SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I started not to reply because I am not neutral with you at all... I am on your side!

Now with the disclaimer out of the way and having read through, I want to say that humor is a defense mechanism, don't know if that is the case here. I know I have joked about some things going through my own situation that made other people's eyebrows raise, but it was my own joke at my own situation, so not exactly the same.

What I do want to say is that "bashing" your ex, is a way of supporting you to some people. I see it in my own life and I see it here on SI. Solidarity. Of course he is a POS, asshole, lower muppet and FTG!! You know?

So who says what is offensive? Language in and of itself? Some words have been highlighted as offensive to some and not to others. Words that are inflammatory (I am chuckling here, because my definition of inflammatory has really really changed) are not used. Words that bash a person for being gay or minority, are not done. But sexuality choices are bashed every time a thread goes into OW bashing.

I think that the level of sensitivity to the bashing shows a level of detachment from the hurt of the betrayal. A healthy distance from it, that the meanness in the counter attack makes you uncomfortable. I am still pretty comfortable with that meanness so I don't think I have reached that level yet. I might not get there!

All of that to say, that the person who awkwardly handles the news about one person who obviously hurt you, might not have universal views that are narrow or bigoted.

My reaction to your description of the conversation is that I think this guy was asking for cues from you for the direction to take. If you had jumped in with name calling and bashing, I bet the joke would have been there. But at least he was sensitive to ask if he could offend you before he did so????

I understand what you are looking for and trying to do. I think that I would try to filter in a few other ways and increase the odds that the person is open minded.

As for the early sharing of the my ex has a bf. Maybe stick with gender neutral SO for a while. Early dates aren't going to meet your kids so I think the information can wait. I would not feel entitled to that information about my date or upset if it came later. You are not misleading or hiding anything. This information is not even about you, it is about something that impacts you and your children, but this guy? Any new guy? He doesn't warrant that level of disclosure yet. Think of the early dates as interviews. You aren't bringing this out at an interview when you go job searching, right? I think the reasoning is similar.

Ok....so you realize it is important to you to give them this information early on in the process.

The response you can expect will be varied. People say stupid stuff when they are not sure what to say.

Soooo - what about changing the flavor of what you tell them? I mean, still tell them but add a following sentence so they are clear on what you think and they don't instantly put their foots in their mouths?

Like "ok...this is what happened. It is important to me that people in my family's life are sensitive to it and respectful of all involved, including of my children's father"

If someone is a bigot or gay basher....they are not going to be able to 'candy-coat' their response to you....nor will they care to.

At least you will be tipping them off to how important this is and that jokes are not welcomed?

As for the soccer game moms (and everyone else you will have to encounter)....I am sure someone here can think of a snappy comeback to put them in their place? This group is so good at that.

Edited for afterthoughts....I would answer that guy that "heck yes" I am sensitive to this. I wouldn't of been put off by his urge to make a joke. I have been through some horrible stuff and I cope via humor. However, if I knew it was not acceptable to you....I wouldn't joke about it. I think that is what he was saying/asking?

[This message edited by EvenKeel at 12:53 PM, July 18th (Thursday)]

Stop being so judgy.

I'm trying to make sure I'm not judging him...hence why I posted on here.

The update is that he sent me a huge apology via email and asked for a second chance.

I need to think.

I guess I look at it as the fact that your x is gay is NOT about you, not about getting to know you. The fact that Mr. Date has an x that is a druggie is not relevant to me meeting him and getting to know him, though the fact that he is the sole parent to his kids is. The reason why is not needed right now. If I had gone out on a few dates with Mr. Date and really liked him, then found out why he had his kids all the time, well, I may or may not decide to continue dating him, because I would have to decide if bringing that kind of drama around is something I wanted to deal with, but if he told me right away that my x is a drug addict, never sees the kids etc instead of just saying the kids live with me full time, I may run, and never get to understand that his x lives in a program on the other side of the country and he never has to deal with her, you know? Him starting the conversation with that is like he's trying to scare me off, if that makes sense.

