SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

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Fantastic post floridaredman!! Nailed it.

Fantastic post floridaredman!! Nailed it.

Great post!

your post and your story made me cry.what a wonderful wife you have.what a wonderful you, you are now as well.thank you for writing this.i'm a little weepy today, but thank you for posting.*HUGS*

BS here. Thank you for this post. It helps me work my way through reasons why fWS felt LTA was ok.

As BS I loved him but fwh didn't FEEL this love so we both ended up in an unfulfilling marriage.

It was a case of, you change first.... no, you change....

Whenever we had a problem fwh's response was always, what are YOU going to do about it?!!

I believe he got to a point where he felt all our problems were MY fault.

Looking back with SI wisdom I can see when the demonising of me as a wife began.

THAT is the hardest thing about the R process because I cannot erase those from memory.

Great insights and thank you to every WS who gets it, owns it and takes our BS pain.

The outcome for us all I pray is a strong, affair proofed marriage where love, respect, intimacy and genuine self sacrifice are the norm

[This message edited by want-it-2-b-ok at 3:01 AM, December 8th (Wednesday)]

Not sure I can post here as I am a madhatter and so is W but I am going to share this and expect 2x4s. My A was 9 years ago and FWW/FBW was DDay + 7mos. Soooo don't beat me up for being honest. I tried to talk to BW about my issues and my feelings were just dismissed. At the time I justified that mine was an exit A and it truly would have been. Not going to go into the reasons because they don't matter. But yes I did justify and rationalize what I now know was my selfish act. I said it was ok because I told her I was going to do it and in anger she said fine and so will I so I rationalized that she gave me permission... I did not hide it but did not rub it in her face either...she never confronted me about it until 3 years ago. She asked if I did and I said yes. She asked if I had regrets and I said No....before you start hammering out on the keys allow me to explain...I met and had sex with OW that night and felt immediately like shit realized this is not what I want...I wanted these thing from my wife and not this OW...went back to hotel second night and could not perform...sent OW home and spent night in room trying to figure out what I was going to do...with no decision in hand I went home and BW suddenly was showering me with love and sex and affection...all the things that were missing...fast forward to my answer NO...for all these years till now I rationalized by the fact that I was exiting and my A snapped my BW into showing her love which in turn saved the marriage (my favorite saying I made up years ago is that nobody can lie to me like I can lie to me). Now fast forward to DDay for WW A my first rantings were WhY? WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS??? Her justification is because you weren't there for me and I needed someone who would talk to me and tell me things I have not heard from you ever or at least in a long time....WHY didn't you talk to me and tell me what you needed??? I did but you dismissed my feelings and just got mad every time!!! Now as I am doing my self analysis I know she was right...in my frame of mind at that point in my selfish life I was dismissing her feelings (for what reasons?? Doesn't matter for this story) WE BOTH had made attempts to comunicate our issues for years and because we both had our selfish defenses up, and our protective selfish walls built, neither one listened!!! Now I am dealing with both sides of the issues. Her Infidelity and My Infidelity (Just now facing and owning this one). She is just now dealing with the pain I caused her (at least openly...kinda) and I believe she is just now taking ownership of her shit as well...I do not know how many madhatters there are on this site and how they are handling both sides but I can tell you this...it is harder and more painful than you will ever know unless you have walked down a mile of picket fence with one foot on either side!!! Soooo ask me if I have regrets now!!!! I regret that neither one of us was selfless enough to listen to the other...I regret that it had to come to this for me to realize how much and how strongly I love FWW/BW, I have new found remorse for what I did but would not have been wise enough to face it had I not become the BS and forced to look inside myself for answers...

So for you WS's taking ownership of your shit...I say to you that I myself do not subscribe to the thoughts that "WS is evil and BS is good" and I say the same to you BS's reading on here!!!

So now get out the 2x4s cause here it comes...I happen to believe that Infidelity is a result of problems in the marriage which are contributed by both parties and we are both responsible for setting the stage and opening the door for infidelity to step in...haveing said that I do believe that us cheaters are still responsible for the choices we made for whatever reasons we made them and am not relieving us of our responsibility for those choices...Just saying that while we are so busy being hurt and angry at the WS's maybe we tend to overlook how us BS's have room for improvment in the way we treat/treated our WS...how we pushed them toward the A and made the choice easier for them to make!!!

Swing them 2x4s!!!

If I may. I have all (ALL) the issues of the original post. Avoidance, selfish for "me time", blurry boundries, and a complete lack of communicating skills. I've always waited to see if she picked up on the problem, I've never offered up what was bothering me, and would only tell her if she dragged it out, usually by then I was angry at her not leaving it alone, so it came out as an argument.

Oh, yeah, I'm the betrayed one.

Floridaman,

BH here. Thanks for this post. The sentiments seem so right for someone looking at how an affair is so different from a troubled marriage.

I do hope that much of what you say is true. Whether that's so in my case, I will never know. For in our case there was no 'snap back'. And so I remain in as close to a 180 as I can given our children and an (apparently interminable) divorce.

Thank you for your insights into the mind of the Wayward. I am glad that your reconciliation is going well. It must be a lot of work for both of you. But it is heartening to see redemption and recovery for you and others here on SI.

Frank2010...

