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Okay so....

Heard coyotes started howling from her direction while walking. Srsly.

I got back to her and said let's get you home. I mean I dislike her severely right now but not enough to let her get eaten by coyotes.

Anyways, home now. Will be sleeping in spare bed. Talk more to you all tonight.

Hooooowwwwwwwwwwwwllllllll.....,TR

coyotes... thats foreboding. sorry it went south.

anyway, get ready for some manipulation starting NOW (that whole blanket thing was just the start).

She may use sex, plead her love, try and convince you otherwise. Remember, its her ACTIONs not her WORDs you should pay attention to. Demand NC, transparency, full access, truth, end of the A's and all inappropriate friendships, no more gallivanting about etc.. etc.. you know what I mean; IC etc.. don't expose her to SI yet, she may use information from here against you. You may use the books (recommended in the healing library) or other resources if she asks for guidance/help. just not SI yet. You shouldn't put up with any more abuse nor manipulation. If she's not willing to give up AP or her A lifestyle, I guess you're pretty firm on filing and good on you.

Demand NC, transparency, full access, truth, end of the A's and all inappropriate friendships, no more gallivanting about etc.. etc.

If I have read things correctly, he's already done all that. He titled his post 'The Last Stand'. This is it. There can be no more chances. She laid down beside him and I'm sure fully expected this to just blow over as it has in the past.

See a lawyer! Find out what your rights are, and file for D. Nothing says 'I mean business' like filing for D.

If a miracle occurs and she makes the necessary changes, he can always stop the process, but I'm afraid if he doesn't file now, things will NEVER change and he is trapped in a never ending cycle of manipulation.

I'm so sorry temporalreset, I know you are in agony, and I'm afraid things may get much much worse before they get better whether you R or D. But I think the only real power you have here is to back up your words and file for D.

Also read up on borderline personality disorder. Your wife resembles some of those symptoms.

Stay strong,

PPGA

Your wife is deeply and passionately in love with......her marriage. She'll do anything to keep that and the family, [including MIL], intact.

You she has no strong feelings about, other than resentment.

Your decision; to remain married while she screws around, [there will be other OM's in her search for deeper emotional fulfillment], or move on.

I think 4 years is enough; time to pull the plug.

Sending strength for whatever direction you choose.

Hugs too,

K

I told her I'd start on the sep agreement and D papers and have them to her asap.

You need to follow through on this. Seriously.

Divorce can be stopped at any point along the way. But you are 4 years into Affair-land and she shows no indication, none, of changing her affair behavior.

We have two children, 3 and 6. She stays at home with the children and I work a 12 hour night shift 6am-6pm.

I won't discount her SAD, because I deal with a mild case. Speaking bluntly, sounds like your wife is bored. (*You* are not boring.) And she needs to get motivated. Find a job. Find an IC. Find some direction in her life.

I'm not saying your M is over, but right now it's a joke. You both deserve better.

Seriously. File the D papers.

Then look to see how her actions match her words.

My reading is that your W lacks boundaries, and probably the only way for her to build them is some serious IC with building boundaries as her goal. That's the only way I see for her to stop betraying herself and whoever she's partnered with.

I also sense that you'd prefer R to D. Is that correct? If so, I encourage you to lay out your requirements for R ASAP, even while you file.

If you both know what your requirements are, you can combat manipulation more easily. That is, you can compare whatever she says or does to the requirements and discount the crap.

Just an idea - since you've been lurking, I imagine you know you're under no obligation to take any advice at all.

Also, don't think of what you're doing as growing a set of balls. Being betrayed is awful, and nothing in life prepares us for handling it. You tried loving her back into the M in '09-'10, and that's an intuitively correct approach. It didn't work. Now you're trying out tactics that are new to you and non-intuitive. Instead of beating yourself up for past actions, celebrate the fact that you've found new ones and are open to trying them out.

Thank you all!

I'm seeing everyone's replies I just don't have time to write much until I get to work tonight.

Thanks for the support. Will see you all later.

TR

Here''s something for you to read, If You Love Them, Divorce Them, http://www.survivinginfideltiy.com/forums.asp?tid469167 I hope I copied that correctly as I am copying from one machine to another. I hope it''s of some help to you.

Edited to say, cayotes have only attacked and killed one person in recorded history 1900 to now. So next time, keep walking.

[This message edited by Skan at 2:29 PM, August 1st, 2013 (Thursday)]

Just an observation on one piece of your story. I suspect that you are using humor or jokiness as a way to deal with your pain. But I am disturbed that you are joking about strangling your wife in anger, seriously bruising her leg, etc. WTF, man, it's not funny -- I hope this is something you are working on in IC.

