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My WS protected the OM at first too. She would talk about his family or friends like we were talking about the neighbors, or someone we go to church with. She knew what had happened but "so and so is a good kid and has a lot of potential". It was like I became part of some new family unit, one I wanted no part of.

I knew attacking the OM would be pure folly. He was her White Knight and was taking her away from all her troubles... and reality! You can't fight fiction and you can't kill a martyr.

Obfuscation and obliteration was my only solution. I had to make it like the OM did not exist. I did not mention the OM in any way, shape or form for a month or so. I had enough dirt on him to show what his lies really were. The kind of person he really was and not just some charade out of whole cloth. I then dropped all the information I had accumulated about the OM to my WS. She knew it was a fantasy but an addicting one. I then how to show her the addicting agent was toxic. A two time looser with felony convictions. She then did some searching and found out what I said was true. His time in a hospital was really time in prison. As a matter of fact, he got popped by local police again on 08-08-13.

I now treat him like an enemy nation during the Cold War. Try to keep what little intelligence I can maintain but not let it consume my other resources... or me!

Well said Tearsoflove!

My WH never said a bad thing about her post A. He did pre A which makes me wonder why he had the A

Everytime I bring her up he says it brings back all the feelings of the initial days of DDay and he wants to just forget about her.

I guess the main reason I want to hear him say something bad about her is because he would say bad things about me to her with no problem.

Great, to the point questions tearsoflove...very reality-inducing.

I asked my h if he'd think I was a good person if I came home and kissed him with some other guys d$@& on my breath. (Read that here a long time ago) Don't know and don't care if it struck a note with him....I had answered my own question.

My WH did this for months. He even defended her when she had him arrested (she was really drunk, he says). He doesn't do it at all anymore. He knows deep down that she isn't a good person and in that he also recognizes for that period, neither was he. His best friend from childhood even texted him a few months back and said something to the effect of, " I'm really worried about you. You need to get OW out of your life. Ever since she's been in the picture you aren't the person that I know. She's destroyed your life and hurt your family. You need to be with them and get back on track." I think that was a huge 2x4 for him to realize that she just wasn't at all what he thought she was.

Good people do not have affairs with married people.

AMEN, tearsoflove!!!

That sums it up perfectly.

My WH actually said that he doesn't think OW was devious or diabolical. He said she didn't do anything.

Ummm...yeah right. She flirted with him and played heavily on his sympathies. He is so dumb. He doesn't realize that women KNOW THIS SHIT and use it all the time with men. He doesn't like when I say he was played like a fiddle. Why? Because then that would mean he IS dumb. I agree. The reason they defend is to defend their judgement.

Since dday, I have stalked the OW on fb. I have showed him pics of things she has done that are wacky. I cannot even post them here without possibly calling her out because they are so outlandish for a professional women in her 30's.

He has looked at some of the pictures and he doesn't say anything. I think because he realizes what it says about him.

It really hits home that the only thing you know about a person is what they present to you. OW has an alter ego. Frankly, I think he is embarrassed.

Husband said today in MC,

"If I just trash her relentlessly, then you are going to think I have even less integrity than you already do"

That bothers me. If this is all he says about his integrity, he seems to be saying he worries about you perceive his integrity, not about how he perceives himself - and his integrity is an issue for him, not for you. To me, actually being honest is way more important than whether or not someone else thinks I'm honest.

I would feel better about your sitch if he had said something like

"If I just trash her relentlessly, then I will think I have even less integrity than I already do."

My W says it took several months for her to admit she had an A - she knew she did something wrong, but her 'relationship' was special. It took weeks for her to begin to see how manipulative ow was. It took months for her to accept that ow actually blackmailed her.

What my W thought may be different from protecting ow, but I think these ways of thinking are all closely related. If it's a special relationship, not an A, both aps get some exoneration. If ow is a good person, both aps get some exoneration.

My guess is that your is still dodging responsibility for what he's done. Maybe he's slow; maybe he's stuck.