Please don't egg people on to swing 2x4's.

I'm sure you can post without encouraging a fight to break out.

To a full blown wayward, they have to demonize the BS. Make everyone think that they have a right to go outside of the marriage.

A wayward may even know that they are wrong, but have to convince themselves that they are entitled to do and behave the way they are.

This is the important part to me. Thank you for stating it succinctly.

eta:

.Just saying that while we are so busy being hurt and angry at the WS's maybe we tend to overlook how us BS's have room for improvment in the way we treat/treated our WS...how we pushed them toward the A and made the choice easier for them to make!!!

To put it gently, my wife treated me terribly. I did not cheat. My behavior did not push her to her affair, her behavior did. I think floridaredman's original post there is very applicable here.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 7:03 AM, December 8th (Wednesday)]

Frank 2010,

I am in almost the same situation. I had what I considered an exit ONS because I felt that I was not being listened to and all my requests for MC were being denied. I also taunted him with there are others that are interested and he said go ahead. We were seperated at the time and I fully felt I was ending our marriage with what I was doing. Earlier in our marriage he had an EA and walked out on me. The degree of communication issues were unbelievable. So I understand where you are coming from. However, what I have come to understand about myself is that I should have had more respect for myself and our marriage vows than to do what I did. If I wanted to end our marriage I could have done it so many other ways that would not have destroyed him and me the way that ONS did. The amount of pain that it caused my husband will never be worth it. I dont care if we had our issues, that was not worth it, ever! And yes he hurt me as well with what he did, and we are currently in R, and in MC and it is not an easy road.

But I had to take a hard look at why I did what I did, and it has opened up a whole can of worms so to speak in my own life that I am dealing with that is not easy. Thank God I have my husband who is willing to stand by me now to go through this process and still say I love you. I know it isn't easy for him some days. So I am not going to swing any 2 X 4 s in your direction, but I dont't think there is ever any reason to go outside the marriage. I wish I never had.

To put it gently, my wife treated me terribly. I did not cheat. My behavior did not push her to her affair, her behavior did. I think floridaredman's original post there is very applicable here.

Stillgoing,

Amen!

"But I had to take a hard look at why I did what I did, and it has opened up a whole can of worms so to speak in my own life that I am dealing with that is not easy."

Tiredgirl,

Thank you for this. For affairs (exit or otherwise) do (to me anyway, a BH) feels like the WS is taking the easy way out. That you've taken that hard look and are dealing with that can of worms is, it would seem, its own redemption even if you fail at reconciling. That your reconciliation seems to be going well should feel good.

Floridaredman,

Thanks for the post. I am a BS and my WW & I are heading for D. WW is in the fog still to this day. It was like flipping a light switch, I don't know the woman who replaced my wife. Just know the one I married has been MIA since This past May.

Merlin,

Can I PM you?

BS here. Thanks for the post and opening up. It was a great insight and spot on.

Unfortunately, my xWW and I have D. I gave her an ultimatum - work on M or move out in August, and she chose to move out as still had feelings for OM. Set a date for legal Sep in November, then following an arguement asked for a D, which I gave her. She was still seeing OM but that has now finished.

We both regret the speed the D happened, but she was still seeing OM.

Despite all the crap she has put me through, I still want her back. We are still in contact, and I am walking a fine line between NC and showing her what she is missing in being with me.

She is full of guilt, remorse but does not want recon and sees the door to our M as closed. Not sure if this is avoidance, serious closure or scared about recon. In any event, I have told her door is still open, but I am moving on and this opportunity may close soon.

She has many issues - insecurity, low self esteem, mentally abusive mother who went through relationships, but I am wondering when do I stop trying, when do I go full NC instead of showing compassion and understanding as I am now.

Must stress, I do not chase her, she calls me, talks about issues, what has happened with me.

Sorry for emptying my thoughts here, maybe I am looking for some insight that I can answer myself.

Thanks everyone, I am humbled by your sentiments.

Frank2010,

I am sorry that you have had to learn this in the way you have.

Having an affair is basically punishing your BS for something they did or did not do.

It is the worst way to deal with an issue.

So your WW started to show you love and affection and sex (hysterical bonding maybe). It was to reclaim you back to her.

But look at the fallout Frank2010. Look at the emotional damage and spritual damage.

Look at what you have to do to make your relationship work.

It's a job..it's work..it's hard work and if you are not willing to do the work..then your marriage is gone.

Exit affairs are just a cowardly way to twist a knife in your BS to cause a break up. "I will go have sex with someone else, that way he/she will really want to leave or divorce."

After all of this I have learned to say;

"Hey, this isn't working so let's just end this before we both hurt each other unnecessarily."

Why twist the knife. It is trivial. It's trivial like your pet being mad at you for leaving them alone in the house. They get mad so they go piss in your shoe or chew up the furniture to get back at you.

Pissing in a shoe or chewing furniture is no way equal to the damage an affair does to your soul and spirit.

You can replace a shoe or furniture..but how can you replace your soul?

ozzy,

Is she in IC? Have you told her the door to the M is closed or is she assuming this? She sounds a lot like me, the mother thing, the low self esteem. If she is full of guilt and remorse she may not be able to see clearly what you are offering. This coming from a WW who still sometimes cannot believe she was given a second chance.