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I understand. I know I did this to both of us... I will wait for him to feel that I'm trustworthy. He doesn't know that he can trust his instincts as he had NO idea I was fooling around. He didn't feel much of a change in me so he thinks that there is more to it. He has referred to himself as my "steady larry" and that I have my fun elsewhere :( I know he's justified. There are no words to describe my remorse and horror at what Ive done. The thought that he doesn't believe I love him is too much to bare. One day at a time is what will have to be.

[This message edited by babbs at 2:32 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)]

What has been said above helped me. It really helped when my W finally got it – she could understand that only she could see what goes on in her mind. I can only see actions, and her actions gave me good reason not to trust. She understood and demonstrated she understood by taking responsibility for the loss of trust, she read, went to IC and came to accept that her actions, over a long period of time would be required to rebuild that trust. She also understood it changed things in our relationship, that proactive transparency was required.

Ugh these last 4 months feel like an eternity. I can't imagine not being in a better place sooner than later. I'll be patient I'll wait for him... I'm tired and lonely and wish I could at least get an authentic hug from him. Touch is such an important thing for me and I'm starving here. I will not fill this void elsewhere I'm just devastated as well. I miss him so much I miss us the ay we were how uncomplicated our life was. He's typically the funniest guy in the room but these days he's just a shell of his former self. I know I did this to him and it makes the guilt feel even worse. I realize this isn't about me and that he is the one that needs to be nurtured as I'm the A-hole... Still, I need him I need my friend.

(((babbs)))

It's rollercoaster and it takes a lot of time.

Hello babbs,

Thank you for asking your questions. It shows effort on your part and your willingness to at least attempt to make your marriage the way it should have been to begin with.

First,

I cheated on him twice once in the first year the other about 6 years later...that I am a serial cheater. The truth is I'm not.

These statements contradict each other. Perhaps you were trying to say something else as it is obvious there is serial cheating happening here?

Second,

He says he's no longer in love with me.

It is a true feeling at the moment. Feelings change, so there is hope in still saving your marriage and keeping your family together if you are willing to put in tremendous effort and if he is willing to respond to it by not being bitter forever. Recovery takes two to five YEARS in most cases by what I've read.

What would help you believe your spouse is truly trust worthy?

Nothing can guarantee that my WS or any other person on the planet is completely, truly trustworthy. People trust others based on past actions and spoken words, so if someone has a history of stealing and lying, it can be assumed that person will steal and lie again in the future. The past cannot be rewritten; however, the future is not in stone and has yet to be seen. Spouses trust each other as an extension of themselves, so it's almost like being betrayed by yourself when affairs or abuse happens.

What actions can I take to prove to him I love him?

First, walk the walk, don't talk the talk. Anyone can say they will NEVER __________ (insert phase here). Work on yourself to be the person you would want to be married to - assuming you would want to be married to an honest, loving, caring, considerate spouse.

Second, set boundaries - no more friendships with men, acquaintances are fine as long as you keep it as such. If you begin to think you want more from that person, then you must get away from that person as you now know the dire consequences of affairs on marriages.

Third, no more lying EVER about anything to your BS or to yourself. Tell the truth about your childhood, your past relationships, horrible things in the past, what you think now, and what you expect in the future with your BS. No fake orgasms. If something bothers you, say so. Tell your BS the deepest, darkest, craziest secrets you have - whatever they are: drug use, homosexual relationships, criminal records, sexual fantasies, etc. Stop being afraid. It's time to lay all your cards on the table. You have nothing else left to lose and everything to gain by doing so. Do not lie by omission either. If something happens that you know concerns your spouse, it must be told to your spouse. It's not lack of trust ruining his love for you / your marriage. It's lack of HONESTY. Be transparent. Hide nothing.

These same things go for your BS as well.

Also,

I have not and will not speak to or contact AP again.

Was a NC letter approved by your BS and mailed by your BS to your AP?

