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If the OW didn't know my WH was married, I wouldn't blame her either. If she kept pursuing, it would then become an issue. But I can't hate someone who didn't know.

However in my situation they were both married with children and knew it. I will admit to flat out hating her. I hate my husband for what he did, but I do direct more hate towards her. I attribute it to investment and love. I love my husband and am invested in our life. The OW and her life mean nothing to me. I don't need to reconcile any feeling with her. I can hate her for the rest of my life and it doesn't effect my life and family. With WH I have investment. Even if we divorce, he will be in my life for the rest of my life because of the kids. If I hate him, they will see it, and it will effect them. So she does tend to get the brunt of my hatred. Just as I would expect her BS to put all of his hatred on my WS. And I wouldn't blame him at all.

chippednotbroken, I don't think you have anything to apologize for; I think your feelings and perspective are very healthy. I am so sorry for your pain, and I do agree that it is important not to transfer my feelings of anger at my H onto another person. He did this to me. He did. I feel compassion for him, I suppose, because I know him. OW, I don't know. I don't know her 'story', I don't know her 'why'. Maybe if I did, I would feel compassion for her as well. Hurting people hurt people, I guess is the saying.

T/ J @ plainpain

OW, I don't know. I don't know her 'story', I don't know her 'why'. Maybe if I did, I would feel compassion for her as well.

Fuck her and her fucking "story". She fucked a married man, someone elses husband. She is a fucking horse shit person who doesn't give a shit about spouses and children.

she doesn't owe me any more than a car would owe me if my H drove it into a tree and put me and my children into a coma.

This isn't even a good analogy. Cars don't have brains or feelings. There is rule out there. It is called the golden rule. It is "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." If every human being would abide by this rule, well, there would be peace in the world.

How about the analogy of somebody stealing from you. Do they owe you anything? They didn't make vows or promises to you, so with your way of thinking, it would be fine for someone to break into your home and take whatever they wanted, plainpain, because hey, they don't owe you anything. ( if you agree, tell me where you live, I need some new stuff)

I already pretty much expressed that I will hate the OW from my situation forever. (In reality is more like indifference because it is not like I think about her much, or really spend much time wishing misfortunte to come upon her) but I hate the type of person she is and won't apologize for it.

In this thread we have covered several types of situations. While anyone that knowingly cheats with a married person is a rat in my view, based on my own experience, I also agree that if there were multiple OPs, or even prostitutes as in my first M, well, yes, after looking what he did, I had no engergy to really look at any of the individual OPs and what their part may have been. So therefore I guess you could say it was all on him.

And in my current M, the whore went after him, knowing he was very married, and took advantage of the fact his mother and DD had just died. Even this does not "excuse" my H but it does cause me to feel that whore deserves plenty of blame.

And then there are situations in between these two extremes, which I also experienced. My first H also had an EA/PA with a "religious" woman when I was pregnant with our 3rd child. He lied and told her that he was divorced! She got suspicious and called me to find out...and she then got to hear me burst into tears and tell her I was 7 months pregnant! At that point, I didn't blame her at all and was rather glad she called me.

But two weeks after our son was born, they slept together! How disgusting. But even with that, I do not hate her like I hate the one who purposely chased my H, knowing he was married, and everything else. I have no respect for someone who would give in to their own hurt and feelings after finding out they'd be been lied to about whether he was married, but I still have less hatred for that type, than the type who initially chases someone who is married. That's just my experience and perspective on all this.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 9:39 AM, November 1st (Friday)]

I guess I see it more as if someone breaks into my locked out house and plainly steals my stuff yeah I am pissed at them. But if I don't really like my t.v and I leave it on the lawn and someone "steals" it well then there you go. My WH left it out on the lawn and she took it. Not a very good comparison as I also see your point sister.

Ok, no, I don't want you to steal from me. I completely understand what you're saying, and I share your rage, I really do. But my H is a human being, not something I possess. I am not for one minute thinking she is not guilty of crimes against humanity. I guess the car analogy was not great; I just mean that in my marriage, she was irrelevant enough to have been an inanimate object. If I pour out my anger on her, it makes her into a person of relevance. She's not.

(((Chipped))) My last post was directed at plainpain. Different situation than yours. I wouldn't blame an OW who didn't know that my FWH was married, either. I would blame the OW if after finding out that her AP was married kept trying to contact him and continue the affair.

it makes her into a person of relevance. She's not.

That is true, plainpain. Great attitude. Putting that aside, she is equally to blame. You don't have to hate or even have anger towards her, however, I feel you can place equal blame on OW.

my H is a human being, not something I possess.

Yes, in a way I do feel we possess our spouses. They are our spouses. Mine Mine Mine (as seagulls would say ) But, no not in a human being kind of way, we don't own each other.

