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Hi Everyone,

There is no Marital Separation Agreement in Florida :-(

It's one of those tomato/tomahto things. An MSA is normally one of those things that you get when you get divorced. There is no legal separation in Florida, or in most states for that matter, which means that everything you do or don't do at this point matters. Your wife can legally do anything she wants and half of the burden is yours if you don't file. I understand that you're not ready to divorce, but just be ready for the blowback of anything she does.

[This message edited by veritas at 11:32 AM, April 29th (Monday)]

AD,

Regarding agreements in general, even if they are not legal, it will be probably be easier to get her agreement on things now while she is feeling guilty.

I had a previous marriage that ended with a cheating wife. A buddy of mine who had just gone through the same thing advised me to act fast while it was still fresh and she felt bad about what she did.

In hindsight it was some of the best advice I received.

Peace bro.

Good Luck Abbondad,

Separation worked for me when I needed to detach and protect myself about a year out from dday. As you noted, there is no legal separation in Florida, but there is pretty liberal law about abandonment of the M house. So long as you are talking about temporary separation, helping to pay bills and taxes you should be good. Your attorney will clarify, and also have advice on joint accounts, credit cards, etc.

I really, really found being out of the house good for me and my healing.

--Ats

And remember, you can always "unfile." Like I said earlier, if you just do nothing or you explicitly drop the case, it goes away. But you automatically get a whole bunch of protections starting when you file (e.g. in at least some states you get protection from new debts and any children can't be moved out of state, and a bunch of other stuff). I'd say it's a good hedge. It's why I filed last year; I absolutely did NOT want to lose my marriage, but I was terrified that my wife would never 'be herself' again and would take all my stuff, so I figured, hey, I can protect myself, and if I'm wrong I can always undo it.

I understand you may be scared of her reaction if you file. I'm not sure how to address this. I'll leave this to other people here. I definitely understand that fear though. It was hard to admit to myself, but I was very scared of my wife by the time I filed.

It took me awhile as well, I tossed one set of D papers 4 years ago. Mainly, and gently, just be honest with yourself and begin to strengthen your boundaries. Research, find out as much as you can, take baby steps (or no steps) but don't travel backwards. The rear view is not your direction, IYKWIM.

(((Abbondad)))

there is no "legal separation" in VA either. the MSA is a document created by your lawyer (possible to do yourself, but not recommended). it basically contains all of the terms of a D, and serves to settle interim CS and custody issues. we had to take it UPS and get it notarized by both of us. i sent my lawyer a copy. nothing is filed with the state. we held onto it for the year we had to be separated...i balked a little longer...then i pulled the trigger, wrote my lawyer and said, "file." from there it became my divorce petition and was a matter of weeks with almost no more intervention from me.

anyway, in my state, it just functions as a contract between two parties.

[This message edited by stretch13 at 4:11 PM, April 29th (Monday)]

but all the states are so different. it gets confusing everywhere. (((abbondad)))

Hey, Everyone,

Thanks for responding. I will get the codependency book. I also just ordered "Feeling Good" by David Burns, which addresses similar and related issues from a rational emotive approach.

I'm pretty wrecked up but am trying to take it literally moment by moment, rejecting poisonous thoughts. Then when they begin to really swarm I make sure to do something with my kids, if only for a little while. Just played some ball with my son, now we will read a book.

My fury returns though when they begin their "When is Mommy coming home" not knowing what awaits them yet again. (We haven't told them yet.)

HI Abondad,

I'm really sorry for your difficulty but also glad for you that you took the enormous leap towards healing. I found that when we tried to reconcile, though it turned out false, it was really difficult even to be near STBXH after knowing what he had done. It was too soon and too hard to concentrate on me when I strove to make him happy-while he texted OW all the while.

I'm sorry for your pain and I can also relate to fear of abandonment, as does our daughter now. STBXH tries hard to minimalize every part of what he did but it cannot be done. What's done is done.

I couldn't fathom divorce when he first left, though people chanted, yelled, taunted, cajoled, pleaded with me to do so, the very first week. That was people with knowledge of his A and other activities that I did not have.

I don't know about you, but one of the hardest parts of all for me about this is knowing that our spouse changed right under our noses. We even have a really open floor plan and he still managed to hide porn for many years and his dating websites.

I'm really sorry for what you're going through and hope that your support system can find what you need, in this new and unknown chapter of your life.

NC is the hardest part for me because I am still seeking answers, but trying really hard to stop. I did a little reward system that failed after false R and it helped to set very small goals with NC, too.

What really makes NC most successful for me is the pain he still causes. I don't know if any of that will help at all, but I wish you well.

I just spent a few weeks in Florida and it was really nice. I spent time at St. Augustine and parts in the north and though the bugs were out, it was nice to be warm so early in the year!

P.S. Working things out while the WS is guilty is good advice. Mine is more cooperative and right now I am very vulnerable, so though it felt odd to be calculating against him, I chose now during pregnancy to file.

If you file for divorce its not necessari;y something you have to go through with. You can withdraw the application if reconciliation takes place.

Right now your wife gets to leave and restart her affair with OM who must really be delighted. Meanwhile you sit at home babysitting while she's getting reaquainted with her lover both sexually and emotionally. Amazingly you won't even file for divorce. You are getting the worst of both worlds; handing your wife over to another guy and still remaining tied to her by choice.

As others have said filing for divorce right now will throw your wife off-guard; she will be aware of her marriage slipping away even as she cavorts with the OM. However you seem hell-bent to make sure she can f**k other men while safe in the knowledge her family is intact.

Your generosity is astounding and very unwise. You will eventually destroy whats left of your self-esteem.

Gonna throw in my two cents....I've kept up on your story, but not commented.

Its hard to overcome codependency....but you can do it. I did. So I agree with the others, work on that.

