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the hope that my wife will become a BETTER woman than she was before the affair. After all, it was the pre-affair wife who allowed it to happen, and the wife I have NOW is a cheater. So if I'm going to stay with her she will have to improve herself to the point that I want to be married to her again, and want to have sex with her again. Getting our marriage back to pre-affair conditions isn't acceptable, even if it were possible.

^^^This is where I am now. I was in a different place last year, but I think I had blamed myself for the pre-A M much more than I deserved. I now believe that the capability and willingness to have an A is based on WW characteristics that worked against the M in the many years pre-A. So I feel that in not working on herself as much as I want, not taking as much responsibility for the pre-A M as she should, my WW is basically saying now that the pre-A M and pre-A wife are now good enough. maybe to her, but not to me now.

Thank you bdell for putting a voice to some thoughts and feelings that do not get expressed as much as I would like.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 2:07 PM, January 26th (Sunday)]

I want sex with the wife that I married.

Oh Bdell. Your pain is palpable.

We are just under 3 years from DD and I sometimes feel that same way. And he is still so ashamed. It makes us both so sad. But there is no way he can un-fuck the AP...so that is that.

I get what your saying about being upfront about having a RA. 'Not really an affair if its out in the open...Right?

I fled to a girlfriend home in NYC and asked Mr. Happy to get me some condoms and gel so I could get some 'fresh junk' while I was away. His eyeballs popped out of his head. He got mad and refused, but after some discussion about how he was so versed in buying condoms and how we had never used them and bought them for me. I told him he was protecting himself...no telling what I could bring back to the marital bed. LOL!!!

I never did anything like that. I'm too chicken and had/have no desire to step out of my marriage for sex even though he did. Guess we are just wired different. But I got the desired response from him, shock and dismay. And he wondered the whole time I was gone...

About 8 months after DD we decided to truly R. It was then that we really examined our lives and worked on healing our marriage together.

To this day we are in 'heal' mode. It took a long time for me to process that I was not very special to him. I had to realize that what he thought of me did not define me. I took that out of the marriage arena. The fact that I don't need him to feel good is good for me but he really does not like my new found independence from his thoughts about me. He wants me to 'need' him. Those days are over. I love him but don't need him. That is a cold hard fact and it put some emotional distance between us. Too Bad. I needed that distance to protect my heart.

Our marriage is very different now. The sex has gotten better, no more mind movies but we are more than 2 years out.

When we have sex, I KNOW she is enjoying it, (she O's very easily) and when I am nice to her she blooms with pleasure. I do my best to keep from expressing my anger and disgust, in hopes that I can see a glimmer of a better future. But depression is usually only a trigger away.

All of this^^^ is completely normal. Just know that your emotions and depressions will ebb and flow and with time and lots of work between the two of you, times will get better. A lot better.

There has been plenty of advice on this thread regarding RA's. I hope that you can see through your pain that having an 'affair' will not solve any problem, and cause a lot more strife in your fragile marriage.

I think in the M sacrament, the vows are to God, not to your partner. (Not sure, though.) In any case, you made a vow to her. She made a vow to you. I don't think her violating her vow allows you to violate yours. Adultery allows D, but it doesn't allow further adultery.

WRT being upfront, a fellow member was upfront with her H and had his permission, explicitly, IIRC.

That didn't work out for her at all. She had a very hard time recovering her self-respect.

Just sayin'.

Bdell, when my H and I were in-house "separated" and heading toward D (separated in quotes because I was still stupidly having sex with him and also allowing my mind to be fucked), I felt just about as lonely and undesirable as you might imagine. I mean, sure my H still wanted to have sex with me but he was doing all kinds of other shady shit too. So I participated in & encouraged a flirtation with an old, dear friend of mine who'd been interested in me years ago. I joined an OLD service and chatted with several guys. Nothing went beyond that. I thought it would make me feel better. It didn't. It made me feel like shit, and the reason I felt that way is that I was using people to make myself feel better. Like objects. It wasn't true to who I am. I was still entangled and emeshed with my H. I very deeply regret blurring boundaries with my old friend. That friendship is pretty much gone now. I can't ever casually meet up for coffee with him now, or whatever. I spoiled that, and I've known him half my life. If you go there with your coworker, it is going to complicate an already complicated situation, and potentially make your work life awful. It's not who you are to be with another person while you're in a relationship. If it were, you would have already gone there with her years ago. What your WW did does not change who YOU are.

Big ((hugs)) to you. I know we all contemplate it. I think it's impossible not to. Just think long and hard about what YOU can live with.