As far as a bigot goes? Even without the info that your x is gay, you WILL see that he's a bigot by the 3rd date or so. Someone that is like that may be able to hide their feelings for a date or two, but as soon as they are the littlest bit comfy, they are going to make some comment about someone walking by, the waitress at the restaurant, or the two guys having wings at the next table. They will show their true colours, quickly.

I'm lousy at this dating thing. I truly am, but I've had quite a few first dates where the guy I'm having lunch with (or whatever) can't stop bashing his ex wife, or brings up other things that just show me who they truly are...and I know they aren't someone I am going to want to see again before I even learn that they have whatever other issues going on in their lives that would have sent me running.

Does that make sense? As far as when to tell...well, again, I don't think there is a set number of dates, but if you two have had a few dates, are enjoying each other's company, he's gotten to know you and see how well you have it all together, the fact that your x is gay isn't really a red flag then...because they know YOU, and know that it doesn't affect YOU. It's just something that you deal with from your past, not something that defines you.

Heck, people run away from first dates, or even before for the stupidest reasons. I had one guy that I was just talking on the phone with, hadn't even met yet decide he didn't want to go out with me because I said I enjoyed playing video games with my kids. He was like, oh, really? You enjoy video games? Too bad. Bye! Damn! I didn't say I was a major gamer who can't go out on Tuesdays because I have to go to my sonic the sledgehog group that night!

I've decided that dating at this age is backwards. When we were young, everyone accepted everyone and just went out because they seemed fun, were pretty, or whatever. Now, we look for reasons to shoot people down before we even know anything about them really. It's just easier to say no and run away for stupid stuff, not for the reasons that really matter.

Cmego you have all my feels for this one because it's both cut & dried and not, all at the same time.

My brother is gay, he told me for the first time right after I graduated high school, so what's that? 25 years ago?

He immediately became my Acme Insta-Litmus Test for dating and friendship making. I wasn't going to date/marry or hang out with anyone who had an issue with homosexuality.

But I equally had to learn how to let innocent jokes roll off my back in the same way I do slightly misogynistic jokes and blonde jokes and jokes about how all Southerners are racist and stupid. I had to find a balance between what was truly a joke versus what was an hidden attitude. So I tend to cut people some slack. A silly joke? Ok. A reference to wanting to make a joke? Ok. A mean-spirited joke? Not ok. Repetitive silly jokes? Not ok.

In other words, I don't immediately cut people off at the knees for innocent stupidity & harmless intent, even if I sometimes say "well hey now" & enlighten them to the error of their ways. But for people like the person at your daughter's game? Them? I cut off at the knees.

[This message edited by cayc at 1:57 PM, July 18th (Thursday)]

From what you wrote here it seems like you were oversharing for a first date.

His remark was out of line, but I wasn't there so it is hard to know without hearing his tone or noticing his body language.

Was he nervous and accidentally said something he regretted? Was he trying to get on your good side and not knowing you made a mistake?

Or is he immature? Into bathroom humor like a teen boy? Insensitive?

You decide.

First dates should be very casual with light conversation. It's just a first meeting for both people to decide if they want to have another date.

He isn't the only one out there. By all means if you're uncomfortable toss him back. There are plenty more out there.

OK...here is what is bothering me. He apologized and even said, "I don't know you and that was out of line...I knew I shouldn't have said it as soon as I sent the email."

What he DIDN'T say was "I shouldn't make jokes about gay people."

I don't know a single person in my shoes. Not ONE. There isn't a club out there for dealing with both a gay ex AND infidelity website while you are dating with small kids. Those dealing with former husbands who are gay are full of male bashing and whining/crying (in my experience). I am in territory that no one else in my life can relate to. The only women I've met in a similar situation are either older, he didn't cheat, came out of the closet later, and no kids around. So...a clean "break". They just walked out of each other's lives.

For the next 10 years, ex and bf are going to be at soccer games, school functions, a very visible part of my children's lives. We are going to be teased, talked about, discussed, and misunderstood. I have minimized that for now...but it is coming. So, the

"man for me" HAS to be Ok with this. More than OK...accepting.

I can roll with a few light jokes, and I do say things about myself...like..."I don't know...I was married to a gay man!" when discussing "men".

