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He ends up yelling at me and turning himself into a victim.

Mine didn't yell/throw-but he would agree with MC that I needed info, only to play martyr and give me nothing. Turned out he was still in A

Topper, I have the VERY, VERY strong feeling that your WH is still hiding a lot of secrets from you.

Sorry-I agree with gonna. He is getting defensive and diverting your attention from the real issue

This is a very stressful time. i'm not saying you aren't right in him needing to be gone...but is he really abusive during such a stressed out time?

I think your WH is just being an immature selfish dick. He's not getting a free pass, so he's taking it out on you. Stunts like ring throwing, saying passive aggressive things like "go find someone who deserves to wear it", all that woe is me shit. Fucker. Woe is him indeed. He cheated. And he wants it rugswept. He wants forgiveness without doing any of the work.

These stunts of his are distraction tactics. Make it about his "instability" and now voila no more A talk, no more talk of your pain, he doesn't have to admit anything else. These tactics are about hiding. He's ashamed. And afraid you'll find out the truth. And this is the easy route out. And if you make him leave? Then he can blame you and not his own actions. If you make him leave, be clear to him why you are doing it. Don't give him a pass. Don't make it about throwing rings. If you leave him, it's because he's a lying sack of shit, not because he engages in diversionary tactics and throws temper tantrums.

Yes, if this type of stuff characterized your M, then it is emotional abuse. But my take is it is him acting out and not abuse in the manner that people usually mean that term.

Please please please listen to the people here. I've been in your shoes, and it's not him that needs help.

YOU NEED HELP!!! You're so worried about him, and fixing him, that you may be losing sight of what's important here.

YOUR SON

YOU

That's it. No one else.

Your WH commited a crime in your marriage, and now he's hurting you and trying to mindfuck you, to take the focus off of him. Don't feel sorry for him! Please don't listen to him right now. Just because he is doing these hurtful controlling things, doesn't make him mentally ill. He's getting angry because he isn't getting his way, and apparently in the past, he's been able to control EVERYTHING. Now, it's falling apart, and he's scrambling. He doesn't care if he hurts you or your son in the process.

I'm not saying he won't benifit from help. What I'm saying is he doesn't want it. And as his victim, you need to get away, along with your son.

Read up on Stolkhom Syndrome (not sure if it's the correct spelling). This IS domestic abuse, and it falls under this syndrome.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh. I'm not meaning to be. It's just I feel like I"m reading my past (with my XH). And I don't want to see another mom and her child/ren be hurt.

Please take care, and be safe!!!

edit: I want to add, threatening to hurt themselves and guilting a spouse into feeling worried for them is all an attempt to get their way. He knows you love him and are worried. He's playing off of whatever he can. Trust me, it's not sincere.

[This message edited by TrulySad at 9:09 AM, October 7th (Monday)]

Worst MC....where he turned every single conversation around to himself. It was a total joke. It was such a joke that at the end he's crying and saying he wants me to recognize the pain HE is in!!!! He said at one point his penance was being away from us for a month and that his penance is watching me suffer. It was like another person speaking when I snapped "I don't give a flying fuck about your penance!" And I don't. Not anymore...I'm so sick of this somehow being about him. Of every conversation turning into a "I'm such a horrible person. I'm a horrible father...I'm a horrible..." like he wants some damn validation of his emotions but doesn't want to validate mine. Aaargh!

I've been in an year long abusive relationship before - the one before I got married (to WH).

It is so hard to see everything clearly until you get out of it, but yes, it read exactly like the one you're in now. The crying 'you need to understand me', yelling...increasing the ante if I didn't just buckle down and take it.

There is a solid part of you that knows it isn't working at all - he's not ready or willing to do the work. I'm with the others, protect your son and yourself. It's scary as heck right now (part of what they do is strip a large part of your self esteem), but it is such a weight off when you're finally free.

I agree with the immature acting out. I've seen it manifest in the same way.

Topper, I think this fool needs to be put out on his ass for a while. 180 him until he either snaps the hell out of his poor, pitiful me act or until you decide what is best your you and lil topper. He needs a cold, hard slap of reality. He's living in an 8 year old's hissy fit and you need the space to grieve and deal in peace.

((Topper)) I know this story, reading your words I realized I could have written them. I am so sorry. I think that recognizing his behavior as manipulative is a huge first step.

My only advice for you would be to stop the MC. My H behaved this way when he was still carrying on with skank and still lying to me, we threw away time and $$ on MC that was worth nothing (even counter-productive and painful) with him still lying. Perhaps you can turn it into IC to help yourself.

I hope you can find the strength you need to deal with his manipulations. I am praying for you and your son. Take care.

E.

Thank you everyone. I am currently looking at my options and trying to make a final decision. He went to IC yesterday and came back acting much different, but I don't know how long that will last. I told him I will not go to the MC again...for now at least...until he keeps up seeing an IC. I am going to add "and until I get a timeline from you" today.

He says he wants to talk to his counselor before he writes out a timeline. I think that is shit.

Edited to add: I can not find any proof he is still in contact with AP. She moved 10 states away with her husband and children and an adopted daughter (who just had a baby and it is now thought the OW H fathered that baby. The daughter is 16!! I am even starting to panic and wonder if H was ever involved with the girl, but I just can't bring myself to even consider that). If WH was continuing the A it would have to be a text/phone/computer thing and so far I have no proof of that as I have access to his phone, his iPad, his computer and he has also offered me to come look at his computer at work.

[This message edited by topperoff22 at 12:37 PM, October 8th (Tuesday)]

He probably wants to see if he can get his IC on board with the idea that "having the details won't be good for you." My FWH tried this--I asked him what the IC meant when he said "details". FWH had no idea. I am pretty sure IC was referring to specific sexual details, not more general details that you would get from a timeline.

I would stand fast on insisting on a timeline--or whatever other information you feel like you need to heal from this. You get to make that call, not your WH or his IC or your MC. You.

He says he wants to talk to his counselor before he writes out a timeline. I think that is shit.

I think it's shit too. *Hoping* is right -- he's gonna run it by his IC so that he can then blame the IC for not writing it out for you.......BTDT.