I don't blame the AP. My WH went looking to cheat on me..it was deliberate and intentional..AP could have been..and was...anyone.

But,I do understand why most BW's are angry with the OW,and place some of the blame at their feet. No,they were not the ones who said vows and made a commitment. But, that doesn't mean an OW is blameless. She is still responsible for her actions. A decent woman does not involve herself with a married man..period.

Each person is responsible for their own actions.

At first I totally blamed the OW in my situation, then I moved onto feeling sorry for her thinking he probably told her a pack of lies about his marital status, and now I am back to equally blaming him and her.

They were coworkers, everyone he works with (small trucking company) KNEW he was married. Another friend of mine that works there was so furious when she found out what he was doing. Others just looked the other way, one guy was even willing to lie for him to help 'protect' him when I found out. There is no way in hell that bitch OW didn't know he was married, even if he lied to her. We are a very small community and its hard to keep stuff like that secret.

The worst - his company hauls their product to my company. She was a skanky truck driver and he was the mechanic. I am safety and very high on the company totem pole for my company. It took ALL of my willpower to not stalk her when she came to my site and find reason to give find her guilty of a safety violation. I took the high road, and decided payback enough was that he was now her problem - dealing with his mood swings, alcoholism, drug addiction, impulsive gambling - all the crap I was standing by trying to get him help for because my vows said 'in sickness and health'. A year now has gone by, we are divorced and they are broken up. I dislike her, she knew we were married but that din't stop her. I hate to say it but I know karma will hit her at some point, what goes around comes around.

SisterMilkshake, thank you. You have reminded me this morning that I sometimes have a problem with 'too much empathy'; I think it is what has caused me to be an enabler in my marriage. I'm still learning to respect my own anger. No, I don't actually care about her 'story', there is no justification for what she has done, and she is a horrible, horrible person.

For the most part, I don't blame the OW either. Especially when I have witnessed again and again how easily he throws them over when he gets caught. He is the one who has found a foolproof way of getting whatever he wants, by telling these women he is "trapped in a loveless marriage for the kids". The whole thing makes me sick. So I definitely can commiserate with them for being fooled by him, for having such a low opinion of their own worth that they take the nothing he gives them and thinks it is something. That said, I do not like them, and I will never be able to say that being with a married man for any reason is okay. I don't respect them, and that is all the energy I am going to waste on them.

SisterMilkshake, thank you. You have reminded me this morning that I sometimes have a problem with 'too much empathy'; I think it is what has caused me to be an enabler in my marriage. I'm still learning to respect my own anger. No, I don't actually care about her 'story', there is no justification for what she has done, and she is a horrible, horrible person.

Bravo plainpain!!

Reading your posts, I thought your words were very familiar, I too have a problem with empathy. Why do I look so hard for an excuse for people's bad behavior?

I too have been told I feel to much empathy. Happens to not be a good attribute in my particular line of work. Funny though I have lost all empathy for my WH. Time to admit that after DDay he attempted suicide in our garage. A friend found him and stopped it. It wasn't the greatest attempt on his part - designed to fail. The horrible thing is I didn't care. She found out and I guess that prompted the email. I just didnt care that he did it. I didn't care that she cared. I'm afraid that all this realization of not caring means I've checked out and I am just waiting for exit sign to appear.

I'm afraid that all this realization of not caring means I've checked out and I am just waiting for exit sign to appear.

When was your last baby born?

((Chippednotbroken)) That is one more expression of so incredibly much selfishness on his part. I don't even have words for that.

Baby was born July 10. DDay was somewhere around the 27th. Attempt was a day or two later. It was very selfish on his part. I think he thought it would make me feel sorry and stop putting his stuff in his car to make him leave.

My WS deliberately went looking as well. He lied and manipulated the OW, but - she did know he was married. She knew from the beginning - yes, she should have stayed away, but she didn't. He told her he was going to leave me but the time was never right - Ha, she had to know that was a lie - but, I guess you believe what you want to believe. He is a good liar - I never knew and he cheated in one way or another for many, many years.

So, no I guess I don't blame the OW, but she is accountable for her actions as well to some extent.

In my case OW knew about me. She stalked and left things hidden in my house. She also blackmailed my fWH. She was trying to steal my life and she has emailed texted me and sent me pics.

Don't get me wrong I hold him 100%accountable. But she's a bunny boiler who took things to a different level. Yeah I hate her and wish her unwell..

She said they had sex and that he said he was divorced with no kids. She called him a piece of shit

If this were all she said, it would make sense, and there would be no real need to blame her.

and asked me how I didn't notice what he was doing. ....... she sent him an email two days later trying to grovel to him- yep the piece of shit.

This second quote sounds like she is blaming you for his A, and that she was willing to be involved with a M man.

She is a typical OW. OP lie. Don't listen to anything she says, in fact, cut her out of your life. Like SMS said, *shrug*