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I believe that a longterm A indicates a problem within the WS. An attachment disorder, a personality disorder, an addiction, something that allows them to persist in betrayal for so long. As the scales fall from our eyes after dday, many BS see in our own relationships with our WS that defect that allowed them to be "comfortable" with a LTA. That defect, whatever it is, must be identified and addressed for there to be any hope of R and a healthier relationship.

Absolutely agree and one of the reasons I started this thread. I truly believe the length of MY A is a massive indicator to my broken-ness. The fact that it was actually ok to live a double-life for so long. Yes I was full of guilt, anxiety, fear, shame etc BUT it didn't end for a long time (it did for a while in between but started up again).

After D-day I asked my H for a divorce or a separation at the very least. I thought I'd broken the marriage. That's it, it was doomed and I HAD broken it. For me to do what I did showed that we could never be authentic or genuine ever again. What ever we used to have pre-A we can never have again. I was convinced he could do better than me and was giving him a way out. That was what was in my mind at that time. I was consumed with feelings of "there's no going back now".

Thankfully, he didn't take it and we are on the right road. We are both trying very hard and I am learning to love him all over again. It's taking time and I'm inpatient but I am working on that.

Something is significantly wrong with people who can live two lives for as long as they do.

I'm starting to unravel my why's regarding this.

H cheated with OW for five years. She lives overseas and H went back and forth for work a lot. Overall the physical time they were together added up to about a year during the five year period.

H told the OW he was widowed and they communicated via his cell, emails and whenever he was in her country. H decided it didn't affect us because there wasn't any chance she and I would ever run into each other. Nobody in the our circle knew of the A and OW believed H when he told her to pretend they didn't know each other in the bars when his colleagues or customers were around. He said his company would not think it was appropriate for him to date.

I never went overseas with him … we had three kids and I had a job and the trip was not in our budget, but looking back, he would always tell me the company didn’t like wives to travel with their husbands and he had so much work to do there even on the weekends…..his job and his ego made it all possible.

H admits he was completely selfish...felt entitled 'cause he worked hard and was so lonely in a foreign country. He made a conscious decision to cheat and was cruising bars looking for the right woman when he spotted OW and she was dumb enough to believe his lies for many years.

I believe, during some point in a LTA, the woman (mostly more than the man) will want to have more security and stability and will pressure the man for this. He will realise, actually, I already HAVE the wife, the kids, the home, the car. I don't want that with YOU

When I confronted H with the evidence, he said OW had been pushing for more and questioning whether he had someone else back home. H said the affair had grown tiring but he wasn't sure how to get out of it. Said he was glad I'd found out as living with it was becoming a nightmare and he'd realized he had everything he wanted at home with me and he didn't want to be with OW who was dumb.

For me, I think the LTA is harder to process than an ONS, but I think the pain and loss of trust are the same.

I feel like a huge chunk of my history was stolen and rewritten and nobody told me. I did a crash course over the year after Dday studying the prior 8-10 years to figure out how we lost our way and then studied the five years of the A using credit cards, family photos and my personal calendar to learn what my history really was during that time.....to know the truth about my life. That vacation we took in Cayman that I thought was so great...lots of laughter and sex....A LIE...He had just met the OW and wrote her the day we left on that trip that he couldn't wait to see her the next month. All the times over the next three years he treated me badly, criticizing everything I did making me believe I was a total bitch and a loser and cutting me and the kids out of his life completely when he was home……NOT MY FAULT……it was his way of rewriting our lives to justify his lying and cheating……a way of easing his own guilt.

If it wasn’t for his job I don’t think H could have pulled this off for so long and though I believe he cheated while traveling here in the states also, he only admits to a ONS. At this point it doesn’t matter what he says because I can’t believe him.

We are heading towards four years since Dday and I still have moments I want to smack him but those moments don’t last….. most of the time, I have that warm loving feeling inside when I see him and I’m glad we are surviving this together.

Absolutely agree and one of the reasons I started this thread. I truly believe the length of MY A is a massive indicator to my broken-ness

I think a lot of our choices can be looked at that way, regardless of what alphabet soup we claim.

Disorders are for counselors to diagnose and sometimes even then they get it wrong. I think much of the "science" used in labeling "disorders" is complete bullshit. Some behaviors are common with a group so let's label it.

Yeah, something is significantly wrong with living two lives. It works. It works in many areas...until it doesn't. It either makes an intolerable situation tolerable, for some. Brings excitement needed (or believed to be) for some.