WS did the same thing the first time around. OW made herself out to be a dedicated housewife whose husband was a serial cheater, verbal abuser, control freak. While I can't attest to the last two things, I *can* say they were actually in a open marriage and she had relationships as much as he did. WS had no idea about this and when he found out about it, he secretly thought it was her husband spreading lies about her and he *really knew her* and knew she wouldn't do that sort of thing. He defended her because he felt bad for the "lies" being spread about her and he blamed himself for it all.

It was after he got back with her the second time, asked her about the *lies*, to which, kudos to her, she came clean on and admitted that they did have an open relationship and she did have multiple partners throughout her marriage. WS was floored. He said it made him sick to put himself back into that position with a person he *thought* he knew, but really didn't. To walk away from a spouse who was loyal to someone that was empty. She claimed he was different than the rest. She claimed she fell in love with him and that was the difference and what broke up her marriage. She claimed she did it because her husband did it first and she wanted to reclaim that "wanted" feeling that was lacking. Kudos to her for being truthful to my WS. I think she thought if things were going to work with him, she had to come clean, but by coming clean it woke up WS to how seedy and dirty of a life he made for himself. Thanks OW.

It's just turned from a PA to an EA.

That is all. Perhaps he needs to re-read "not just friends."

Tell him that there can be no contact whatsoever in order for you to feel safe with him.

Everyone -

There is to be no venting about the OP in this forum.

If it continues to be a vent we'll be forced to move it to General.

Thank you.

Yes, I have heard (through the years) words and comments from WSO that are defensive of OW. Rather than feeling

It is beyond irksome.

I now feel it's a sign or red flag that WSO isn't "there" yet. The thought processes that allow defending OP in any way don't seem indicative of accepting the magnitude nor the responsibility of both of their choices.

I understand the "goal" of indifference rather than hate or love and I can see why it's a process. Getting there requires time and effort on the W's end as well as the B's.

I do think WSO is defending himself when he is defending OW. He does blame himself more.

Statements I used to hear: "OW didn't think we were getting along. We weren't living together", etc. That kind of defending is a warning of wayward thinking. OW was no stranger to me and everyone in this community believed WSO and I were a couple.

Then why is he so damn protective of her.

Your FWS may be the defensive type about everything, like WSO. He's making an effort to change that now. Being defensive about OP is not a good time for a W to fall back on defensive coping mechanisms.

There's a big difference in today and D-Day in how he used to defend OW. Reading the printed posts on SI has helped him.

IMO, in some cases, it can take a lot of time to truly understand, accept and believe that your OP was capable of everything that you didn't want to believe about them. And it can take a lot of time to accept responsibility for everything you did to put yourself in this position to have A. If you are being truthful with yourself, there's no reason to defend.

OW was a family friend, she even babysat our kids. During the 3 year A he never had a good thing to say about her. OW was the same about him. She would tell me over and over how she didn't like WH and didn't know I put up with him. Just goes to show you

Cheaters are liars.

My H defended the MCOW, saying she was a good person. I finally snapped and said, she is NOT a good person, she's married and had an affair with a married man, which she is not giving up despite her claims to the contrary.

Well then, said the H, I guess that means I'm not a good person either. Said with heavy sarcasm, and that annoying smirk that means he thinks he's won.

Me, calmly: correct, neither of you is a good person, or at least not as long as you think there was nothing wrong with your "friendship." Glad you figured it out.

(I hope this doesn't count as a vent -- I really did work hard to make it less stabby!)

It really hits home that the only thing you know about a person is what they present to you. OW has an alter ego. Frankly, I think he is embarrassed.

You talking about me, Brokensmile? Sadly, you could be. And learning just how much I allowed myself to be deluded by my xAP (and more importantly myself), when the fog finally cleared, was my JustDesserts...

[This message edited by JustDesserts at 3:31 PM, August 17th (Saturday)]