FWIW, I think you are right to D you WW. She's a mess and you are getting good advice about that.

Will be getting to last night and today soon, but this is one I had to respond to right away

But I am disturbed that you are joking about strangling your wife in anger, seriously bruising her leg, etc. WTF, man, it's not funny -- I hope this is something you are working on in IC.

StrongerOne,

I understand how you could get this feeling from what I wrote. Please believe me that the 'strangling' on the beach is something I am not proud of or making light of. I had hoped I made that obvious in my original post. I do not condone violence against anyone whatsoever. Fact, I had never been in a violent confrontation in my entire life up until that point and have not been since. It has been discussed with my IC the day after it happened and we both understand it was a one time event.

As for the leg thing, sorry, I was trying to bring the tone back up a little bit by sharing a story of a playful incident gone wrong and I would ask that you go back and re-read those sections of my post with this explanation in mind.

TR

StrongerOne and other members. I have added a disclaimer to my initial post before the section describing my violent actions. I hope this will clarify my intentions and my remorse for those events.

TR

[This message edited by TemporalReset at 5:44 PM, August 1st (Thursday)]

Okay, here goes.

07/31/13

Woke up that afternoon (work nights, remember?) just as she came home from grocery shopping with her mother and picking the boys up from camp.

Made plans to go to a nice beach nearby around 5:00pm.

Had a lot of fun with the boys, we ran into a couple who we hadn't seen in a while whose daughter is the same age as our oldest. Chatted for a while, had a great time. Sun was 45 min from setting, beautiful sky, would post a pic of it if I could post pictures. She asked me to hold her while we talked with the other couple.

We eventually got everyone in the car and I asked if she wanted to come with me back to the beach to watch the sun actually set. We sat and she cuddled with me and as the sun was setting she kissed me very passionately. Now I realize that she was probably trying to manipulate me to show she can be affectionate knowing what was coming. I enjoyed it, enjoyed what was to potentially be our last sunset together but it did not sway me from my path.

We got home, put the boys to bed and (I stated in earlier brief update posts, she tried to wiggle out of going) collected her into the car to head to the beach where we first met.

Parked, walked to the beach, nearly the spot where we sat our first night together.

Basic conversation:

Me: So?

Her: I just want to get this out there, thank you for doing this 10 days after my birthday....

M: Yeah, uh, sure?

H: So nothing has changed since we last talked about this, you don't want to listen and see how nice I've made your life, how affectionate I've become, all the things I do for you and the boys....

M: Umm, as I've said, several, several, several times....yes I have, but you still want to pretend you did nothing wrong. You won't even admit you had an EA and texted sexual messages to OM. Now you want me to be okay with you still seeing him.

H: Yes. I understand what I did was wrong and it won't happen again! And see, I'm trying to make your life so nice now, but I can't live without my friend.

M: Yes it will happen again. Sorry, need this cancer out of my life.

H: (getting angrier) You know you should divorce me, I don't think I want to be married anymore to a man who can't let me be who I am. You're trying to control me and don't want me to have friends.

M: No, I don't want you to have a friend that you share dreams of moving away to the south of France with to raise goats and share sexual texts...

H: (interrupting me) So now I'm not supposed to have dreams?!?!? (much angrier) Fine, you write me up a list of dreams I'm allowed to have!!!!

M: (I'm now trying really hard not to laugh, seriously) Yeah, I'm not trying to restrict your dreams, just you having them WITH ANOTHER MAN. You can't go about sharing yourself like this with another man, doing the things you did, taking affection and intimacy away from me and giving it to someone else!

H: Who says? (Yes, she said this. Those exact words. This conversation was turning into a dark comedy)

M: Umm, your vows? Morality? Common sense? Common decency?.....Shall I go on?

H: Something, blah, something something, blah.....

M: (I cut her off) You shared yourself with another man! Emotionally, intimately and romantically!

H: I'm done, you interrupt me...I have to listen to you but you don't have to listen to me?!?!?!

M: I'll write up the separation and divorce papers as soon as I can and get them to you.

And the conversation ended there. I sat where I was, so did she, we didn't say anything. I eventually got up and walked down to the water. If you've never seen bio-luminescent algae you should put it on your bucket list. There happened to be a bloom right there where I was. As I kicked the water, these little shooting stars followed my wake wherever the water was disturbed. 100X more entertaining than fireflies and I luuuuuv fireflies.