Digging to get to the bottom of why those choices were made and why they did work for you is the nexus of healing. There is only something significantly "wrong" with 'you' if your choice is not to fix it because you truly do enjoy the chaos and destruction. Then 'you' need a warning label. Cigarettes have them, ffs.

Trying33 - I just want to thank you for your responses I found them helpful. How you described the reasons your LTA happened, how it continued so long and why it finally ended are similar to what WH told me. He couldn't tell me why it happened in a way that makes me understand.

Phrases such as "You help me function in my real life" and "Looking forward to entering trying/xAP world tomorrow" were very common during the A.

I found an email between WH and OW that was very similar - I am there for you and thank your for being so supportive during the time at work. This hurt because at the same time I was trying to encourage him and I got his anger but I see the AP got I love you forever and you make me happy comments. This I couldn't understand. I was taking care of the house, kids and working while he spent his time texting lovey crap to her. Thank you for trying to explain this thought process.

I believe, during some point in a LTA, the woman (mostly more than the man) will want to have more security and stability and will pressure the man for this. He will realise, actually, I already HAVE the wife, the kids, the home, the car. I don't want that with YOU. I want the FANTASY with YOU. I want the ego stroking and the unlimited sex. He knows full well, that if she becomes his WIFE (which is what she's asking for) he will be where he is now.

I think this is spot on what happened to WH. I think she started pushing for something more and he didn't know what to do. He told me he realized all woman want the some things. He realized life with her would be worse.

It ended when it couldn't go on any longer. When there was too much to lose. Realising what's really important. Bursting of the fantasy bubble.

This was the same in my case. I asked WH why did it finally end when you said you spent a year trying to end it. Why did he continue the sexual complimentary contact after DDay? Why did he finally end it 5 months after DDay? All he says it had to end. It was stupid and it had to end. I don't understand why she finally stopped contacting him.

I think the other factor that kept the LTA going was WH's friend who introduced them (see my profile for details). The friend decided to leave his wife for his AP but my WH said he didn't want to leave me. When I asked why he didn't tell his friend he wanted to end the A WH said he couldn't because guys don't have those talks. I call bull. I think WH did want to continue the A but the pressure of me asking what is going on and finally telling he needed to leave if he wasn't going to tell the truth and OW pressuring him for a future and then his friend was talking about a future with his AP which probably included WH and his AP (the OW were relatives). I think like you wrote WH realized he had a lot to lose and the fantasy bubble burst.

It makes me feel like a low life and a disgrace for a human being when I've not been raised that way or have never acted so immorally prior to this A

.

My WH has said the same. WH says he would never cheat again knowing the damage it did. This upsets me because why choose to cheat and not know the consequences?

My H has requested to not talk about my A. It's not spoken about and I find myself wondering often the impact it's had on him.

IMHO I find this odd. I talked non stop about the A. I wanted to know why and details. I wanted to talk about our marriage and what I needed. I talked so much that WH became exhausted and tired of answering the same questions over and over. Are you talking about your marriage? Is he acting like nothing is wrong? Is he acting different than before? Maybe he is processing it and has internalized the A. Have you talked about MC?

[This message edited by Wonderingwhy11 at 12:42 PM, June 24th (Monday)]

Hello All,

This is my first post. I am the WS to my beautiful wife LA44. I am so blessed to have the chance to be 'rebuilder2' with her - it brings a whole new meaning to being thankful for every day. I vow to be worthy of the journey she and I are taking. It takes a great deal of strength and resolve on her part as we both move forward while simultaneously examining the smoldering mess of a past I created.

I am posting here largely to acknowledge how helpful it is to read the viewpoints, experiences and perspectives of so many who have shared. My past with an LTA - as the fog lifts - is sometimes beyond belief. I liken it to seeing footage of yourself in a criminal act or drunk and belligerent and you childishly wish "Can't this tape be erased?". Sorry. No refunds.

I chose this post for my 1st response because I agree with many of this thread's lines; I had to be a master compartmentalizer, act with a sense of entitlement and ignore the simple ethical standards that I have always admired (and for years believed I would hold without fail). I did this too coming from a home which was broken by one of my parent's infidelities. I found that behavior by my father to be repugnant in the decades since my parents' D-day and yet I committed a similar act.

It is these paradoxes which make me shake my head (to say the least) and make me realize there are layers to peel back and examine in order to get to the root.

If I can speak on behalf of my wife, the posts help us to identify what important issues apply to us. The experience of others is invaluable. It gives us a leg-up and - in dark times - the precious hope which all who are committed to recovery will need.