And please, please, please.....put SOMETHING in writing. After D Day, WXH and I hand-wrote a post-nuptial agreement....spelling out who got what, how the debts were split, and what the amount of spousal maintenance would be (our kids were over 18). Then we had it notarized. WXH was feeling pretty guilty then. And basically, that ended up being our D agreement once we decided to D.

But here's the thing....if you don't do SOMETHING legal, than you are liable for debts she incurs. Sure, if you can prove you were physically separated at the time the debts were incurred, perhaps the court will allot them to her. But perhaps not. Either way, it will for sure cost you A LOT more in legal fees to get that straightened out. Suppose she opens some credit cards....with your name as joint holder....and maxes them out? Then you are in a world of financial hurt, brother.

I'm not swinging a 2x4....deciding, really KNOWING you NEED to divorce, can take a very long time. But as the others have said....get the process started. To protect yourself, and your kids. It's not over til it's over....starting the paperwork does not mean it's the final decision....but it does mean you are taking the first steps standing up, on your own.

[This message edited by SadMad2012 at 9:17 PM, April 29th (Monday)]

Sorry to butt in at this point, Abbondad. I haven't been on this site for a while but just read your recent stuff yesterday. I am worried for you, and can feel the pain you're in, but I'm really concerned that you don't really appear to be separated yet - still living together in fact. And while you haven't started divorce proceedings, actually nothing's changed, you're still in the same hellish situation that has caused you and your kids so much pain. As others who know more about US law have said, at the moment you're entirely unprotected, financially and legally. Your wife clearly has no-one's interests at heart but her own, and you are allowing her to continue abusing you until something legal is done. I worry that facing up to this is what you're scared of, Abbondad... as if you feel that seeing a lawyer makes it real and irrevocable. It IS real, but nothing is ever irrevocable. The only thing that changes when you file is that YOU have a bit more security and also that you've taken back some power. My other word of advice (from one who has been there and still goes there, believe me!!!) is to give up trying to analyse your emotions or your situation. Reading books about it is just a costly way of putting off doing what deep down you know you must do. Apologies if this sounds a bit strong. And good wishes to you.

... And another thing... I'd tell the kids. This will be hard on them but the confusion is harder. They need their dad to be clear and healthy. Please focus on them entirely now. You are never alone in this world when you have your kids... they will get you through this.

give up trying to analyse your emotions or your situation. Reading books about it is just a costly way of putting off doing what deep down you know you must do.

I respectfully disagree as someone who has *also* been there. Get the books AD, they help explain this shit in layman's terms. The minute we begin to think we know *all* of this, we can spiral right down the rabbit hole again.

As for your decision to S and hold off on D, it's your life and ultimately your call. Do what you think is best for you... but *please* keep an open mind to the experience offered by others who have traveled down this long dusty, dirty road before you.

And if I may add one more thing... I was a poster child for codependency, all 38 years of my M. So I too was scared shitless to take the final step needed to remove stbxWW's choke hold of abuse and toxic negativity on me.

What I wanted to express to you is this... those fearful thoughts you're having are just programed tapes you've been playing over and over in your mind for years. Once you realize that they *are* just thoughts and can't hurt you in any way, you'll begin to slowly erase those old tapes and replace the fear in them with new found strength and resolve. In essence, you'll rerecord the tapes to fit your new life.

That all may sound like a bunch of spun together cliches to you now. Please know that I & many others in this forum are living proof that there *is* a better life on the other side of this shit storm. As for myself... I am truly more happy with my life direction than ever before.

Strength AD... you CAN and WILL get there too!

Peace brother.

[This message edited by PanicAttack53 at 2:42 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)]

(((Abbondad))) I am sorry you are hurting. We are here for you. We accept you unconditionally. Sit down and rest my friend. We are by your side.

I haven't responded before, tend to be mostly a lurker, but I have followed your story. As a BS that is dealing with her own shit, I implore you to put your kiddos on the front burner! I was raised in a FOO where the kids were just supposed to roll with the punches that our cheating alcoholic father handed out:( He is gone now but I still struggle with the fact that my Mom assumed we could & would deal with it. BTW I am 50 and a Mom of 3, so I have seen this from many angles and am also a BS. All the best Jamie

I've said it before: You people are so wonderful, to keep offering advice and unwavering support to someone stubborn and/or delusional like me.

So as I've said, we are separating. My wife says she is confident that THIS time she will be able to tackle her issues so she can return to me "as the wife I want to be to you."

THIS time I laid out MY needs and boundaries for separation: NC except for kids and business. No discussions about "us." No lingering when we exchange kids. No asking me to help her with tasks, favors, etc. We will be nice and even loving around the kids so they know we love each other (yeah, we still do and have no problem being affectionate), but that's it. No "I love you" or "I miss you texts," etc.

I need to detach properly this time to help myself heal on my own. This is necessary whether we end up together or if we do not. My hope/plan is that if we divorce at the end of the separation I will already have begun to detach so it won't be as devastating.

WELL: she does NOT like this whole NC thing. Says she feels I am saying goodbye to her. She is actually angry! Why? Cuz she won't have her cake any more. No husband perks.

I find myself becoming more and more indifferent to her "issues" and the BS overall. Not all the time. I still panic and cry, but the intervals are getting longer. I hope this is a good sign and I am on my path to detachment.

I would like to make a suggestion abbondad...do your separation thing...but still file. It gives you a very important legal protection...namely, that she doesn't take off with the kids.

I don't want to scare you but you never know how a wayward is going to react when the betrayed spouse starts detaching. Mine broke into my house and stole one of the dogs. There was nothing I could do because I didn't have temporary orders filed. Thought he would be a good guy...but he kinda went crazy instead.

Just a cautionary tale.