She came to where I was after a minute. We played with the algae together but I kept my distance from her. She made small talk. I responded calmly and confidently, but very tersely. I would step away and she would move to where I was.

She said she knew I wanted to stay there. I told her she could take the car and go, that I'd walk. She didn't respond but didn't leave. A little while later she asked me to come home with her. I clarified my position of me wanting to stay and that she could go. She asked me to come home again. I told her I was staying and she walked away. Now, I realized I had the keys to the car in my pocket and I walked back to the blanket. I tried to hand her the car keys but she said she was staying. That's when she lay down on the blanket. I already covered the coyotes in a previous post so briefly I eventually came back to the blanket and took her home.

We got home and after a bit she headed into our room and got in bed, leaving the door open. As I came out of the bathroom I saw her in there and very quickly walked up, said good night and shut the door. I went to sleep in the spare bed we have in the boys room.

Next morning I get up and MIL has taken the boys to the lake leaving just her and I.

Okay, information I haven't provided till now because it wasn't pertinent. We have a community house. We have visitors from time to time that come and stay, male/female, most of them are young students who we've met over the years (visiting from Russia). Please don't read anything into this (like her having a harem there), these are all really good kids and they respect our relationship and the rules of the house. Currently have two boys, age 21 staying until the end of September.

Anyways. I went outside and sat down to have a smoke. She follows me outside and starts small talk. Then she says....

H: I know it would be hard, but I think you should sleep with me in our bed.

M: K, why?

H: Because it raises too many questions and it would be difficult to explain to everyone.

M: Umm, that's our marriage bed and we don't have a marriage anymore, I really wouldn't be comfortable staying there. Plus, they're going to have to be told eventually.

H: …..(she got sad? Upset slightly? I couldn't label the emotion correctly)

M: I'll think about it. (Yes a moment of backtracking on my part, but I've already realized it was an attempt to manipulate me and I will continue sleeping in the spare bed)

And....well....that's it.

That's where we are. Tonight I am writing up the separation agreement and divorce papers and should be able to give them to her tomorrow or Saturday to review and discuss.

I think I walked into work today for the first time in a year with my head held high. I was happy and talking to people, shaking hands....euphoric. Think some people actually noticed the difference from a couple looks I got.

TR - On to respond to your myriad of posts from last night into today.

PS: I have had so many hindsight moments today where I came up with the perfect thing to say in response to things she said on the beach last night. Ooooooo I hate that so much!

PPS: Worst part is I could short-circuit this whole mess by talking to the OM. Honestly, I know he'd listen and back off. But I don't want to take her toy away....I want her to realize she shouldn't be playing with it in the first place.

Depending on the skill of her IC she has also may have been given the tools to develop relationships that are marriage friendly. She hasn't been able to put that into practice either.

Redrock,

She hasn't done IC since a bit after she chose me after A1. Speaking of no boundaries, she has actually become the occasional friend with her IC. They met a few times for coffee, thereby rendering him useless as her IC in the future. (Their meeting were innocent, he has an interest in her home country and she was showing him pics from her trip there with the boys) I've seen their texts, he asks about me and the boys and they've only met a couple times over 2 years. But still, boundary crossed, damage done.

Having young children can be isolating, I have been there. But there are healthy ways to expand your friendships and not so healthy.

IMO, I think that not much good can come from hanging out in a restaurant/bar to 'meet people'. No matter how pretty the garden.

How many people with great boundaries are meeting 'friends' in that environment? Take away the garden and it is a women seeking company while drinking.

Redrock,

Yes, her life is isolating, and early on we did nothing about it. After A1 I tried to get her to: get a job, pick up a hobby, make new healthy friends but she's lazy, doesn't know where to start, doesn't have confidence in herself.

I diverge from your opinion on the going out to bars. I'm not one to want to restrict where she goes. Face it, threats are everywhere, from the playground to social/hobby groups to the library. She didn't meet A2 OM in a bar, she met him by walking into his business. Threats are everywhere and anywhere. What she needs is a reset on her world view of fidelity and the boundaries that come with it.

No, she doesn't stay home with the children. It sounds like your MIL does while your wife goes galavanting around town picking up men. That's what it is. She makes it sound rather romantic with the whole 'beautiful garden' scene, but, come on, lets call a spade a spade, and take off the rose colored glasses...she sounds like a bored spoiled brat.