Thank you. Each and every one of you. All the best to those struggling at times, but who, like my loved and loving wife, work toward an immeasurably better tomorrow.

Wow, blobette, you blew me away. Yes, that's me...

a lot of the Ms don't survive. It is difficult to get over the extent of the lying and the tarnishing of memories. In addition, a lot of the BSs seem to have co-dependency/ low expectations of relationships, which becomes unacceptable once they see how much they've been disrespected/how little they're valued. They realize that their WS just doesn't have what it takes to be a truly loving, intimate partner. They may well have developed these low expectations as a result of subtle gaslighting by the WS or simply long-term neglect. Whatever.. The ANGER when you realize the extent to which you've been taken for a ride is just devastating.

I think I will print this out for the "Dear John" letter I will eventually write to him as I make my escape.

My IC says I chose a spouse like my father. He was never around. He was out abusing himself with drugs and alcohol. He was very loving and never harmed me, he just wasn't involved all that much when I was younger...

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 1:01 PM, June 24th (Monday)]

What ever we used to have pre-A we can never have again. I was convinced he could do better than me and was giving him a way out

I think many aspects of my FWH's LTA were symbols of his own feelings of inadequacy, and yes, I think he thought I could do better. He was baffled by the amount of compassion I had for him, and the worth I saw in him, despite how massively pissed off and disappointed I was.

I have seen many WSs in my time here who are doing great things (albeit imperfectly, as human beings tend to do) and yet completely fail to see their own value. IMO, one of the scariest things for a BS in R should be constant shame and self loathing on the part of the WS.

(This is a bit of a t/j since i don't think this applies only to LTAs, but it is what stands out to me.)

IMO, one of the scariest things for a BS in R should be constant shame and self loathing on the part of the WS

Truth!

Sorry Trying33 but if I may use this thread to say to my H, Rebuilder2.

You did it! I am proud of you for posting.

LA

ps: and yes I really do have 500 posts. Maybe 501 now!

Are you talking about your marriage? Is he acting like nothing is wrong? Is he acting different than before? Maybe he is processing it and has internalized the A. Have you talked about MC?

Hi wondering. We are in active R. After much discussion on these boards and a lot of reading I have accepted that everyone deals with things in their own way. My husband is a classic rug sweeper and a conflict avoider. He admits to this and has been his whole life. We've discussed this and he believes for him it serves a purpose and he has always dealt with things this way.

Initially, I thought there was something wrong with HIM as he didn't react like all the other BS's. I couldn't understand why. He is processing it in his own way. The anger seeps out non-verbally and I am tuning into his moods more but on the whole he's calm, relaxed and seems happy. He states he loves me and would never let me self-destruct. He and I are doing the work to make changes. His most important motive for R are the kids. He loves them more than life. That's ok for now. We are learning about each other every day. He's making some drastic sacrifices for me right now (we are moving country) and we are working well as a team.

I always loved my H even throughout the A. This sounds weird to BS's as how could I do this if I loved him? Well, I didn't love myself or I had an artificial love for myself that wasn't authentic. It was all in my head.

As for MC, I think there's space for that, although I am working on myself for now and trying to improve my behaviours and thinking patterns. I would like to start IC before and sort my head out a bit and deal with some long standing insecurities I've had in my M. I am noticing that as I change, my H is mirroring me. He see's my effort and dedication. He see's my transparency without having to ask for it. We may not talk about it, but it's there and we both feel it.

I'm sure there's a huge element of denial on his side too as his pride and ego have been massively bruised. But I can only offer to be there to talk when he's ready. I can't force him. I suspect he's terrified of his emotions if he allows this to register.

I am convinced it will be talked about at some point in our marriage. He just doesn't feel safe enough to talk about it right now. I sense he's waiting for things to stabalise as so far I've been erratic and withdrawal was bad. We are having many more good days than bad and I feel that's a direct consequence of me changing my attitude towards him and my M.

I am prepared to put in all the work. Luckily he is open to suggestions such as reading self-help books etc which is shocking as he's not that type at all.

The one thing I've missed the most during and shortly after the A is PERSPECTIVE. I totally lost the plot to what was real and what wasn't. It's like I planted myself firmly in fantasy land and wasn't prepared to budge.

Welcome to SI rebuilder and well done for your first post. You've made your wife very happy!

