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I think you hid something big from your wife, and lied to her about it for the whole marriage. I think you both feel that it was a form of betrayal.

I also think that something is up with your BW. You've been doing everything you can to show your commitment, caring and remorse. How could she have no hope? If she really had a close, loving connection with you, how has she cut it off, cold-turkey, for three months plus?

My advice would be to carry on as a poster WH, detach from her reactions and her coldness, and wait and see what happens.

I've quoted some of your past posts below because I think they're relevant, as well as the fact that she did not speak to you for eight weeks following d-day.

My family is not the huggy, feely kind of family and my main love language is physical touch. I crave it from my BW and she has never been the touchy/feely type either. It bothers me and we have even had discussions about it to little or no results.

To hear her say "I don't want your letters and your cards or your so called sweet texts because they are all a bunch of f*!#ing garbage hurts. To hear her say she has no respect for me and that I am not a man but a p*ssy with no balls hurts.

We went out to a movie with her friend and another couple last night. I felt I was invited just to keep the others from asking questions. She would speak to me but was very distant and mainly tried to avoid any contact with me.

Can someone else weigh in here ? I am kind of torn. Part of me wants to treat this like a true affair and give her everything and more but part of me says, yes I screwed up but the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Opinions anyone?

Well, I have weighed in once, but I'll reiterate -

Yes, you screwed up. You lied. But honestly, your wife is taking this to a whole new level. She is behaving as if you had multiple girlfriends, not a secret that she disagrees with.

No, I do not view her as a 'betrayed spouse'. Some will disagree with me, but to me, you didn't cheat. You lied, which cheaters do, but you did NOT cheat. If she were betrayed, there would be an OW, or OM, or multiple OW or OM. There are pictures and video. There was no one giving you anything or any personal communication. You were looking at something your wife does not like. To not speak to you for 8 weeks, and now to treat you like you have committed murder to her parent, well, it's just very strange.

I agree with SailorGirl - I think something else is up with your wife. She is extremely critical, and lacks any compassion or empathy. To assume her life is one open book is absurd. Everyone has something they don't tell other people. Sure, yours was ongoing, and had been discussed, so there is a clear exposed lie (or multiple, depending on how you look at it) but you didn't cheat.

To cheat there has to be at least one person that was reciprocating.

I feel so sorry for you. Your wife is cruel and cold, and doesn't seem to care about anyone but herself. I would worry that one day one of your children will do something she doesn't approve of, and her response will devastate them. Her response is completely overboard.

You seem like a really good guy, and extremely caring and considerate. I cannot believe you have to deal with the judgmental cruelty that your wife is dishing out. It's mind blowing.

Honestly, I think she needs some counseling. I cannot think of anyone - pastor, priest, rabbi, judge, mother in law, child, boss - that would behave the way she is.

I feel sorry for you. You don't deserve the punishment she is throwing your way.

BigIdiot, you will read on this site there is something called wayward thinking. Your posts definitely show wayward thinking.

I've read your posts and to me, something doesn't add up with your story. We are only hearing your version of events and your interpretation of what your BW is saying. You have all the lingo down as far as needing an "Accountability person", talking about shame and pornography, trying to stop but unsuccessfully. These are things that describe an addict, but you are vague about what your issue specifically is. It's soft porn only to say now it is some occasional partially clothed photos that has never escalated in what, a decade of use? I can give you that. That's not how it was for me, but every person is different. And my rock bottom was unfortunately lower than yours by the sounds of things.

IMO, the issue isn't really about porn, as much as people want to focus on that. As you've already said, it's that you lied - period. But you make yourself sound like a victim.

Your BW may be reacting strongly to what you have done possibly because there is more to what you have done that you are not including in your story. It is common for waywards to minimize their behavior. Why else would her IC say it's hopeless?

I'm not suggesting your BW is perfect, but even if your BW is a black and white thinker as she has been described on this thread. So What? This shouldn't be about your wife. It should be about you. Except you have made most of your posts about your BW and how she is reacting. You said recently there are other marital issues that are causing her stress and anxiety and you hid something from her just this week that set her back in her healing. So, other things are going on that could account for her attitude.

IMO, you put all the focus on your BW's behavior and how unreasonable she is being with you. It appears, you've been looking for people to validate your position in this and vilify your BW. Now that you have a couple of people who are giving you what you've been looking to hear, you are starting to run with it.

I feel so sorry for you. Your wife is cruel and cold, and doesn't seem to care about anyone but herself. I would worry that one day one of your children will do something she doesn't approve of, and her response will devastate them. Her response is completely overboard.

You seem like a really good guy, and extremely caring and considerate. I cannot believe you have to deal with the judgmental cruelty that your wife is dishing out. It's mind blowing.