In my experience, sharing it later is an even bigger shock. Like the guy on the first date who just pounded down the beers. This isn't like a skeleton in my closet... sharing he cheated on me for the entire marriage...this is my life. It isn't the past, it is the present. The cheating and marriage is the past and I rarely bring that up.

No guy has said to me, "You don't seem to be over your ex." You guys here know me better than most...the ex is the ex. I do NOT bash. I do NOT talk about him unless specific questions are asked. I tell guys I am open to whatever they want to know, but in the "early, light stages" I simply say we co-parent together well and do everything we can for our kids.

I have had enough guys react poorly now to know it can be an issue.

I think I'm probably going to be honest with this new guy, but I'm going to think on it a while longer. By honest, I mean that making a joke in the 3rd email to me (where I didn't make an initial joke at all. I can see if I joked, "yeah...how 'bout me! I don't gaydar, my ex is GAY! Ha, ha!!) makes me uncomfortable. He overstepped a boundary that he didn't know was there...I'll give him that. Well, wait. No. If I am respectful of my ex and our situation...and ex's situation (I simply said the ex and partner live in XX) what right did he have to make a joke? And this wasn't a "So two gay men walk into a bar joke"...we were discussing that I am primarily a vegetarian. He was discussing back that he eats meat and wanted to "insert a joke about your ex but didn't know how sensitive you are". It was going to be an off color/sexual joke.

I haven't responded and don't plan to until at least tomorrow. My gut is telling me he is a closet bigot. I think he knows he screwed up with me...and I'm wondering if it wouldn't taint everything anyway.

Still need processing time.

SI rocks.

Cmego, I am not in your shoes but I can sympathize. I really have 2 thoughts on the issue beyond what others have said:

1) If you're not really attracted to this guy anyway, then just move on. Why bother agonizing over this? (I mean this in the nicest way possible.)

2) You just can't put words in people's mouths. My WH never said the right thing at the right time. This guy could be sincere and not a bigot whatsoever but just didn't quite say exactly what you thought he should.

But...in the end...there are a lot of guys out there so just let this one go unless you're drooling over him. It doesn't sound like you are so...NEXT! :)

I'll say one more thing. I do agree with others that you don't need to necessarily come out of the starting gate with "OMG my ex is gay!!" A close family member of mine is gay and there is no way I would tolerate bigotry. That said, step 1 is figuring out if you even have chemistry. Step 2 down the road is divulging personal information...slowly. If you can get past the chemistry stage, you can usually also tell whether someone has the maturity of a gnat. My advice (which is worth nothing): don't email back and forth. Meet for a quick coffee and either it's there or not.

Hugs.

No doubt you are in a unique situation with few in exactly the same boat. It must be really hard. I am angry on your behalf at what that idiot said about your ex at the soccer game.

It just seems that you are already stressing about mr date being involved in your family life in the future. It seems like you are way way jumping the gun.

Early dates are simply to see if you like eachother enough to get through a meal. Keep the convo light. Do a few simple fun things.

I think you are putting guys on the spot right away, and if I were mister date I would find it TMI.

Maybe his dumb joke was a nervous flub, an awkward attempt to appear non challant when he was stressed by your TMI. Maybe he IS an asshole. You don't know because you spilled the beans while he is a stranger.

I have the impression, which could be dead wrong, but it seems like over sharing challenging info is a way for you to keep all potential suitors at an arms length.

I wonder if your search for bigotry might be more forward than it needs to be. In my experience, bigots make themselves known pretty quickly.

I've had dates go on about how their ex was an alcoholic while I'm enjoying a glass of wine. My completely asshole reaction? Order a second glass. If she's going to trip about me having a second glass, then she's too triggery around the issue.

I guess my point is that if I get a sense that I'm being interviewed, and my reactions are being judged, it's no longer a date, but rather an audition. And if you do feel like you are auditioning men rather than dating them, is that a frame of mind that allows you to be open to their charms?

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 1:15 AM, July 19th (Friday)]

Trust me, guys, it isn't an "overshare".

In six paragraphs, it is a one line answer to a question. "What is your custody schedule..." Or..."what brought you to XXX (city)?" or..."wow, you have primary custody?" Or, they hear that I am a full time student with 2 small kids, on my own, volunteer work and artist. They want to know how I handle it all...