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[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:42 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)]

Et Tu Brute

Yes I did send a letter that H saw me send to OM. I see how contradictory my first statement was regarding serial cheating. I meant that I never cheated before we were married or even on people I dated prior to DH. After the 1st affair I felt horrible and wasn't planning on doing it again. The second affair was an escape from the mundane reality we were living in. 2 kids 18 months apart feeling overwhelmed PPD yada yada yada all sounds like crap I know but its true. H thinks its about me not wanting him but it was the life I was living I didn't want I wasnt engaging well with my kids I was resentful I was a crappy mom and I knew it. The thing is I didn't know how to want them... it sounds horrible I didn't know how to tell my H I don't like being a mom Im stressed out and Im not attached to DS at all. Once the affair came out and I saw it all being ripped away I woke up. I talked to a therapist I'm on meds and I'm able to focus I was in a state of constant daydream. I'm patient with my babies now and my heart aches to see them . It's different I want to be a great mom a great wife and I'm worried I set it all on fire. I apologize in advance if I come off as defensive I'm truly being transparent here I have no reason to make up anything on this board as it's anonymous. I'm getting defensive:/ it sux to be thought of as a liar when you are bareing your soul to H. This is where my mind was at. When I'd hang out with OM I wasn't the shitty wife and mom I was just another woman and I didn't feel criticized. Granted it wasn't real but it kept me from unraveling at home. I wanted to cut the affair off but I was scared at what would happen to me without the "escape".

It sounds like your BH has detached. It's healthy for him to focus on his own needs.

While he takes the space and time he needs, you focus on healing yourself. You say you need your BH, and you can't imagine not being in a better place soon. Gently, babbs, that's not your decision to make. Steady Larry may decide the M is over. Build up the strength to stand on your own, for yourself and DC. Let go of the outcome and be better for yourself.

Getting defensive when people say we're wrong is human nature. Do you get defensive during conversations with BH?

The second affair was an escape from the mundane reality we were living in. 2 kids 18 months apart feeling overwhelmed PPD yada yada yada all sounds like crap I know but its true. H thinks its about me not wanting him but it was the life I was living I didn't want I wasnt engaging well with my kids I was resentful I was a crappy mom and I knew it. The thing is I didn't know how to want them... it sounds horrible I didn't know how to tell my H I don't like being a mom Im stressed out and Im not attached to DS at all

Very gently here, these are all just circumstances. They did not cause your affair. I have 3 small children. The youngest 2 are 18 months apart. I suffer from mild depression. I find almost no fulfillment in being a SAHM. My H works long hours (70-80/week) and many of those are out of state. The only adult contact I have is with the teachers at my daughter's school and my mother-in-law. I am attention starved (and quality time is my primary love language). However, I have never even thought of an affair as a way to resolve these issues (even before my H had his it just wasn't an option for me). There are deeper issues here. Search for, find and work on fixing those things. That is what I've asked my H to do and the thing that has helped me the most during our first year of recovery.

No I don't he's never said that I have been.

Music mom do you think that it's an excuse I made myself believe? I feel full heartedly that is the reason for the affair.

I was quick to reply but will think about what you said. I truly want to get to the bottom of this.

I guess what I'm saying is those circumstances might have pointed you in that direction, but there are lots of other directions you could have gone (ie - getting the kind of counseling help you are now). Why did you choose an affair instead of something healthier? That's where I would encourage you to start. Speaking as a BS, my H started out with the surface circumstances too and I never felt safe. If he made that choice once, why wouldn't he just make the same choice again when things got hard again. He's found some deeper, very personal, things that allowed him to compartmentalize his life and justify his actions. I'm betting if you are exceedingly honest with yourself (which is HARD) and do some deep digging, you'll realize why you chose an affair instead of one of the many ways to deal with what you didn't like about your life.

No i didn't confess and he did find out everything on his own. I was a mess after he found out I didn't know what to do. I didn't want to lose him. Looking back I should've done that differently but it's done and he was very angry about it. Still comes up.

He isn't angry and it doesn't still come up. At this point, life comes up but the affair is his constant companion. It never goes away. It's in every waking thought and probably dreams (if he can sleep). Anger would probably be an improvement to what he's feeling. He's destroyed.

The first time my ex hit me my world was fractured. The rage, betrayal, disbelief, pain, hurt. I'd find myself talking to him then this almost disassociation would hit as my brain would remind me of the fact I was talking to someone that did something so fucked up like we were cool.

Normally when someone does something like that it's an event. You aren't with them daily, seeing them, eating with them, sleeping with them. You can heal because they're no longer in your life. This is different so on top of the trauma there's an added war that starts with yourself...your core fighting "you" to run!

I'm not telling you this to hurt you. I'm a WS too. A premeditated one at that. I wanted my ex to feel the way your BS feels. Let me just tell you how that worked out. Didn't.

You live your love. You live your remorse. You don't just talk about it. You learn to self sooth. Carry your water. Understand you can not expect anything from him. Any thing he gives you right now will feel like a further betrayal of himself, I'd imagine.

