I really hope your husband gets the message .

[This message edited by Atg100 at 7:27 PM, March 11th (Monday)]

BetterTimesAhead,

You seem like a strong minded Lady that can deal with this crap better than most.

The 180 will help give you emotional distance, so you can see things with clarity and make good decisions regarding your family's future.

Use this site to vent, get opinions on your situation and gather information. Always remember that you are getting strangers opinions from the internet. Mind you most of us have (unfortunately) experience with infidelity as we have or are currently on the same path as you.

Take what you need and leave the rest seems to be the saying around here.

I wish you peace and happiness in your future.

LOL totallydumb. Thank you for the laugh I needed that. I don't feel very strong. I just reached my breaking point I think. He does not yet seem at that point to want to fix things. He is waffling and that makes it very difficult for me. Have been able to make an appointment for IC tomorrow so I am looking forward to that. I am already finding this website very helpful. Helps open my eyes to what I may be missing or overlooking. I'm trying to be excited about the future, whatever it brings, but instead I am just scared. I just did not see my life taking this turn.

BTH,

Don't sell yourself short. I see in your posts that you are a strong person, and perhaps once pushed to your breaking point that strength comes out big time.

He is waffling and that makes it very difficult for me.

Let him waffle all he wants.

The question is what do you want?

Time to take control of your life. Why does he get to decide if you want to keep this relationship dynamic going? Is it acceptable that he has the A, and now gets to decide your future?

Hopefully your new therapist has experience dealing with infidelity. In the healing library there is information on how to assess/choose a good therapist. Gives you some questions to ask the therapist to give you an idea of their knowledge about this subject. I encourage you to review these questions (maybe print them and take them with you) and discuss these at your first visit.

Personally, I went to 6 different therapists before finding one that had experience and that I felt comfortable with. One question that I asked that is not in the healing library is: Have you experienced infidelity in your personal life?

2 of my potential therapists admitted they were former WS. Something to consider.