I'm not going to "skirt" the issue because it is "overshare". I'm going to answer honestly, succinctly with no emotions. Then I switch back to MY interests...and try to get to know THEM. The guys are the ones that then focus on this "issue". I don't know too many heterosexual men that are completely comfortable with homosexuality/bisexuality...unless they have a family member/ friend that is gay.

I've tried not bringing up until later...that didn't work either. Most of the guys are completely cool...because they can see I don't bring it up again. It is what it is.

I'm not going to try and change anyones opinion. I just prefer guys who are at least open. Guys joking with other guys...yeah...that is going to happen. Guys making a sexual joke about ex in an email to me is simply inappropriate. Wether it is a one time social "oops", my blood went cold when I read it. I can't change my reaction to make him feel more comfortable. That would be like my marriage...forever tempering my reactions to make someone else happy/comfortable.

Now, I have learned to take a step back and evaluate my reaction before responding. YEAH therapy! I never respond with emotion...I pull back and think. If I'm not talking to a guy...it is probably more "dangerous" because that means I'm thinking/evaluating myself and my reactions.

It isn't fair to this guy that my blood went cold. It isn't fair to me to sweep my reaction under the rug to "see if this was a social oopsie". I no longer want to meet him and I will kindly tell him and be done.

I just know that no matter when I tell a guy my ex is gay...they are going to be shocked and there will be some type of reaction. At least 30% are going to react poorly or poof.

WHEN to tell them is the sticky wicket.

It is like the two guys I've dates that were fWS's. How far in SHOULD they have told me? One told me before we met, we discussed and I still gave him a chance. Once we met, we didn't see eye-to-eye (he wasn't remorseful but full of excuses). The other guy told me on our first date.

Let me tell you, that sucked. I have a mouth full of food, we are getting to know each other and he tells me he cheated on his wife and left her for the gf. So, *I* would rather know up front, be given time to process a little, look at their reactions, be allowed to ask a few questions, then be allowed to proceed with full information. Which I did in both cases. The "first date fWS" and I went on 3 more dates before I just knew he wasn't in a good place yet.

I don't think there is a right answer. I just have to go with my gut and hope it works out.

they are going to be shocked and there will be some type of reaction

You know what? Fuck people who judge you for your personal tragedy. Honestly, that's what this is. I may only know you virtually, but I know that you aren't telling people your story in a throw down the gauntlet challenging way, you're just saying, "hey, I'm here today as is b/c this happened". Because the issue ISN'T that your xWH is gay, it's that he lied to you for the entirety of your M making it a sham M. That's what you are coping with. A double betrayal of infidelity AND a sham M. That your xWH is gay? That has nothing to do with it.

The men/people you want in your life? The ones who respond "oh honey, that must have been tough, I really admire you for coping as well as you have." Fuck anybody else who hones in on the gay part. It's nothing but a red herring. You need to remember that.

The men/people you want in your life? The ones who respond "oh honey, that must have been tough, I really admire you for coping as well as you have." Fuck anybody else who hones in on the gay part. It's nothing but a red herring. You need to remember that.

Thank you, cayc. I think that is the reaction that best suits me and my kids.

Sorry, I got the wrong impression. From your last post, I understand better where you're coming from.

Question for you and I am not asking to offend or upset just curious, why do you feel you need to tell potential dates that particular piece of information so early in the process?

Bingo. I know this has already been mentioned and I understand your response. I was very turned off by guys that shared too much in the "screening" stage. One went back damn near to his first wet dream. And that was in the first 45 min.

You can get a good feel of how they are. Any racism or bigotry and there would be no way.

I know that you say you're 3 years out and 90% over it but if you come to terms with that it will be presented by you when the time comes in such a way that there won't be any need for a response.

I think it's still very hard for you and have a feeling they' could be reacting to that as much as the "gay" piece. I don't know anyone who doesn't have gay friends or family members. I don't think it's a foreign concept along with knowing sometimes coming out is a very painful process with casualties like girl friends and marriages along the way.

