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- I feel selfish. I feel like I'm being unfair. I love her and feel like I am letting her down

please don't feel selfish. you're being true to yourself. not wanting kids is not selfish. what would be selfish would be to go along with this and bail out later. being true to your own feelings is not selfish in this scenario.

I’m going to be hard on your SO.

She is being a cake eater. It is completely out of line to try to develop a relationship and start a family independently and simultaneously.

Does she want kids or does she want a relationship? She needs to get her priorities sorted and focus on one or the other. That is the issue with the adoption, NOT you. Not saying she can’t have both, but the adoption agencies are going to want a stable environment. Dating is not stable. She needs to be single or long term committed. It is not fair to ask you to commit just so she can have a child. It isn’t fair to you or to the child.

If you absolutely do not want more kids, you need to be clear on this and end the relationship. This is not the same as dating a single parent and you know it. There would be no other father in the picture and you would be in the child’s life from the start.

If you would consider having another child, but aren’t ready now, this needs to go on the backburner while you focus on the relationship. You have to enter the adoption process together when you are BOTH ready. It is a gamble she has to take just like anyone else choosing to have children WITH someone else.

If she wants to be a single parent and doesn’t want to do this together, she needs to end things with you and do it on her own. She can revisit dating once she is really and truly a single parent and the child has a stable home life.

[This message edited by Crescita at 1:34 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)]

Crescita

This is an interesting take. She wants both. She wants to do this herself (actually said she never asked me to do this and I was being presumptious in thinking otherwise).

What she wants is to continue our relationship and pursue the adoption process. I would be her BF and would be involved with the child as a friend - uncle velveteer kind of thing.

What happens after that? Am I then to take on a greater role if I want the relationship to progress? I think she would argue that this is the situation she faces with me, but I came to the relationship with two kids - I didn't start without and then have kids.

I just go round and round with this.

I emailed her about something else and suggested that we need to talk - she replied saying that she is upset and confused and knows that we need to talk but it wary as it could lead to further upset.

Crescita hit the nail on the head.

Gently:

I don't understand what the issue is here.

You don't want more kids. You've stated it clearly multiple times in this post. You say you were clear and upfront with your SO about this issue from the very beginning.

You each should strive to find partners who have goals that are more in line with each other. It would be unfair to BOTH of you otherwise.

I think you know this issue is a dealbreaker.

(((velveteer)))

ETA: Also, what does the below mean? If I'm interpreting it correctly, it sounds a lot like manipulation to me. Correct me if I'm wrong (I have been known to be off base before) but the implication is that she feels that because she was willing to put her desire to adopt 'on hold' for you then, now you should be willing to consider accepting her adoption plans 'for her'.

Then it all went quiet. She had put it 'on hold' and I found out last night that she had done this 'for me'

[This message edited by abbycadabby at 4:19 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)]

I want to thank everyone for taking the time to input to this.

I'm still circling around all of this and think that ultimately, this is boiling down to how I really feel about SO and how I really feel about having more kids in my life.

On SO I know that I love her. We are a great fit and a very good together. I know she loves me too.

Its is the kids issue that's the sticking point. Right now I can't see that I want more kids in my life. My problem is I don't know if this is just a timing issue or if its a permanent position. Can I realistically rule it out in future? Could I say for certain that if this relationship ended I would never get involved with a woman that had kids?

Of course, added to this is the fact that she is not a woman with kids, but a woman that WANTS to adopt. I understand very well, as SBB and Crescita pointed out that this is not the same as dating a single parent.

And finally, there is the sense of responsibility I feel for 'getting in the way' of this for her - muddying the waters and making a very difficult and challenging process even more so as a result.

abby - is this manipulation - I don't know, but if I'm honest I did get a bit of that feeling. Otherwise I'm not sure why it was said, but things were pretty heated by that stage, so maybe it should be seen in that context.

Velveteer- what age child does your SO want to adopt?

Also, perhaps this IS less of a "I don't want more kids ever" issue than a "this isn't the right time for me to assume a role like this" issue.

Either way, it's okay. You're not selfish. This is what dating and relationships are all about... finding someone with which we connect and have compatibility both on basic things and especially on these types of major life decisions.

[This message edited by abbycadabby at 8:11 AM, May 9th (Thursday)]

Abby - her age and circumstances mean that she would be unlikely to get a baby - more likely 3 years plus. I'm not sure though how much of a difference that makes.

And that you for your comments - I'm really struggling with all of this and to have people tell me that this is not somehow my fault or my failing is helpful - heading down a rabbit hole with those kinds of feelings at times.

I believe that if you really love her, then let her go so she will move forward with adopting a child. That's her dream. You don't want another child and you can't build a future with her on the possibility of changing your mind. That wouldn't be fair to her.

[This message edited by lieshurt at 1:46 PM, May 9th (Thursday)]

Abby - her age and circumstances mean that she would be unlikely to get a baby - more likely 3 years plus. I'm not sure though how much of a difference that makes.

I was afraid you were going to say that.

While it might not make much of a difference in how you feel about accepting this role, it absolutely should to your SO. You might just already KNOW, without a doubt, that more kids aren't in the cards for you right now. And that's okay. It's SO okay to feel that way.