Dig. A huge question would be why didn't you trust your husband? Why didn't you reach out for him when you were struggling? That's what you both signed up for. Right there in the contract. It's not for better and even better. It's, "help, I'm fucking drowning here and need a lifeline".

Ppd is no picnic. Had a friend damn near hospitalized with it. It's no shame. Your body and brain aren't a supporting team. Did you talk to your doctor? We have a responsibility to ourselves and our loved ones to make sure we're healthy. When we see problems we can't just register the check engine light has come on. We need to be on that shit or parts start failing.

It's good he's detached. It's the best thing he can do. Now, get healthy and do what's needed to become a safe partner. He'll see that. Those things are pretty obvious. When sustained over time they're reassuring.

Hang in there.

He knew I was in a bad place in fact he said, "I didn't feel it was my place to tell you that you were being a bad mom" I told him it was... I think we were both in such a bad place stress wise that we didnt know what to do . I think he was hopeful it would go away. My therapist said the affair was a result of my depression and was what I did to feel better. I can't tell you how different I feel now that I'm on an anti depressant. I'm not hoping for a bail out card for this... I am trying to help my H see that it's not due to lack of attraction for him. As he put it he thinks he's not "my cup of tea" You are right I should've done 100 things differently I shouldve gone to my doctor I shouldve screamed from the rooftops that I wasn't well. I wasn't ready to say out loud that I felt having kids was a mistake that I wasn't cut out to be a mom that I was pissed at every decision that had led me to where I was today. I wasn't ready. That's all I can say. I am now today I see my counselor on a regular basis and there are many things that I am looking at about myself that I haven't, ever. I'm never getting in a mess like this again when DH and I separated briefly after all this came to a head I realized what I wanted in life. Im actually secretly glad he threw me out on my ass because I was forced to be alone. I missed him and my babies I didn't sleep I was a nervous wreck. I had panic attacks that made me think I was about to have a heart attack. I've had a change of heart I have I know it sounds nuts and BS but I have. I love DH more than anything and my babies are at the forefront of my life now. I was a piece of crap that didn't deserve the good man I had. I do now and I loved him everyday we were together I was faithful to him more than I "wasn't" if that makes sense. I know I had an affair and that trumps what Im saying about being faithful but I wasn't on a constant prowl I wasn't. Im learning that I don't handle change very well at all and I want to be better for all of us but especially f or myself. I won't lose him I won't that's not an option.

I won't lose him I won't that's not an option.

Actually, it is. Affairs end marriages. They're designed to.

Babbs, him knowing you were in a bad place is not you going to him and asking him for help. I know when my friends and SO are struggling and let then know I'm there but I don't take control of their lives. It's up to them to come to me for what they need.

Sure, the affair is what you did to make you feel better. Why did you choose that way to feel better. Why not something else? A hobby, exercise, climbing, kick boxing, riding. Pain is a very real part of life. How we cope with it is learned. When did you find people fixed pain? What about another fixed you? Those are struggles that need focus.

This is a choice you've made twice. It's more than depression. If you dismiss it and link it to depression how does any of the affirmations in your post make sense? How can you be so certain? You just will choose to never be depressed again?

Where did I learn people fix pain?

I never thought of it like that. I've had a bad childhood it could stem from there. I don't want to keep blaming Im trying to figure this out too.... My parents were neglectful not present violent verbally abusive.... I was married once before to a posessive and jealous guy. I have a revolving door of friends as I retreat as soon as they disappoint me. I don't like being close to people as I feel misunderstood and mistreated.

I have felt misunderstood by H on occassions I feel like I did when I was 10 and told I was a bitch and POS. My mother basically stopped being a mother to me at about that age as I chose to go with my dad instead of her. When they got back together she still hated me and was not available to me as a mother.

The A were men that I felt at the time saw me for the best part of me. The part that wasn't ugly and full of warts. They told me I was sweet and good not defensive and guarded. They said I was fun and lovable. All things I can be when I feel someone has deserved the opportunity to see the real me. Otherwise I have no problem telling people to F off or simply disappear if I feel they see me as my FOO did. Oh wow. Im a hot mess.

Where did I learn people fix pain?

from babbs

I never thought of it like that

I LOVE when people have that moment and are brave enough to write it!

Keep working at this, babbs. Lots of good people here to help you out.

UO - you are soooo good.

My therapist has been working with me to not put so much emphasis on what others think of me. To give freely without wanting/expecting anything in return. I so frequently feel inadequate and rejected. I think the OM were people I used to build me up when I was especially low.