I know that you say you're 3 years out and 90% over it but if you come to terms with that it will be presented by you when the time comes in such a way that there won't be any need for a response.

I think it's still very hard for you and have a feeling they' could be reacting to that as much as the "gay" piece.

Nah. I check in with my IC every now and then. I've asked her point blank how I'm doing. She agrees I am very much over my marriage. Honestly, I can't imagine a time it won't hurt a little...ever. But, I group that in with the same feeling I have with having 3 miscarriages. I have two healthy children and would not change anything. But, I still experience pain when discussing the babies I lost. Same feeling...at least to me. I lost those babies over 10 years ago, still painful.

IC and I discuss the remainder of my healing will probably be in a supportive relationship. I just need the right guy to come along

I've seen the reactions, the looks, the responses when I tell guys. I've been at the soccer games, I've heard the gay jokes, the "why didn't you KNOW?" questions, I've seen the pity looks, the confused looks, the guys that poof. The ones that tell me they "just don't understand how...."

Am I frustrated that I have an additional...burden...beyond infidelity? Yeah, today I am. It literally sucks that I KNOW some men are going to not be interested because of choices by my ex. But, it can't be changed. It is what it is. I just have to figure out how to weed them out without getting attached first. KWIM?

SI ~ I can vent and think without exposing the peeps IRL. My peeps protect me and don't necessarily give me a neutral place to think.

[This message edited by cmego at 1:30 PM, July 19th (Friday)]

I also live in the midwest-very conservative area and I do not think its a big deal to let people know this information sooner than later.

There are less people who accept homosexuality here than those who are bigots. Although I see that it is changing with my kids' generation.

Maybe this guy was using humor as a defense mechanism because he was shocked or he was trying to deflate the tension.

Doesn't mean he is a bigot, maybe he just uses humor to deflect.

I know I have shocked many, many people with my sense of humor and dry wit through my roller coaster.

The other day an old friend commented on my weight loss. He had just heard THAT day of my WS affair.

I said to him and his wife "Yeah, I get down to my hs weight so I guess that means my (WS) can put his dick in someone else."

AWKWARD.

Then I was like...sorry sorry...it was bad!

Humor IS a way of connecting people.

And everyone's sense of humor is different. My niece is mixed and she will sit down with me and tell me the most ridiculous racial jokes ever. Because she's comfortable with me and the subject.

Maybe it was just a mutual case of awkward.

I lost those babies over 10 years ago, still painful.

I get that. We lost a twin. Stillborn. I'll never "get over" that. I also wouldn't tell someone on a first date.

I know it's a little different with your ex. I still feel that it's a pretty big piece to share on a first date.

If you'd "lose" someone because of that information not a real loss. I know getting it out there can save future heartache, possibly. I also think that someone's initial reaction may not be how they'd react after some time to get to know you. Assumptions can be made about someone based on how information is revealed and when that may not be accurate.

I'm sorry you're having to go through this. I kind of get a little of that as I live in a rather small town. When some would find out who my ex was they'd be less interested as he's rather intimidating. It's who they'd have to deal with so if they have an issue then that was better they didn't hang around.

The right one will be supportive and not judgmental. Mine was.

The right one will be supportive and not judgmental. Mine was.

^^^^this.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.

My dad divorced my mom because he was gay and my brother is also gay.

One of my ex boyfriends was always so paranoid about my brother. Was worried that he would be checking him out. Like really? I'm his sister he doesn't do that. And I told him that he wasn't his type anyways and he almost looked insulted!

I think men have a hard time with this because they question their own sexuality and wonder if it could possibly happen to them.

I give you kudos for not putting up with the crap people say and wanting to make this easy for your children. And yes, you should be upfront about it.

My dad was gay and I didn't care, he was still my dad and I loved him. I had relatives and friends make comments they thought were funny and quite frankly they just hurt. It's not like we asked for that. My dad got married and had kids because that is what they did back then. They had to hide who they were.

No child should be made to feel ashamed of their parent because they are gay.

Edited to add that my parents were married for 12 years and my mom had no idea that he was gay, until he finally told her.

[This message edited by Lilypad at 9:51 AM, July 20th (Saturday)]