But in case you're considering it, adoption is a complex, emotional process for all parties involved, but especially for the children. Idk if you've done any research on what the process would actually entail (and what emotions are likely to be experienced throughout) but you should if you're considering even the possibility of taking this step with your SO. My (brief) research has already led me to several resources for those considering adoption. These resources list emotional issues that all parties might have to deal with. But I'm most concerned for the child in this scenario.

What scares me is this: say you decide to go this route. You stick it out with SO, she adopts, and you're part of the child's life. At some point an attachment forms between the adopted child and you/your children. If things ever DO go south between you and SO, there is yet another broken attachment for an already fragile child who may have already been through a lot and is probably already trying to cope with feelings of loss, abandonment, etc. Imagine how that might feel to the child.

I can't tell you what to do, but I would think that you'd have to be all in, 100% on board, before taking this step with your SO.

On the flip side, you could decide to see this thing through and everyone lives happily ever after.

You just don't know for sure.

Forgive me if I've spoken out of turn. Just wondering if you had considered this possibility. I'd be happy to PM you the webpage I found so you can do a little reading.

(((velveteer)))

abby - thank you and yes I have considered this and like you this is also my fear. I am extremely wary of having any kind of half hearted involvement with such a vulnerable child. Scares me to death if I'm honest.

If you could PM me the link that would be great too. Thanks again.

I'm glad you're thinking this way and that you have concern for the potential adopted child here. THIS tells me you are a good person and you're not selfish.

PM sent. I hope it helps some.

OK - so we talk tonight and I have been doing A LOT of thinking.

Quite apart from the issues around having kids, I think we are both quite damaged people. I've realised that much of my own attitude to this centres around what if things go wrong in the relationship, what if we don't last etc. My faith in the permanence of romantic relationships has clearly been seriously shaken - more perhaps than I had realised.

SO is also very damaged. Her last relationship was emotionally abusive, and she has major trust issues. This is why she accused me of only wanting fun and sex when that is not the case - I have stood by through a few things that have been issues I faced with WXW and that were problems in our M. Yet still I faced these with SO and did not flinch. If I was just after sex I would have bailed a while ago. But she seems not to trust this.

I don't blame her or me - its our histories. In the heat of our argument, I think these deeper issues started to rear their heads.

Then there are all the issues around kids - my kids, her adopting etc. I have already rehearsed these here and while I have no clear answer, I think I at least know what the issues are.

So, who knows how things will go tonight. I'm anxious and I just hope that whatever comes we can treat each other with care and respect. I love her and I want her to be happy. If she is not going be happy with me then I may just have to come to terms with that.

Need some SI mojo.

V

It sounds like you may be realizing that there are issues beyond her desired adoption. OR, you just flat out don't want kids so you're nitpicking to find things wrong to give you an excuse to end the relationship.

If it's the latter, you don't have to nitpick. It's okay just to say, "we're incompatible in this major area so we need to end this."

How are you doing this morning? How did the talk go?

Thanks for checking in Abby.

Actually the talk went OK - grown up and calm. She wants to adopt, or at least to pursue the process. She knows I don't want more kids in my life right now. For now at least, that keeps our relationship in a particular place and we both agreed that this was fine for now. We both need and like our own space and were able to be honest about that. As things move forward we will continue to talk.

She has no expectations of me regarding the adoption. Its her thing. I voiced my concerns about potential impacts on the adopted child and she agreed that this was paramount and that we had to be careful if and when things moves forward. At this stage, that is still in the future, and still uncertain. We agreed no hasty decisions right now.

We both recognised that our argument last week also surfaced other issues and we need to talk about those issues more.

Neither of us wants to give up on the relationship altogether, or least not until we have unpicked this all a bit more. We are too invested to just let it go. This is a relationship that is in many ways very good for both of us - there is a lot of love and care between us, and a lot of respect. I don't feel we can throw that away until we have fully explored all of the issues that are in here.

It was good. We have not been communicating properly and we both agreed that this has to change. Last night we did communicate - honestly and clearly, even if some of it was hard.

You are right - my last post was nitpicking. It was I think defensive. I am realising that I harbour some negativity regarding relationships (no kidding!). I was essentially talking myself out of it as a way of protecting myself. I need to work on this more.

I put a lot of store on gut feel and this feels right for now - neither of us felt like the time was right for major decisions. I hope that by communicating better we will arrive at the right place, wherever that is.

Learning a lot here.

thanks

V

You are right - my last post was nitpicking.

Yes! I got a sense that you were trying to convince yourself why remaining in the relationship was a bad idea... like you were talking yourself out of it or something. I can see that being a defense mechanism to protect you from getting hurt. I, too, have been known to withdraw and push people away before I have the chance to get hurt. I am working on this. It is hard!

It sounds like you guys had a productive, mature discussion. But I wonder if you're not just postponing the inevitable. Just something to think about. Time will tell.

Thought of you when I read this article this morning, Velveteer.

http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/its-ok-to-want-different-things-it-doesnt-make-you-wrong