Honestly, I think she needs some counseling. I cannot think of anyone - pastor, priest, rabbi, judge, mother in law, child, boss - that would behave the way she is.

I feel sorry for you. You don't deserve the punishment she is throwing your way.

I find this really disturbing and sickening to read. This is the kind of shit AP's spew.

BigIdiot, here's an opinion from someone with experience I wish I didn't have. If you listen to this validation crap and absorb it and believe it to make yourself feel better, I can guarantee you, you will be back here very soon – and there would be no disputing your label.

Respectfully, painfulpast, nobody here has the right to be the "who hurts more" arbiter, minimize the pain of a BS, or invalidate how someone labels themselves. Read my story, I'm sensitive to that shit because some on SI considered my BH "less betrayed" than others because of our unconventional M.

20Wrongs, well said.

lostmylight,

If you could answer Bigidiot without humiliating the other posters and comparing us to OW's, I would appreciate it.

I did not vilify Bigidiot's BW, but I did take Bigidiot at his word. I guess that made my advice "validation crap" in your eyes.

Bigidiot,

I have experience with critical mothers, and I understand my fWH who lied to me due to shame and denial. But if you aren't being honest to anonymous SI members who are trying to be compassionate and helpful, I'm in over my head.

I thought you were like my remorseful fWH who stopped lying on d-day. I still hope I was right, but I'll let the Waywards answer you from now on. Being lied to when I'm trying to help is a trigger.

No, I do not view her as a 'betrayed spouse'. Some will disagree with me, but to me, you didn't cheat. You lied, which cheaters do, but you did NOT cheat.

Hmm, painfulpast are you his BS? If not, you have no place saying whether his actions were cheating or not cheating. He isn't your WS. These aren't your boundaries. They are hers. And I seriously doubt she would be impressed that you're on here talking smack about her and her "crazy" thinking. What if the tables were reversed? What if people were saying your WS didn't really cheat on you? I'm sure you wouldn't be impressed. And I think if your WS was posting here and was gaining support in the "Iiiiii am not wayward!" corner, you'd be less than thrilled.

FYI, for some people, porn is cheating. For some people, porn is a boundary that does not get crossed. Maybe you don't agree with that but that doesn't mean the other people are crazy. Just different.

lostmylight, epic post. Deserving of the HUFI clapping hands.

BigIdiot, who screwed up here? You. So who's actions do you control? Yours. Who's issues do you fix? Yours.

This isn't a "What the crap is wrong with my crazy BS" forum. It's a "OMG, I'm seriously wayward in my thinking, I need to fix myself" forum. Focus on you, your choices, your screw-ups, your lies. Fix that.

I want to thank everyone who has replied. I wasn't trying to start an argument with my questions but rather find honest opinions pertaining to my situation.

For those of you who have questioned my honesty about the situation, all I can tell you is I am telling you all I know to tell you. I wouldn't come on a forum seeking advice and make up a bunch of non sense if I truly wanted to help my BW which I do. I do realize there are two sides to every story but I'm trying to relay everything my BW has said to me and be upfront about all of my actions. My intention with this thread was to get others thoughts and help me try and make sense of all of this, not to try and validate my thinking.

I will in no way stop trying to comfort my BW and will not try and use anything here against her. As I stated previously, no matter what I believe, I am going to attend to the situation from her point of view because right or wrong that is how she feels and her perception is her reality. I love her dearly and I am going to do everything in my power to make this right in her eyes. I'm simply trying to learn as much as I can to help me and her and I definitely am not trying to validate my thinking so I can turn it on her.

As I said earlier, I don't have a lot of people to talk to about this. I need you guys to help me. Thanks

Sailorgirl, when I read painfulpasts last post, I triggered. It may be hard to understand/believe but waywards trigger too. I stand by my post. I see things differently than I used too.

BigIdiot, while I do feel that painfulpast was attacking your BW's character and she is not a member that we know of to give her side of the story, I will apologize for going to the worst case scenario that you were looking to vilify your wife. However, I still do believe you are minimizing your involvement and putting too much focus on her reactions.

The people who are questioning you to redirect your focus internally, are trying to help you, which in turn, will help your BW and your M.

Part of me wants to treat this like a true affair and give her everything and more

Can you elaborate on this so we can understand better why you are looking to this site for help?

So as an immature teenager I chose to hide that part of my life. As that immature teenager, I didn't think I had a problem, I just thought I was a horny teenager and when when we got serious and got engaged my thinking was it would go away or I would quit looking at it when we got married.

This is good to recognize. IMO the problem is you didn't emotionally mature past the teenager stage. I can relate to that.

Because of this, my BW views our entire marriage as a lie.

