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So - she is basically asking about our future together. For me, her acceptance of my need (and I think my right) to make the decisions necessary for the best interests of my kids is crucial, and so is the

adoption issue.

Ah yes, I remember this story now. It's sounds like you're saying "you have to accept me with kids, living here" and so on. And she's saying "you have to accept that I want these things". And there's no compromise there. She doesn't want what you do. And you don't want what she does. I won't say she's testing you - b/c that's implying a level of manipulation that I doubt - but perhaps subconsciously she is. You've drawn a line in the sand so she's thinking, well why can't I have demands too?

Idk. There's no resolution here unless both of you are willing to give a little. And there's no shame in not being able/willing to do so. But if you aren't (from which it follows that all the compromising winds up on her shoulders), perhaps you need to end the relationship.

Sometimes we talk about timing being off with another person, where the relationship works on compatibility/love levels, but not in the more practical areas of life stages/circumstances. That might be what you've got on your hands here and it's ok to acknowledge it. It's odd to think of breaking up with someone when it's not because of lack of care/love, or something horrific like outright betrayal, but sometimes it's necessary regardless.

To me it just sounds like you two are not compatible. For a number of reasons.

You are going to make your kids a priority. You have to. You are a good dad and you are walking the walk. Adding a "step mom" into their lives is not trivial, and she just doesn't sound like a good fit for you.

You are kid-centered. She is self-centered. You can't pivot and make yourself her-centered. There isn't a way to resolve this.

This...

She even said that I spend more time with my kids that any other separated dad that she knows

...is a big red flag to me.

That should be a compliment, not a complaint.

She doesn't understand and she doesn't get it.

Brandon - this troubles me too. I can't get this comment out of my head. Even if said in the heat of the moment (and lots of things are) - what lies beneath this?

She says that I have made no compromises on our relationship. I have arranged my life so that I prioritise all of my free time (which is limited due to my domestic and professional circumstances) so that I can spend as much of it as possible with her. The cost of that - I have little time for other friends. family etc. If I'm honest that is starting to get more difficult for me.

She does not have these same pressures and still enjoys a full and varied social life. Mine is almost entirely based around our relationship now. Don't get me wrong - that is what I wanted, but there is some compromise there.

She has a big thing right now about where to live - which part of the city. She lives in a different and admittedly nicer area.

Where I live for the next 10 years or so is strongly influenced by where my kids go to school. And this is not a decision I can make unilaterally - the terms of the S agreement are such that major decision regarding the kids and to be made jointly by me and WXW. This is an example of the constraints that I face in my life, and I just don't think she gets it. I think she sees this as me not compromising or considering her needs, when in fact it is that I do not have the flexibility around this that she thinks maybe I do or should.

Frankly she is also talking about all of this - where we might live - BEFORE we have had a serious discussion about living together at all.

For me, I feel unable to make a longer term commitment until I feel confident that we are on the same page and there are so many things here that suggest otherwise to me - her wish to adopt; the extent of my commitment to my children; where we might live; the flexibility of my time.

When we talk, she tends towards anger and frustration and I can understand this. But my views are typically portrayed as wrong, unfair, unreasonable. I don't feel that I want to adopt a child - that's unfair of me. I have strong commitment to my kids and a need to consider their needs above my own - I don't understand how that makes her feel, how hard that is for her. And round and round it goes.

We have been arguing about this for over a year off and on now and it is taking its toll on me and how I feel about our future.

We had a big fight in May during which she told me she was 'dismayed' that I was still not on board with her adoption plans - that I found it difficult to support. Since then I have been feeling less and less confident.

She wants to talk - tonight. I wanted to take some time, but she insisted. I don't know what this will bring, but I am tired of being the bad guy all the time just for sticking up for what I think is right and for being true to myself and the needs of my kids.

Oh, I think she gets the reality of children needing to be a priority. I think she gets it perfectly.

I think it's you who does not get that she is a narcissist who will make a horrible, damaging stepmother to your children, who is actively working to damage your relationship with them. I think it's you who does not get that she wants to be Number One in your life, above your kids. I think it's you who does not see the wolf in sheep's clothing right in front of your eyes.

This ^^^ exactly.

Once you let go of this toxicity you'll feel so much better and free to pursue the life you really want.

A future with someone like this doesn't look all that much fun. For you or your kids.

It really sounds like you guys are simply in two different places in life. Not your fault, not her fault. You cannot FORCE something to work. What you can do is look at it as two adults accepting the relationship isn't going to work, and let go so you can each find something that does. Neither of you should give up something important (your time with family/kids/being an involved Dad...her want to adopt and be a larger priority in someones life).

Caring for someone, but understanding it isn't going to work, is difficult to understand. But, sometimes doing the hard thing is the right thing.