Sisoon, I respectfully disagree. The marriage contract is between two people. That is why civil ceremonies are valid and not just religious ones. I made a pact with my wife. she broke the terms of the pact. In my mind that means I am not actually married. I know that I am legally, but again that is only if I wish it to be so.

I made my Vows to the loyal, loving woman I married.

You made those vows to THE woman you married, for better or for worse. Unfortunately the woman you married turned out to not be loyal or as loving as you would have hoped. I can relate. Life sucks.

If you have a RA, I guess you won't be the loyal, loving man she thought she married. It goes back to my earlier post - why would you give her and her AP the power to make you less of a man? A real man honors his vows and doesn't use someone else's shitty behavior to justify his own. If you cheat, you're a cheater. Period.

ETA: Bdell, I just noticed your join date and assume that you are no more than 2-3 months past D Day. If so then the shock, hurt and anger are still very fresh. I'm sorry for your pain. Just know that it WILL get better, regardless of what happens to the marriage. In the meantime, fight like hell for your own honor and integrity. You won't regret it.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 9:01 PM, January 26th (Sunday)]

In my mind that means I am not actually married.

This says it all. Complete the process, and then go out and do as you please.

When you took that vow, you said *I*. That vow was really to yourself. Promises YOU made to you by saying *I will* or *I won't*

You are the only person in control of your behavior.

This may have been vow that you expressed to her, but ultimately it represents your promise of how you will act when in a M with her.

She broke her word to herself and you. Even though you feel you are no longer "married" because she breached her end of the contract, an RA will require you to break the portion of the vow that was really a promise you made to yourself.

Your word will no longer be good.

I agree with you BTW on the breaking of the vow and how it means you are no longer M. I very much felt that way. But breaking the promises I make to myself is another betrayal I just can't handle. I have been dealt enough betrayal at the hands of others, I'm sure as shit not going to betray myself.

For all of those who have responded, I would like to assure you that I have decided against having a RA and to go ahead and file for divorce, instead. I am going to work on rebuilding a friendly and respectful relationship with my wife, but I want to find somebody I can love , who will love me back. I am also not going to have sex with the Lady at work, because the potential for drama is too great.

[This message edited by Bdell at 10:02 AM, January 28th (Tuesday)]

I feel that is probably your best choice, Bdell. It sounds like the affair was a dealbreaker for you.

As far as having sex with the Lady at work. Yes, very wise to not have any more drama in your life. Also, if you were going to "do it" for an ego boost, to show that you still "got it", the Lady's casual attitude toward sex would not be the ego boost you desired. She views sex, imo, the same way she views eating and pooping. It is merely a need to be taken care of. A bodily function. Not much of an ego boost, just another need taken care of.

Milkshake, I agree. I don't begrudge her, her beliefs, but they are not mine. I don't need the ego boost, so why be her stud of the moment? Actually , what I want is the kind of romantic Love that my wife and I had, before the affair.

Actually , what I want is the kind of romantic Love that my wife and I had, before the affair.

Yes, sir! That is what you deserve.

I'm so glad you decided not to go there with Work Lady. If things at home are already hard, potentially complicating your work situation is just probably not the best thing to do.

Good luck bdell.

I do deserve better, and am going to insist I get it. My wife agrees with me.

That is why civil ceremonies are valid and not just religious ones. I made a pact with my wife. she broke the terms of the pact. In my mind that means I am not actually married. I know that I am legally, but again that is only if I wish it to be so.

As a non-religious kinda guy, I still don't feel that it works that way.

Yeah, she violated the terms of agreement, which provides a legal out. You have the opportunity to null the contract on the grounds of violated terms. That means divorce.

Proceeding under the idea that the legal contract is in place but you no longer need to observe it because she didn't means you don't follow the proper procedures, either, and violate it under the same terms. Who did what first doesn't validate things.

eta:

Also, jedi fist bumps to you.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 5:59 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)]

I'm glad you're choosing divorce instead of cheating. It's the choice we all have.

I also think this is a really important subject to talk about once in a while if it can remain civil (but it's nearly impossible to talk about wanting to have an affair to a group of BS's without it being triggering - let's be real). We all have the chance to cheat - imagine if we lived in a world where the only thing that kept us from cheating was not finding a willing affair partner. That would be grim. Feeling like you're entitled to have an affair because your spouse did xyz is one of the more slippery slopes of justification we face. When in truth fidelity comes from inside you - not from your spouse's actions.

It will probably be a long time before you're divorced and healed and ready to be a good partner, without piles of anger/fear/baggage from your wife's A and whatever happens in the divorce, but you do deserve to build the relationship you want and start over if that's what you choose. Best of luck to you!