I did this too coming from a home which was broken by one of my parent's infidelities. I found that behavior by my father to be repugnant in the decades since my parents' D-day and yet I committed a similar act

I remember during a fight with AP I once told him "the apple never falls far from the tree". It was probably the meanest thing I ever said to him. To him, his father was a hero and a villain all at the same time. The very idea that he may be turning into his father angered him. He was so hurt when I said that.

Trying33

Yes. That post from Rebuilder2 was all gooood.

My A, the pa part, lasted 4 years. It was able to last so long because MOM and I lived in different states and I would travel to his state once every few months for work, or family. My BBF never wanted to travel with me, so it was convenient to see MOM.

My AP was a former boyfriend, should have stayed that way, but there were a lot of unresolved feelings there for me.

I guess I felt entitled, or something. If BBF didn't want to be with me, at least someone did.

I think one of my problems is I keep everything in and "get even" instead of dealing with problems. I found information that led me to believe that my BBF had cheated on me and instead of confront him, took the first opportunity to get even with him.

I do think that for my BBF, the LTA was worse than if it had been a ONS. It ruined all the memories we shared together for him.

Thanks S&T, another long distance LTA. It certainly seems like a variable that fuels an A for a longer length of time.

Do you think as waywards, on some level, it's a strategic choice of choosing an AP that lives so far away and is not a daily reminder of how wrong it all is?

Certainly in my case, I often used the phrase, I would not "shit on my own doorstep". Meaning as long as I'm not rubbing H's face in it and taking the obvious piss out of him, it somehow made it better. It made ME better than those WS's who did it in front of their BS's faces.

I started wondering why I allowed for an opening with xAP to enter into my M. What conditions were present for the A to start (especially as I have always been so against such actions and behaviour, how the hell did it even start????)

Several things came to mind;

He was not connected to my real life in any way. No-one would know. It was completely private. He knew no-one in my real life and there was little risk that people would find out.

He'd been mentioned many times previously despite ever meeting him. We've both worked with the same client for several years and the clients used to talk about him fondly in the same relation to our work. We were both similar in our approach to the work we did. Even before we were formally introduced, I used to wonder what he'd be like. Due to this, when we were finally introduced, it felt easier to attach a romantic component to the whole A. "We were meant to meet, destiny, fate" blah blah blah.

I had had two babies in two years. Just finished nursing and had lost a lot of weight and got back to pre-preg weight after having gained 20kg. Was starting to feel good again and my confidence was coming back. I felt confident enough to accept compliments and did not ward them off like I usually would. Wanted some acknowledgment for all my hard work over the past 2 years. Couldn't give it to myself. I was annoying my H. I was irritating him and he expressed this to me. I internalised this and became furious. Similar to S&T, it was a feeling of "well if you don't want me, someone else does".

I was bored, unstimulated and extremely lonely. The A started as an opportunity to talk about intellectual stuff. Someone who is on the "same level" as me. It's harmless, we're only talking right? And this is how it started.

These are just some thoughts that need digging into. Overwhelmingly, what is obvious is that the A was an easy option. Talking to H and doing the work that H and I are doing now seemed too difficult at that point. Surely, its easier if I just find a friend to talk to and then I'm not on H's back all the time. Maybe he'll love me more if I find an outlet and not always whine and complain?

Just sharing some insight. Please feel free to share any thoughts too.

I don't have time to give details, but wanted to mention that my LTA was a long distance affair.

Yes. I do believe long-distance makes LTAs easier. In my case, the WW's LTA with POS1 was possible because it was long distance. POS1 and WW never stayed in the same city! There were times where the three of us were together, but that was maybe 10 days put together in 6 years!

WGF/WW and I also had to live in different cities at various times in our relationship due to work. So, our relationship was also long-distance (on and off) for half of the time before M. And that also made it easier for them. I was thinking about this a few days back and invariably the A peaked at various times when WW and I were in different cities. When we were together in the same city, the A was very discreet and underground.

It would not have been possible if it was not long distance. I surely would have smelled something. In fact, that is what happened after M. I smelled something fishy just a month in the M. And when POS1 visited us a year after the M, there were red flags all over the place and I was very upset/angry. Just did not confront since I had no evidence.

On the other hand, with POS2, I smelled something right from the beginning and told WW to stay away from it. The whole thing was difficult to hide for them. But I trusted WW also and thought she got the message. Then I had to leave for another country again and her A with POS2 peaked.

The A is basically a fantasy and an escape from reality. The fantasy mutiplies when it is long-distance and the escapes become easier because you have to lie once in a while and not everyday. Also, it becomes easier if you do not have to see your BS immediately after your rendezvous with the AP.

