SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Rationally, I know it has nothing to do with me or his AP's and everything to do with his brokenness. "Rationally"

My irrational side...is just so wounded now. I really just hope he sees me the way I've always seen him.

I so appreciate the openness you WS's are willing to give.

See, this is why I like lurking on the Wayward forum. SLH, I didn't cheat but I identify with a lot of the thought processes you outline. I have always felt that I'm kind of weird and different (not in a good way) from everyone, like there is something wrong with me and I'm a fraud. I have long looked for validation from others (especially my H - in a way I would blame him if I didn't feel good about myself, which was my issue and not his) and also based my happiness on the state of my marriage. I think unhealthy thought processes are not confined to the WS population; it's just that the WS happened to deal with things by cheating which is why we're all here. But everyone, BS and WS, benefits from this kind of introspection. Good to "see" you here, hope you are well!

SamanthaBaker said:

Do WS mean it after an A when they compliment their BS? I mean, really mean it? Are we ever compared to the AP in your mind?

I know in my particular circumstance that the APs never enter into it. As HL said, they were part of a dysfunctional cycle of brokenness that had nothing to do with anyone but me and my need for affirmation and external validation.

When I compliment Heart, I really do think she is beautiful, a good mother, a GREAT flutist, and lots more. I don't offer her compliments that I don't honestly feel (as part of rebuilding trust, honesty, and communication), but they ARE all in direct contradiction to things I said to the APs about her, predominantly because I was a master of projecting my own shortfalls onto her and bleaching myself blameless. This is one of the sticking places I've experienced, if only because there's a truth to what I say now AND a "truthiness" to what I said then.

My job is to demonstrate why those "things I said then" are completely false and part of the warped reality I had elaborately constructed for my own fragile ego. Not an easy task, but I will do it every day if I have to.

So I think that seeking external validation from a stranger or coworker etc is when it "matters" to the WS BECAUSE of the simple fact that this person doesn't know you as well as your SO or family so if this "stranger" thinks your great, then shit, you must be, right?

Actually, SLH, that doesn't really make sense to me. What I've noticed more with a few people is that they're collectors. Once something or someone (sadly to some no difference) is "collected" they lose their appeal. They're won. They're certain. Must have fresh supply.

You have a mirror. I know sometimes FOO issues are real warpers for some but eyes work most times. You know how you look. It's how you think that may have concerned you and that would be valid. Like that awesome movie quote...sometimes low self esteem is just good common sense.

I have never quite understood how a complete stranger's compliments matter more than someone close. I guess because I knew those close don't have to. God, if I'd have heard a compliment from my mother I'd literally have died from shock. Seriously. Neither mattered to me. I could see the angles, most of the time.

So, if a strangers compliment seemed more real what about your feelings? The love you had for your husband? Did that seem real to you? Did you feel you were "supposed to" say that to him? All the compliments you gave him, did you just pop those off or did you really feel them?

You saw him, right? In all his glory just like he saw you. Did that deminish your love for him or did it actually endear him even more to you? That knowledge because you had back stage passes to the real show?

Why wouldn't he feel that way about you?

Believe me, my thought processes could be real shit shows. I just never quite understood this when I read it here.

How have you changed this? I know you've worked very hard and you guys seem good. What was the realization for you?

[This message edited by uncertainone at 10:48 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)]

KB that helps. My inner voice when he compliments me will say "but I wasn't beautiful enough then" or "you didn't love me then" and I struggle so much with that inner voice. I don't want to throw the compliments back and I try to accept them at face value. Its just the whole, "why wasn't I enough for you" then.

Sometimes I also just feel like I wasn't his first choice. If I hadn't caught him, he would still be having affairs. He said I was always his first choice. I hate that I even had to be a choice.

So if the need for external validation drives many of the waywards into affairs, then how do they cope with the aftermath in an attempt to reconcile?

After my wife's affair was discovered, I know that I wasn't exactly heaping praise on my wife. If there is a reliance on this validation, how does a wayward (who is attempting R) deal with the criticism, anger, blame, name-calling, that often follows the D-Day?

wonderboy,

how does a wayward (who is attempting R) deal with the criticism, anger, blame, name-calling, that often follows the D-Day?

for me, I just did. I know that so much was said out of anger (deserving so). I also heard it all and the anger still pokes through at times. But I caused it. When we really take a look at ourselves we can see it too.

Time not only heals the BS but the WS also.

The WS is jealous of the BS. Plain and simple. The WS is so wrapped up in their own issues and pain that when they see their BS all happy they could just spit nails because the WS isn't happy. The WS is responsible for their own happiness but they either don't know how to do that or don't care.

I've sat on this for a little while but I don't get this statement. I was in no way shape or form jealous of my SO. I was depressed and angry but at life not at him. I am honest when I say that nothing about my A had anything to do with him and rather with myself and my issues. It sounds so much like a justification that it's bothering me. Perhaps it wasn't meant that way but I've read it a few times and just wonder how jealousy of someone's happiness even comes into the equation.

I also don't understand how the compliment of a stranger means more then words coming from the ones that love you the most. The stranger says your beautiful but they don't know a damn thing about you but it means more then you SO saying your beautiful despite the fact that your SO knows all your faults and accomplishments. I don't get it. Perhaps it's because the compliments of strangers never meant more to me then when my SO would tell me something. I wasn't getting compliments at home anymore, despite efforts in behavior and appearance, something that SO has said he did stop. When he did say something I was on cloud nine but it didn't matter, either way it was still seeking something externally. In the end my opinion of me is what needed to matter the most and it's where I utterly failed.

how does a wayward (who is attempting R) deal with the criticism, anger, blame, name-calling, that often follows the D-Day?