[This message edited by ladies_first at 9:55 AM, August 15th (Thursday)]

As for long term partner we have been together a year and a half and are really only now bringing things together more consistently.

For me, I feel unable to make a longer term commitment until I feel confident that we are on the same page and there are so many things here that suggest otherwise to me - her wish to adopt; the extent of my commitment to my children; where we might live; the flexibility of my time.

At a year and a half, it's reasonable to have the "committment" discussion.

She is entitled to her views; You are entitled to your views. I'm afraid, however, if your views are not similar ... then this relationship needs to end.

She even said that I spend more time with my kids that any other separated dad that she knows....

Good.

Your kiddos are young and you have a long way to go. She sounds like the type that is going to equate them turning 18 as they should be "on their own" and shouldn't need you further. Which is incorrect.

What I am saying is - this problem is not going to go away. They same struggles she has today - will be there in 5 years.

I don't think it has anything to do with her not having children. I dated a guy without children and he was very in tune with what that entailed and never made me feel bad about it (like your SO is).

This is not a kid/relationship issues....it is an SO issue. She has a problem.

I was in your exact situation a month ago, albeit a much shorter relationship. She is showing you who she is, look and listen. It doesn't mesh with your goals as a father. I walked away from a wonderful woman because she just couldn't see that my kids were going to be my priority all the time. It won't be easy, but you are a lucky man to be able to have your kids in your life. Don't compromise that.

We spoke a bit last night and it was tough and exhausting.

We spoke a lot about the issues to do with the kids, her needs, what we each want from life etc and there is more talking to do.

I don't think that this is really that she doesn't want to share or that she is making a big noise about the practical issues. This is new to both of us, and we are trying to find our way but not communicating properly so lots of assumptions etc have been creeping in.

More fundamentally, this may be a relationship issue - how do we really feel about each other? There is some emotional distance between us I feel, like that initial flush of love has not (yet) developed into a deeper, more solid bond. I think she feels this too. We both carry a lot of damage and maybe we are not yet able to open our hearts to this, but in order face all of these other issues - how to negotiate around my family circumstances, her potential but uncertain wish to adopt, work circumstances etc - we need to be on solid ground. I think we both feel that we are not, so for me, and I suspect for her, that is making me feel uncertain about our future together.

She is a wonderful woman, and there is so much between us that is good. But I feel confused about my feelings and this is making me defensive, guarded and putting distance between us. I feel that this is coming more from me than her too, which is making me feel responsible and taking a toll on me.

I was unable to articulate this last night, and it is really only since then (not a great night's sleep!) that I have been able to think in these terms. She was the one that pointed this out insofar as she said that we needed to be solid in our relationship to be able to deal with the rest of it - I think I deflected, turning things back round to the issues I have mentioned above, probably because they are easier and I can hide behind my virtuous role as the dedicated father.

We need to talk more. I need to articulate this to her now and that is not going to be easy. I don't know how this will go, and it could well mean the end of our relationship. That's difficult because this is not a relationship that is broken. Yes we have arguments, and there are unresolved issues, but we still get on very well and have a great time together. Maybe we are putting too much pressure on it and we need to relax more - I don't know. I don't know if that is enough for her.

If we are aren't feeling it enough now, will we ever?

Confused.

For the second time in my life I have taken on a man with children living with us full time. I have none of my own, and whilst my marriage was ending, my biological clock ticking I seriously considered and was about to commit to having a child on my own (sperm donor).

Your kids have to come first in your life, and I would never have fallen in love either with my XWH or my SO if they were the kind of guys whose children did not come first. SO has had a vasectomy, but will outright not consider another child...he has 3, and financially they are a struggle to support (we live in Africa, and have to find school fees of $2400 per month before we even start!) - I get broody, but I would not sacrifice SO and his 3 boys for a child of my own, on my own.

My choice.

She needs to accept that the needs of the children must come first, parental love is unconditional.

You need to decide between you how important the adoption is to her, and whether it is a dealbreaker...or whether you can reconsider.

....I'm sorry...the more I think about this, the more I think she is being manipulative and testing...wanting you to herself, with the kids on the periphery.

I look at it as you should be a package...you and the kids, one deal, no negotiation.

(but that's just me :) )

If we are aren't feeling it enough now, will we ever?

Does a square peg fit in a round hole?

Does a square peg fit in a round hole?

I was thinking this as well.

The thing is she doesn't see you and your kids as a package deal.

^^^This along with Naturegirl's post. She is showing you RIGHT NOW who she is so BELIEVE her. This isn't going to chagne or get better. From one single Dad to another, let her go. Your children always come first and you already know this. There are plenty of wonderful women out there who will love you AND your children just as you are.

