SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I finished today.

I've finished too. Ready for discussions whenever everyone else is done.

Finished...and CANNOT stop thinking about this book....

Punky, glad to hear it made an impression.

I'm ready to discuss whenever everyone else is.

I loved the ending. It was very believable. Not cheesey or canned at all. It left me wanting to know more.

I'm limiting my comments cause I don't want to be a spoiler, but the end of October has come and gone.

I'll discuss: I agree the ending was good. It would have been a bit much if he would have made it to Vietnam and been an hero there--part of the point, I think, is that we can have a certain vision of our destiny but it can shift and, yet, still fulfill our fundamental destiny.

Of course, that's if you believe in destiny. Do we think Owen was pre-destined by God and it was revealed to him throughout his life? That he was emaculately conceived even?

Or do we believe that he believed so much that he created the course of events that led to fulfilling his vision?

Did God force the minister to reveal the baseball to Johnny? or did he begin to believe to a point that he did it, feeling as though God had a hand in it? But, of course, he does not supposedly believe until later when he sees "Tabby" outside the window.

I'm perplexed by Tabby. She is portrayed as almost "saintlike" but she still does some very selfish things. I think keeping her son in the dark about who his father is and calling him her "little fling" really minimizes how important where he comes from is to Johnny.

She was good and caring and reached out to Owen, etc. But some of it seemed selfish.

So do we take the story literally? Is it religious allegory?

I also felt Hester's love for Owen really interesting. I mean she is so cynical in so many ways but she falls for the "purest" one.

And why did Johnny never have sex? Is it a religious parallel to Joseph? Is it because on some level he was commited to Owen? to Hester?

Ok those are my initial thoughts.

part of the point, I think, is that we can have a certain vision of our destiny but it can shift and, yet, still fulfill our fundamental destiny.

I agree we can have preconceived notions about our destiny. But we can't be too tied to one path because we don't have the whole story. Owen thinks he knows his destiny...to a certain extent. But in the end, more of the picture is revealed to him...the reason for his strange voice, the reason for 'the shot', etc.

I also think in a weird kind of way, the women in the story parallel Owen's feelings about America. First, his naive belief in JFK (seemingly simple Tabby), then his desire to believe in the government and a reason for Vietnam (the proper appearances Grandmother), and finally, his disillusionment with the government (Hester).

I also wonder about the John and the no sex thing. It's almost as if John is not a participant in life, and no sex is just a way of reinforcing that idea. Throughout the story, for the most part, he is an outsider in his own life, following Owen's lead.

Finally, I sometimes wonder what Irving was thinking. Is he laughing at us for believing such a fantastical tale (both this book and the Bible), or is he urging us believe by weaving a story that makes it all seem possible?

I think that is a really interesting point about the women in Owen's life.

What about his anger toward his parents? If he really believed he was emaculately conceived and that the Catholic church was wrong not to believe them, why was he so mad at them?

Why did he make them leave the Christmas play?

Was he angry b/c he wasn't quite sure it was true and so he was angry about their "excuse?"

And then you have the fact that if Mrs. Meany did have sex with someone else then she is similar to Tabby in having an illegitimate child. But Owen adored Tabby and did not hold that against her--maybe because she was honest?

Yet, he was obviously angry at his mother.