You just do. If you can't it speaks to the same broken part that was seeking validation. Only you know who you are, what's truly inside and how many changes you are making. Just like external validation should not be sought after to make us feel better about ourselves so to should the insults and name calling not make us feel any worse. You work on yourself, through reading, posting, IC, internalizing, and figuring out your shit. You just blew your BS's world apart how do you expect them to react? To not be able to deal with it, well perhaps you may want to put the idea of R on hold until you have a better sense of self. R is not easy, and anger, blame and name calling is the least of what must be dealt with.

Unagie,

In in my own experience, I would say that I buy in to this thought process of being jealous. I guess it's not really viewed in the sense of revenge on a BS for not having seemingly as many problems, but I know in my case, my WGF had numerous problems that she internalized and I can only imagine that it bothered her that I was so happy all the time. I think it's a minor factor overall.

The point of outside validation is something that I am soaking up from SLH's post. It basically organizes all the thoughts that I've had in my head about how WGF had been feeling throughout the years. The countless times that I would be verbally chastised by her because someone else complimented her on a certain evening that I did not. It's about loving yourself first. Not externalizing your own insecurities and issue on to your SO.

Thank you for your post SLH.

My fwh did tell me he was jealous of the fact that I had friends and a support system. I can't help that I'm outgoing, that I seek support when needed, that I've been a network of friends. He hasn't, I can't do that for him. He isolated himself.

I don't want to throw the compliments back and I try to accept them at face value.

SB, you don't have to do anything with them, accept or reject, when you feel they are coming from a healthy place then cool, accept them.

Many times people throw compliments out (honest or not) as a fishing exercise, they cast their net of praise in hopes of getting some back to feed their own need for validation.

So if the need for external validation drives many of the waywards into affairs, then how do they cope with the aftermath in an attempt to reconcile?

For me, it like the A came down to choice. While validation was a driver, I chose to do what I did. The way I dealt with it after dday was I drowned out the need for validation with a need to get better, different driver and I made a different choice. Lot of ups and downs the past year but that was the basic driver that has allowed me to be in R.

dupe, duhh

[This message edited by hardlessons at 12:24 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]

Now I'm the one that wants validation. Not from others, but him. I know I shouldn't, but I do because of the havoc the A's caused on my self esteem and confidence. I don't understand how to overcome that.

This is REALLY good stuff! I am having too many aha moments to jot down right now. Darn....bus with kids coming in 10. Back later!

Wonderboy, I had that very thought myself.

JanaGreen: Were we separated at birth?

Now I'm the one that wants validation. Not from others, but him. I know I shouldn't, but I do because of the havoc the A's caused on my self esteem and confidence. I don't understand how to overcome that.

^^^so true!!! But for me it is only at home. I am very confident on my job. I am very confident in my 12 step fellowship. I am confident in my social life. I am confident in yoga and other hobbies.

But.... I pull in the driveway and I automatically feel like an undesirable pathetic loser, constantly searching for attention and validation.

Now I'm the one that wants validation. Not from others, but him. I know I shouldn't, but I do because of the havoc the A's caused on my self esteem and confidence. I don't understand how to overcome that.

But.... I pull in the driveway and I automatically feel like an undesirable pathetic loser, constantly searching for attention and validation.

I understand both of these statements. I had just started to get to a place in my work as a WS where my self esteem was getting better and I was doing a good job with validating myself. Then I discovered Hlessons EA and it took a pretty good hit. After all she was quite a bit younger than him and that is something I can never achieve.

Something I have figured out over this past year is that while him reassuring me that I am the one he wants does help me, my self esteem is mine. It is up to me to fix this. And I have made it my job AGAIN to fix this hit to me. Slowly but surely, with some of the things I have put in place, I am feeling better again. I know, that whether he likes me or not, desires me or not, I am good. I like me. And ultimately, that is what counts.

So if the need for external validation drives many of the waywards into affairs, then how do they cope with the aftermath in an attempt to reconcile?

wonderboy,

For me it was getting to remorse. I actually got a chance to feel what my wife went through and that alone was enough to stop me from seeking validation elsewhere.

I didn't want to put anyone else, especially my wife, through that pain again.

That's when I started to get to the root of what drove me to do what I did in the first place.

I learned that no one can really validate me, only I can.

Something I have figured out over this past year is that while him reassuring me that I am the one he wants does help me, my self esteem is mine. It is up to me to fix this. And I have made it my job AGAIN to fix this hit to me. Slowly but surely, with some of the things I have put in place, I am feeling better again. I know, that whether he likes me or not, desires me or not, I am good. I like me. And ultimately, that is what counts.

WS/BS = Same - same. Very nice.

I didn't want to put anyone else, especially my wife, through that pain again

So, what happens if you no longer care about the other person? What if the other person's actions and behaviors have eroded your respect and love for them? What now is your stop sign?

If your spouses pain is your reason to not cheat how does that really address your problem areas to begin with?

My ex wasn't in pain and got off on it. Using his pain as a benchmark for my actions would have gotten me nothing.

What about your self respect? Isn't that the nexus regardless of your feelings for the "target"?