We both carry a lot of damage and maybe we are not yet able to open our hearts to this, but in order face all of these other issues - how to negotiate around my family circumstances, her potential but uncertain wish to adopt, work circumstances etc - we need to be on solid ground. I think we both feel that we are not, so for me, and I suspect for her, that is making me feel uncertain about our future together.

She KNEW you were a package deal when you met or very soon after. I think she fully understands what she wants in her future and it's you WITHOUT the kids. Your children are not a tool or pawn in negotiations with your SO. Whether you go watch football on Sunday's with your boys is up for negotiation, whether you spend to much time at work may be a negotiating point, heck whether you do or don't go to church may be a negotiating point but your kids are not and IMO, anyone that doesn't get that wouldn't be for me. I'll compromise on alot of stuff but my kids is where I draw the line.

I wish you the best.

This post really touched me on so many levels. When the A shit hit the fan I was devastated but quite frankly was more devastated for my child. What was this going to mean to her? I may be old fashioned but when the decision was made to have a child for me that meant all bets were off and that child was more important than any crap two adults would ever heap on each other…and I still do. When that egg was fertilized, my perspective, my responsibility and my life was changed. There is no compromise in my mind as to what comes first in the marriage or in the singlehood. I firmly believe you just don’t have children if you can’t handle it, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with not having them hell, I did it for a long time. I still have other things in my life and enjoy my life but my priorities are now with my child…I know from your post that you are a good man and you know exactly what I’m saying.

So, I agree with some of the other guys here that when she commented about the other men not spending as much time with their kids as you and saying it as if there was something wrong with you…that would be more than a red flag for me. That would be as so many like to say in here...next. But, that’s easy for me to say because I’m just going on that part of your post, I obviously don’t know the whole story and she may have just been having a moment…we don’t know on this side of the monitor.

I’m not saying that I believe in a relationship you shouldn’t show respect and love and have as much time with your mate as possible, but no woman is ever going to tell me that she comes before my child…ever. This is something that I would make very clear from the moment the relationship was heating up…I think that would be fair to everyone. Like I said, you sound like a good and caring man…you will do the right thing.

This is why we date.

To find out similarities/differences.

She wants you to up and move your children from the stability of their schools, friends, etc,after their family has just blown up, adopt a child, but not be too involved,

not have a life, but let her have a fun time with her friends. This sounds like a narcissist to me, appearing to be a really nice person, but underneath wanting things to be her way. She is going to devour the "you" in the relationship.

This is one seriously f****ed up bitch.

Run Forest run!!!

[This message edited by homewrecked2011 at 11:27 AM, August 16th (Friday)]

asurvivor - agreed. No-one will come before my kids either. I think I have made clear what my kids mean to me and I don't think SO is any doubt about that. I think what she struggles with is feeling like she doesn't matter AT ALL. This is not the case, and I have tried to make her see that it is not a question of competition, but it does mean flexibility and a whole set of constraints that are new to her. They are not new to me. I have had 10 years to get used to that. She is having to take it all on board at once and I can see that that must be difficult.

On the issue of the quote about spending more time with my kids than others, she did offer an explanation for this and it could well be that its my sensitivity on this issue that led me down a certain path of interpretation. She says she did not mean it as a complaint and in fact was proud of the fact - it was more a way of explaining another point she was making - it was in fact a reasonable explanation.

Thing is, I just don't feel that I can commit my heart fully unless I am comfortable that there is no issue regarding my commitment to the children.

I also cannot commit my heart fully until there is greater clarity over her needs (potential need) to adopt.

She on the other hand wants to know if I am all in on an emotional level i.e. do I love her enough.

Maybe it is round peg square hole, I don't know. What I DO know, and SI peeps please be assured, I will NOT compromise my relationship and the (hard won) time I have with my children for this (or any other) relationship. I simply cannot and will not do that.

This hits very close to home for me. I am mom to 4 kids, XSO never wanted kids. We were friends before he asked me out, he knew my level of commitment to my kids. He loved my kids and was involved in a stepfather role to them-even though we did not live together. XH is a shit dad , XSO was great with my kids. Early in the relationship he stated that he felt he was playing second fiddle to the kids. We talked about it and I thought we had come up with a plan for when the youngest was off to college. A year before she graduated, he told me he was never first in my life ( not true) and he wanted to end it-but he wanted to keep in contact with the kids- because he knows how my XH works. Turns out he was involved with someone else.

Velveteer, It sounds like a lot of miscommunication and assumption is going on by (your own admission) 2 people with damaged hearts and baggage.

Would you both be open to couples counseling ? I wish we had done that earlier in the relationship. Maybe it would have opened my eyes sooner or helped us negotiate the trouble spots better.

Good luck

Hugs,

K