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Thanks 84. I do want to change and I really think I have been. And I do realize its not something I can really make up for. Just make the changes in myself to be a better person. I do believe once you get past trying to change the past by doing things better...you realize you can't and its not about that. What was...is done. It hurt them. Now what are you going to do for yourself so you don't do it again. I'm really enjoying and liking all the posts. Please keep sharing

I have been rereading 84s post. And the more I do the more it hits home. Abuse is so damaging no matter what form it takes. I do think most people see it as only being physical. But I guess for most of us her its emotional. To be the person that caused and inflected the abuse is heartbreaking. But being truely remoresful is being able to get past yourself again and do the right thing for your spouce. I don't think any of us will ever forget what we have done. I know I won't. Thanks again 84. Your post was amazing. Worth reading over and over.

84s post is really awesome--thanks for writing it.

Reading this thread hit my buttons so hard. It's so insidious and so devastating.

The question was, what to do to heal. The best book I've seen yet is How Can I Forgive You by Janis Abrams Spring. Worth a complete read. The central idea is that to be forgiven, the offender needs to work, to earn it. The hurt party needs to w equivocally see that the offender understands what they did, why it was so harmful, own that harm, and own the responsibility to be sure that it never happens again.

In our M, my husband was honest and conscientious to a fault... Except where it had to do with an issue where I was sad, hurt, upset, frustrated--even if it wasn't about him. Then he totally checked out, and would often lie to cover for it--tell me what he knew I wanted to hear in order to get me off his back, but not follow through.

It took a long confusing time to figure out what was going on, but eventually it became clear that:

My husband would undertake the most difficult, odious jobs with resolution and good cheer... But any problem I myself had (even something like being sad that a friend of mine might have breast cancer) was met with discomfort, disapproval, evasion, stonewalling. I could only conclude that my husband found me worse than odious. He was clearly repulsed by me any time I was emotionally hurt in any way. I questioned this and sought clarification only to be met with further repulsion. I came to know that my "loving" husband found me truly repulsive.

My husband who is almost painfully honest in many important areas (work, money, legalities) would lie and lie and lie to me, and would absolutely refuse accountability unless I labored mightily to make an airtight case that he truly could not refute. I was apparently the sole person in his that he would treat that way. From this I learned that my "loving" husband regarded me with complete disdain.

As I wrote earlier, our physical relationship collapsed entirely. From this I learned that my "loving" husband found me physically repulsive.

I cried in front if him many times to be met with stony silence. Many many times I asked him directly for some care or gesture to relieve my hurt and got no response at all. I showed my pain clearly and learned that my "loving" husband couldn't care less.

The entire time he maintained that he loved me and was incredulous that I wouldn't believe it. For the longest time he would actively evade the point that the above is not the way that loving people behave.

Through lots of IC and MC he now gets it and is mortified to confront how he acted. Lots of FOO work to recognize the emotional neglect he suffered and his own limited capacity and the damage it has done.

As we work to heal, those points above are the ones where we struggle and where he is working hard to assume responsibility. Any inconsistency between word and deed deeply triggers my suspicion that its all just a lie, that he's just doing a more and more elaborate snow job--so being absolutely scrupulous about keeping his word is a huge focus. Any experience of blowing me off is a huge trigger so we focus a lot on that--which does NOT mean I always get my way, but that my POV needs to be explicitly acknowledged and at least considered. Sex is the toughest because I still feel shut out--like he suddenly remembered that it (tmi) feels better to have sex than jerk off, but that doesn't mean he actually wants to make love, he's just excited to have girl parts at his disposal. Like, he will say that his greatest pleasure in having sex is satisfying me--but then he has REALLY ducked honest conversation about our sex life and what's going on with me. If he were really that interested wouldn't he be so eager to find out? I think he wants me to act satisfied and doesn't really care if I am satisfied, if you can see the difference--this is very triggery.

Basically, there can't be too much evidence of reassurance. I'm starting to be convinced that he gets it, or some of it--he starts conversations, he turns toward me when I'm upset, he is very clear about his attraction and desire--but those scars are so deep and it will take a long long time til I really believe it. It took years to get into that mess and it is not going away overnight.

I'm sorry he put you through that. I hope it continues to get better. Reading these posts and thinking back to how I treated my wife has really helped to see how abusive I was in not communicating with her or even listening to her when she tried to talk to me. We have come a long way in that area. But making up for the damage it caused? Another story. I see how I was changed her. Her self esteem. Her confidence in her self and me. Her ability to feel safe with the man she lives with is so damaged. That is what I am working on now. Helping her help herself to gain all that back.

OMG BostonGirl, THAT IS MY LIFE almost, and the parts tht aren't, were. We just had this fight yesterday. I'm hysterical, crying, saying I need some time away to think (and this is the issue I'm crying over)....silence. Cold, dead silence. Everything I say is met with silence, or 1-2 emotionally dead sentences, no matter how much I pour out my heart.

Our sex life was either a combination of him abstaining for very long periods of time (he'd make excuses, put me off, or just fall asleep). At one point, he started making excuses to go to work at about 4:30-5AM which of course meant he'd be passed out by 8:30PM, we maybe had sex F or S (this episode lasted almost two YEARS!) When we did have sex, it was never in the evenings, only around 4AM. He'd wake me up, we'd have 2-4 minutes, then he would either roll right over and go back to sleep, or get up for work. We talked about this the other day. It hurt me sooooo bad that I had been begging to have a life with him, an intimate life, for almost our entire marriage, and he went and had an A! This was a HUGE conversation, he said....I'm sorry, I don't know why I did that....then silence.

At 4AM, I could have been anyone, or no one. At 4AM, it is pitch dark so you never have to worry about eye contact, or foreplay, or touching or holding or ANYTHING intimate. This sums up absolutely everything about my marriage. Every story is the same with different details. I could write TTMU's story almost verbatim, about almost every discussion we've ever had.

(Thankfully, the sex part the past 12 months is much improved, not so much anything else.)

I'm so sorry for anyone living this life. But I also think it's amazing for anyone to recognize that they are doing this, want to change and then do something about it. I'm still waiting for my FWH to want to change... Good for you guys!

As for making it up? You can't exactly, but if she's still by your side, you have a chance every day to be the husband she deserves (and the man YOU deserve to be, for yourself)!