Let me tell you something, any woman on this site can tell you that being a mom to 2 kids the age of yours is a FULL TIME JOB if she is doing what she is supposed to be doing. Shit, when my kids were that age, I barely had time to breathe much less galavant around town looking at beautiful gardens. (BTW, I adore gardens, but I planted my own, taught my children how, ate fresh produce, canned, and pickled and cooked healthy nourishing meals every single night). I'm not trying to toot my own horn here, but trying to get you to realize that your wife is a self-absorbed woman that appears to be USING you.

PPGA,

I know what it looks like from the very brief description of what I posted, however you are wrong with this. She does take care of our children, very well in fact. She has turned our home into a virtual oasis with everything from beautiful flowers to tons of different edible things. My children are obsessed with the garden and she has exposed them to it since birth. She likes to say she grows children and plants.

After the boys are in bed and the day is over she takes time for herself while I'm at work. I have no problem with this. She doesn't go off gallivanting around town 7 days a week all day long. She works hard at home, she does just about everything around the house, cooking cleaning etc. so the occasional night out is no problem for me. She always was this lighthearted free spirit, it's the woman I fell in love with, she just lost her boundaries.

Also read up on borderline personality disorder. Your wife resembles some of those symptoms.

I agree with this entirely, she has many of the symptoms of it, including impulse control. I think it started after the birth of our first son.

As for your and a lot of other's advice to commit to the divorce in order to regain control of my life, I have commited. She will have papers in front of her shortly.

I won't discount her SAD, because I deal with a mild case. Speaking bluntly, sounds like your wife is bored. (*You* are not boring.) And she needs to get motivated. Find a job. Find an IC. Find some direction in her life.

Ladies_first,

Yes, bored. I agree. Been trying to get her to find healthy ways to be un-boreded (spell check yelled at me for making up that word).

Sisoon says:

My reading is that your W lacks boundaries, and probably the only way for her to build them is some serious IC with building boundaries as her goal. That's the only way I see for her to stop betraying herself and whoever she's partnered with.

^^^^ This.

I also sense that you'd prefer R to D. Is that correct? If so, I encourage you to lay out your requirements for R ASAP, even while you file.

If you both know what your requirements are, you can combat manipulation more easily. That is, you can compare whatever she says or does to the requirements and discount the crap.

Yes sisoon, R is my preference however D is being started. I have already given her the very first requirement and she won't capitulate. Forget OM and go NC. She won't, so D papers are on the way.

Here's something for you to read, If You Love Them, Divorce Them, http://www.survivinginfideltiy.com/forums.asp?tid469167 I hope I copied that correctly as I am copying from one machine to another. I hope it's of some help to you.

Edited to say, cayotes have only attacked and killed one person in recorded history 1900 to now. So next time, keep walking.

Skan,

It is a great article and definitely where I'm at. Thank you! And.....lol

Thank you all.

Current state of affairs:

1. Forging ahead with the D.

2. Avoiding manipulation like some crazy Ninja!

3. 180

4. From what I can see, she's starting to panic, but maybe that's wishful thinking.

5. Content to know that one way or another this will be over soon.

TR

[This message edited by TemporalReset at 9:25 PM, August 1st (Thursday)]

You: You can't go about sharing yourself like this with another man, doing the things you did, taking affection and intimacy away from me and giving it to someone else!

H: Who says?

*sigh* Forging ahead with the divorce is appropriate in this situation.

Just don't mis-interpret her *panic* for remorse.....

*sigh* Forging ahead with the divorce is appropriate in this situation.

Just don't mis-interpret her *panic* for remorse.....

Gonnabe,

I'm not. Thanks. I am becoming more and more aware of what will be necessary to save this marriage and what her words, emotions and actions truly mean. We'll see what happens when I place the papers in front of her.

TR

FWIW, when I placed the D papers in front of Sultan...he called me *controlling*.

Sorry, but, and with all due respect, LOL.

Whatever her reaction it's now the only thing left to do.

Thinking about the sep agreement. I'm creating a pre-divorce finalization section for certain things. What do you think about putting in a requirement for continuing MC?

Not sure.

And edited in one more question...

Since we have no plans at the moment to tell the kids about what is going on, should I just sleep in our bed? I'm now concerned that #1 may start asking why daddy is sleeping in his room all the time. My primary concern over all this is the children. Some discussion before 6am est would be appreciated.

TR

[This message edited by TemporalReset at 11:05 PM, August 1st (Thursday)]

Why do I want her to call right now?

Spending 12 hours at work with not much to do......suuuuuuuuucks.

TR