My BW was and still is of this opinion as well at times, especially when she is triggering. Lot's of BS feel this way. You may be bothered by this, but you are correct, this is her reality and you need to respect it. You don't need to believe it for yourself and it's not something you can control because it is her opinion. Her history has been re-written by how she feels in the moment. That may change over time.

As far as the porn goes I feel like the weight of the world has been lifted off of me…

The difference is now my problem is out in the open and I do not feel the need to hide it any longer.

This is good. Sharing your shame is liberating. It puts the light on the dark places you've protected for so long.

My IC once asked me if I trusted my BW and I said I did, 100%. She came back with "No you don't" which surprised me. Her reasoning was that if I trusted my wife I would have been honest with her. I could never trust anyone and be intimate as long as I was holding on to my secrets and shame and not being authentic.

My family is not the huggy, feely kind of family and my main love language is physical touch. I crave it from my BW and she has never been the touchy/feely type either.

I have the same situation however, true intimacy comes from being open and honest and sharing, not just the love language of physical touch. I needed to understand that I played a major role in blocking any intimacy in my relationship. IMO you couldn't have a level of mature intimacy because you were not honest with your BW throughout your M.

I'm curious, did your BW really not speak to you for 8 weeks? Not one word?

I'm curious, did your BW really not speak to you for 8 weeks? Not one word?

I apologize if my post triggered you. That was certainly not my intention. There is no stop sign here, and I was posting my thoughts on the story presented, nothing more.

That said, even you, with your final thought, question the BW's behavior in relation to ANY wrongdoing.

If a BW wants to 'punish' the WS with abuse, then the WS should not tolerate that. Abuse for abuse is wrong, in any scenario. Not speaking for 8 weeks, saying brutally cruel comments, and treating 1BI as some kind of monster for , what, 4 months now? That is wrong, period.

My opinion of their situation is mine, not yours or anyone else's. You can insult me if that helps you heal, but it won't affect my feelings.

SailorGirl, thank you.

And finally, another poster, quite different, helped me see that my judgment of the BW's feelings here were not mine to judge. I do feel her reaction is abusive and unhealthy, but her feelings are hers, not mine or anyone else's. and to her, without knowing her, I apologize.

Thank you, kind poster Hope your weekend makes you smile.

That said, even you, with your final thought, question the BW's behavior in relation to ANY wrongdoing.

You are mistaken. My question is very simple and specific to the original poster. It is not up to you to interpret this question.

painfulpast -

Please remember what forum you're in. Post respectfully or refrain from posting in the WS forum until you are farther down the road of healing. Thank you.

BS here, going to give my understanding of your sitch based n my own experience, so remember that YMMV.

BI, when is Dday? Pretty recent, yes? Your wife's anger and lashing out is pretty typical, I think, for having found out so recently about your behavior and lying. I'm not going to pass judgment whether this was a "real" betrayal or "real" infidelity. Not material to your original questions, I think.

Your wife is in a lot of pain. She is going to say hard things to you. She feels betrayed -- she feels she doesn't know who you are. Not surprising that she wouldn't want to be physically intimate. Not surprising that she wouldn't know right this minute whether she will ever want to be intimate with you. How can she know? She doesn't feel she knows *you* any more -- she doesn't want to be intimate with a stranger.

The advice you are getting to work on you, to figure out why you lied for such a long time and what you can do to help you be truthful in the future -- that's good advice to make you a better person, a man with integrity. It may also bring your wife back to you, or it might not. I hope that it does...but it will be hard and take a lot of work.

Good luck to you and to your wife too.

My IC once asked me if I trusted my BW and I said I did, 100%. She came back with "No you don't" which surprised me. Her reasoning was that if I trusted my wife I would have been honest with her. I could never trust anyone and be intimate as long as I was holding on to my secrets and shame and not being authentic.

Lostmylight, that is a very good point. I remember telling my WH that because he could not be honest with me, I felt he did not trust me. To realize that was another dagger in my heart to add to the betrayal. It also partly explained the betrayal.

Big, I suggest you read "Healing the Shame That Binds You", by John Bradshaw. I think you may be dealing with toxic shame.

Furthermore, I realize that what your wife has recently said is hurtful to you and sounds hopeless, but I think it is progress. So far, she has mostly been bottling up her feelings, and keeping you at a distance, but now she is starting to communicate. You would do well to try and listen to what she is saying beneath the anger.

Big, I suggest you read "Healing the Shame That Binds You", by John Bradshaw. I think you may be dealing with toxic shame.

Healing the Shame That Binds is a very good book. It has good insight into the different types of toxic shame and working to understand and overcome them.

[This message edited by lostmylight55 at 11:12 PM, October 28th (Monday)]