I am finding this thread very interesting hearing WS thoughts on LTA's. It is helping me understand my WWs 12+ year LTA.

My AP was a former boyfriend, should have stayed that way, but there were a lot of unresolved feelings there for me.

That is exactly what my WW mentioned. She felt she didn't have closure in the relationship. Today I still don't understand what that means.

My WW's LTA was not long distance though I can see how this sometimes factors in on these. Something that is a bit unusual in our situation is that we didnt really have any issues in our M at all - we both felt things were going well most of the time. My WW's LTA started when we first met and continued after we got married. To me lack of problems in the M really shows that the below statement is often an important part of LTAs.

I believe that a longterm A indicates a problem within the WS. An attachment disorder, a personality disorder, an addiction, something that allows them to persist in betrayal for so long. As the scales fall from our eyes after dday, many BS see in our own relationships with our WS that defect that allowed them to be "comfortable" with a LTA. That defect, whatever it is, must be identified and addressed for there to be any hope of R and a healthier relationship.

I am still trying to understand my WW issues. She has made mention that OM1 treated her badly. I have always treated my wife gently and kind. Why she could choose to stay in a bad relationship when she had a good one going is puzzling.

I understand that all A's are different and a ONS has its own issues that are much different than a LTA. Sickandtired I sadly have to agree with your BBF, I would trade the LTA I am dealing with for a ONS any day. I actually suspect that it is likely my WW had a few ONSs along the way but havent even pursued finding out if this is true or not because they seam so much less significant. OM2 is not a LTA situation really and I found dealing with that to be very easy actually. Tainted memories are much more difficult to come to terms with. Starting over when you have invested so much in already is always difficult.

crappylife, just got through reading your story. Don't know what to say really so won't say anything apart from SI has truly been an eye opener for me. I'm sorry for what you've been through.

Compartmentalisation and being good at switching on/off within seconds seems like it's a must in LTA as two lives are being lived simultaneously for so long. The sustainability factor is the ability to go from one to another with ease and without it being obvious. Indeed, it becomes a part of your life and your daily behaviours.

When I look back, the way I put things in boxes would probably seem psycho to an onlooker. I'd go from one world into another so easily and became a master at perfecting my skills to service each world. The mind boggles.

On a positive note. I've found a great therapist in the country I'm moving to. I'm strangely excited about starting this journey of self-exploration.

Thanks trying. Getting through it one day at a time. I have read all about compartmentalisation and fog. Strangely, I seem to understand it when I look at all the other stories on SI. But, when it comes down to my personal situation, I just dont seem to get it.

I am still trying to understand my WW issues. She has made mention that OM1 treated her badly. I have always treated my wife gently and kind. Why she could choose to stay in a bad relationship when she had a good one going is puzzling.

Ditto. Exactly my thoughts.

[This message edited by CrappyLife at 1:52 PM, June 27th (Thursday)]

Interestingly, my FWH was in an LTA and was a terrible compartmentalizer. Just awful. He felt guilty, so pushed me away and mistreated me. He was living a double life, but not very successfully. I have a hard time imagining it when other BS's say that their WS never changed during an A. Mine did, drastically, and I thought it was my fault. I tried like crazy to get us help (into MC, or anything) but you can't push a rope, and he wasn't budging, at least until it was obvious I was on the brink of divorcing him.

I don't doubt that it helps to be a good compartmentalizer, but it is not a requirement for an LTA.

I am joining this thread late, and have not read all of the post, but a one thing jumped out at me.

The addictive or obsessive quality of a long term affair.

I have addictive and obsessive traits and as long as I was getting a payoff- the contact continued. My primary contact was email, although there were a couple of dinners (and mind you this was with a former AP from 14 years ago), but during the height of this email contact, I was pushing form more dinners and meetings.

I am working on this with my IC and she is seeing a pattern in me of addictive traits. My AP, porn, shopping, and a definite compulsive leaning of my personality.

Add to that my ability to compartmentalize...an example of this. My BW knew something was off in our M. we went to MC about 2 or 3 years ago and she flat out asked me when the last time I had spoken, or seen AP #1. I told her it has been 14 years, and I believed my lie. I was so able to shut down that part of me, that I was able to lie to her and myself...I was emotionless, had no feelings that I was not telling the truth. I remember just thinking it was true.

So I agree, my LTA is a sign of how broken I was/still am.